HF Analyst - Looking For 3 Years And Can’t Find A New Job?

Hi all, long time lurker first time poster. I’m a credit analyst at a large-ish ($6bn) HF in NYC. Been there for 5 years after 2 years BB IB. Covering stressed and distressed stuff mainly. Opportunity set has been thin, AuM has been declining, pay stagnant and zero growth opportunities. Same old story.omegle xender

I’ve been seriously looking hard for 3 years now to find another job, and have literally received 0 offers. Have had maybe 2 dozen first rounds, a dozen second/third rounds, 2 case studies and 0 offers. At first, I didn’t have tight enough trade ideas, but I’ve fixed that, having spent hours finessing 3 or 4 current trade ideas that are fully written up and good to go for any interviews. I feel like I can tell they’re good from the feedback I get in the interviews (often the PMs say they’d want to put them on). Having been through so many processes, I generally have good answers to all the obvious stuff, though of course get thrown new stuff every time.

However, I can never quite seem to seal the deal. The feedback varies from you’re too rel Val to you’re not rel val enough to we really want someone with private debt experience to we think you’d get bored here to the most frequent response of all, ghosting from the firm (and sometimes the headhunter too). Quite honestly, I get the sense that there’s something intangible I’m getting wrong - or that the demand is so slack that employers can be super picky and arbitrary (maybe I’m too old, >30).

I don’t expect anyone to divine what I could be doing wrong from the above - but I would be interested in hearing other people’s experiences in looking for mid to senior credit analyst roles. Are other people out there struggling to get offers? If you recently found a new job, how long had you been looking? Any tips on how to improve your game? Any thoughts or experiences would be much appreciated!


 

From the guys I talk to in the distressed space (i) returns have been weak over the last few years, and (ii) a lot of funds lost money in the O&G/shale space and have been cutting people. So in that respect I don't think your lack of success in landing a role is all that unique. The only thing I can think of is that if you are getting interviews and you have good ideas then maybe it's a fit issue and you come across as someone that people don't want to work with. One thing to note is that the distressed space is small so if you've been looking for 3 years I would be surprised if you haven't interviewed with or been shopped to a firm where someone knows your PM. What is your relationship like with your current PM and do you generate good ideas at your current fund or are you an average guy they keep around but don't feel any need to pay or reward?    

 

If it's personality/fit-driven, they're never going to tell you outright. Are you personable, can you handle small talk, no too-weird quirks, etc. We all have a great image of ourselves, but try to be honest with yourself whether your soft skills might be missing?

On the other hand, dont obsess about this either.. you might be 100% fine and it's just a mix of bad luck and tough market.. Personally when I detect someone's not a personal fit, it's typically apparent on round 1 and I dont bother invite them to come back.

 

See, this is the shit that's scary -- you're clearly articulate, intelligent, a good writer and self-aware (you called yourself out for not having tight enough trade ideas, and then you had the tenacity to shore up that weakness)... but after 3 years, you still can't find another HF gig? I love the public markets and would consider pursuing a position in that field, but I've just heard so many times on this web site and anecdotally that HF is such an unstable field and so difficult to sustain a long-term career in that it's driven me to pursue PE

Perhaps (and maybe it's too late) you should reach out to whoever rejected you and ask if they had any feedback as to why you didn't make the cut. Other than that, good luck and I'm sure if you persevere, something will eventually come up.  

 

Yup you’re 100% Correct. The public HF space is god awful in terms of employment stability. This isn’t like the tech space where you can repeatedly jump around and get better offers and opportunities—you might get shafted jumping ship because your next PM is straight garbage. 

 

The worst part is that the people who are in good seats do not move. They are tied to PnL and their seat is as good as any other seat, so there is no reason to move. Plus funds go crazy with the deferred comp plans, so everyone has golden handcuffs.

This problem is more pronounced if your skills are largely fundamental in nature. I've long become more confident in my own path going down a more quant road than a fundamental one, because it's easier to demonstrate your value, your skills, and the importance of your experience. You can't really do that in the fundamental space without a track record, and it's hard to establish a record in most roles which limit your ability to take risk. Even if you do, it's difficult to impossible for a prospective fund to verify said track record.

 

My comment is not defending the HF world because I do think its brutal. That said, PE is not very different in terms of long term career trajectory. In fact, one can argue HF, if you can make it / are at a stable place, is better long term because you can always be an analyst, its not really up or out. In PE very few people move up and unlike in a HF you're likely not going to be a non-partner that lasts, much more up or out. However, the benefits of PE are there are more lateral skills so leaving PE is probably a lot easier than leaving HF land. 

 

How did you find these roles? I have a friend on the sell-side trying to go buy-side that has been encountering similar situations - and found out that PMs have just been using him for idea generation / free work. I would caution you about some of these processes and bozos that try to take advantage of candidates.

Array
 

Stick to headhunters that have a good reputation. Figure out how long a fund has been searching for someone. If it's over a year, that's a red flag.

If you must, apply to jobs from Bloomberg or use the sell side sales people to intro you to new funds and positions. Usually people starting new funds are not going to waste your time as they need to deploy capital and have their own ideas already which is timed with their spin-off. It could still happen but any legit PM won't care what any sell side analyst thinks.

 
Most Helpful

You should have a few headhunters you work with consistently that will give you feedback. Usual suspects but Dynamic types. People that don't suck and have a long track record in the HF space. I get that you may not be in the best space or industry, but HHs are not dumb and they know this before they prioritize your candidacy to their client. Their very livelihood depends on you getting the offer after they flag you as a top candidate. Very rarely do I get a "u should've had this skill or background" type of explanations after the 2nd round. That just means they did a bad job, not you.

FYI I started tracking my 1st rounds in Excel and my ratio is about 6:1 for an offer. As in, out of 6 first round interviews, I'll get 4-5 second rounds, 2 post-technical and case study, and 1 offer. Out of 24 first rounds you should be converting at least 1 offer. I don't think it's your technical abilities, but your second round % rate seems low. Usually the first round is just a shit-test.

You seem like a nice guy so I'm happy to help if you want to DM me.

 

Sorry to hear this has been tough for you. Much like SanityCheck I very strongly recommend quantifying your interview successes / failures in Excel. For me, it acted as a stress management technique. Below are some tips I gathered through tracking this all in Excel 

  • I interviewed for about 2.5 months at did about 20-25 interviews and received 4 offers. So my offer rate was approximately 15-20% conditional on me doing a first round interview. Note of that 2 of these firms were LARGE firms, 1 was a single manager and the other was a PE firm. Generally, I found that multi-managers were FAR more willing to hire than single managers. The single manager offer that I had was with someone that I would literally never work with in a million years. Note that given these odds you need to have a LOT of interview volume in order to ensure a high probability of getting an offer (you should do the math to make sure you are interviewing at enough places). 
  • After many months of recruiting, I received all 4 offers within one week. What's surprising here is the timing. For months, I essentially hated my life and was working 90 hours a week recruiting. I was honestly so stressed and anxious that I vomited in my apartment at least once a day. How could my experience seem so dire and then suddenly I get all these offers all at once? It's because there's really no way to measure merit in an interview, but you still have to find the best candidates. It's a tough decision, so people just copy what everyone else is doing. So, once you get 1 offer, everyone else wants to give you an offer. My best advice is to try to get an offer at somewhere that is not that great first and use that as social proof to get an offer somewhere better. 
  • The other trick is to just not get discouraged. The way I do this is mostly by reminding myself how full of shit most people are. But hey that's just me. After my interview process was over, I went back on LinkedIn a year later and checked my recruiting spreadsheets to see if the funds that rejected me actually hired someone with my background. It seems like ~1/2 of the time, they didn't end up hiring anyone with my background at all!!! I suspect a good portion of these people are essentially fishing for free work. I suspect also that interviewing a lot of candidates serves an important psychological / sociological function for the current employees (it helps them remind themselves just how smart and exclusive they are as a club). 
 

This sounds brutal. You seem to have worked at good firms/brands so something is amiss. If you sucked you'd likely have been let go by now. Maybe your firm has a bad reputation or maybe you're not very personable (though you seem pretty normal from your post). 

What this really highlights in my view is just the ever shrinking seats. The industry is in decline and there are too many people chasing too few seats. Every year there are less and less seats with no shortage of qualified people. 

 

Curious for you (if you know) or generally for others how many seats typically open up / year in this part of the industry? I know it’s sort of a melting ice cube at least for mutual funds (not top quartile).  My view is risk / reward on these positions are awesome but maybe less intellectually honest than HF where if you don’t perform you are finished 

 

Repellendus mollitia quam non facilis eos corporis nam. Illo error sit molestiae quo esse officiis et. Tempora consequuntur vero nobis repudiandae voluptates maiores. Enim magni animi ducimus voluptatem quia. Dolore explicabo accusamus repellat voluptatem. Aspernatur ipsa ipsam placeat quia ducimus et.

Eos et ab magnam fugit repellendus minus. Vero et enim neque rerum vel non molestiae voluptas. Est velit laborum nesciunt distinctio sint sit ex. Aut architecto omnis error quia tempora velit. Sunt qui repudiandae occaecati. Ut excepturi sunt veritatis aut dolorem nulla.

Et sint aliquam est est dolores. Corrupti rerum voluptatibus perspiciatis ut. Quia commodi adipisci aliquam est repellendus corrupti. Ea ratione maiores autem illo.

Ut non pariatur quod soluta quos aut. A asperiores cupiditate asperiores consequatur autem ducimus.

 

Assumenda ut non odit eligendi quia. Beatae debitis suscipit incidunt sint. Sequi consequatur a alias placeat ipsum. Cum non officia quas dolorem doloremque rerum. Ut eaque tenetur facere id possimus. Tempora id quia et dolorem veniam est et. Repudiandae iusto dolorem omnis voluptas rerum recusandae.

Career Advancement Opportunities

March 2024 Hedge Fund

  • Point72 98.9%
  • D.E. Shaw 97.9%
  • Magnetar Capital 96.8%
  • Citadel Investment Group 95.8%
  • AQR Capital Management 94.7%

Overall Employee Satisfaction

March 2024 Hedge Fund

  • Magnetar Capital 98.9%
  • D.E. Shaw 97.8%
  • Blackstone Group 96.8%
  • Two Sigma Investments 95.7%
  • Citadel Investment Group 94.6%

Professional Growth Opportunities

March 2024 Hedge Fund

  • AQR Capital Management 99.0%
  • Point72 97.9%
  • D.E. Shaw 96.9%
  • Citadel Investment Group 95.8%
  • Magnetar Capital 94.8%

Total Avg Compensation

March 2024 Hedge Fund

  • Portfolio Manager (9) $1,648
  • Vice President (23) $474
  • Director/MD (12) $423
  • NA (6) $322
  • 3rd+ Year Associate (24) $287
  • Manager (4) $282
  • Engineer/Quant (71) $274
  • 2nd Year Associate (30) $251
  • 1st Year Associate (73) $190
  • Analysts (225) $179
  • Intern/Summer Associate (22) $131
  • Junior Trader (5) $102
  • Intern/Summer Analyst (249) $85
notes
16 IB Interviews Notes

“... there’s no excuse to not take advantage of the resources out there available to you. Best value for your $ are the...”

Leaderboard

1
redever's picture
redever
99.2
2
Secyh62's picture
Secyh62
99.0
3
Betsy Massar's picture
Betsy Massar
99.0
4
BankonBanking's picture
BankonBanking
99.0
5
dosk17's picture
dosk17
98.9
6
DrApeman's picture
DrApeman
98.9
7
kanon's picture
kanon
98.9
8
CompBanker's picture
CompBanker
98.9
9
GameTheory's picture
GameTheory
98.9
10
Jamoldo's picture
Jamoldo
98.8
success
From 10 rejections to 1 dream investment banking internship

“... I believe it was the single biggest reason why I ended up with an offer...”