You Didn't Get Return Offer -- How's FT recruiting going?

Just curious how many people out there who didn't get the return offer after SA stint are getting traction regarding FT recruiting. And what are you guys doing to gain that traction -- is it networking with alumni, web sites, reaching out to HR at various banks? 

 

dont think it's very possible someone with no return could land a bb/eb/good mm banking job imo. theres many ppl who have returns recruiting for FT now and theres just too few openings overall

 

??? I had 0 relative internship experience and landed a gig doing FT recruiting from non-target and meh GPA. Obviously, this is pre-pandemic, but I'd say it's a battle of attrition and lotta luck involved.

 

Yeah, that's why I was curious -- environment seems bad, but there's clearly a lot of qualified students out there who didn't get return offer for arguably unfair reason, so was just hoping that these candidates still had legitimate shots at getting FT work. Sucks if that's not the case.   

 

that make sense but its just this year is different. with so few spots for full-time this year specifically, it just makes it less likely for employers to take someone with no return over someone who does have one. unless all interns in your group didnt get returns / some crazy case like that (even for jefferies I guess its still 50% of the class who did get returns which is bad but not crazy enough to *fully* justify not getting returns from an employer's perspective), its just unlikely. 

 

Nothing, fuck this. And fuck the next Analyst 2 who comes and here tells me to "man-up" or take "responsibility" whatever that means. Sorry, I didn't have the spoon fed to me my whole life. These guys would be shit dirt if they were in my shoes when they went to school. I dare one of these fuckers to try me right now. 

 

No point wallowing in self pity. Yes, the game might seemed rigged - and to a certain extent it is. And yes, you may have had it much more difficult than most yet they got the offers and you didn't. But focusing on that isn't going to help you get there. Instead, you should be focusing on yourself: what can you do to make yourself a more hireable candidate,  what skills can you hone that you haven't mastered yet, what leads and contacts should you follow that you have not yet?

Hating on other people for "making it" while you haven't won't help your life in the slightest.

 

As a super non-target who landed a gig via FT hiring, I feel for y'all. The deck is stacked and more than ever for FT. But, banks don't care. Being mad doesn't help and often wastes time and puts off contacts.

I recommend getting it all out, beating the shit out of something, getting blackout with your friends, or spending a weekend with the family. Whatever helps you get right. Because, if you get an interview, that anger will come through immediately and torpedo whatever chance you have.

On the bright side, I'd expect FT hiring to be dead before labor day. Keep fighting.

 

MM I interned at gave out no offers. Been networking with a botique and the MM to see if something opens up.

A lot of people I know (including me) look at IB as a stepping stone or a path into a certain career. Whats helped me is looking ahead and thinking about other ways to get into that career.

Personally, Business development/strategy are what I’m interested in, so I’m widening my search. IB is a great place to start but ER, AM, finance for a small startup or business roles at an established company are going to help me learn and grow.

I’m gonna guess most of us don’t truly dream of building DCFs and alligning logos in our sleep. If you put anything close to IB effort towards a different role you’ll stand out and make a name for yourself. Really think about the things you want to do and figure out what you’re open to doing, you’re gonan find a lot more opportunities that way.

 

It’s going terribly. Feels like I’m on a wild goose hunt

 

Pretty badly....I tried to stay hopeful after not getting a return offer, but now I'm losing hope. Got positive reviews before my internship ended and was told I did a great job, then got blindsided with no offer. Seems like everyone who I have managed to get over the phone has said that they will not be doing full-time recruiting, and it is always awkward to say I didn't get a return offer when asked. How has everyone else been explaining not getting an offer when asked? To me, it honestly seems like my bank simply wasn't able to hire because of a headcount issue given the environment, but it seems there is no not-bad way to put this in person.

 

I would try to place the emphasis on your bank continuing to assess headcount needs instead of stating flat-out that you didn't get a return offer. This way, it puts the responsibility on the bank and not faulting you for it. Also see if at the very least your team is willing to vouch for you and corroborate your statements that you performed well and that the no offer was COVID-related.

 

Yeah no other way to put it but it’s gonna be a slow FT recruiting season. Banks have seem to do decent with current levels of staff and for those that have seen increase in activity, it’s more immediate so I’ve seen headhunters active again with more immediate hiring needs. Since no one knows what the environment will be like next summer, I don’t anticipate banks will be too eager to spend a lot of time in FT recruiting. 
 

But don’t lose hope. You have a summer in your belt. Continue to sharpen your skills and when the market gets better, banks will need bright and driven individuals who made the most of this time to become better professionally.

 

lol bit much to say that 4-6 week internships done remote can be considered having a summer under one's belt wouldnt you say mate?

 

The only way to define how I feel right now is by saying that I feel like completely damaged goods. Class of 2020 & 2021 got totally hoed but it’s more or less going to be fine for class of 2022. Not bitter but like what are the freaking odds of this happening 2 months before I graduated and full time offers would be pulled as a result

Really grateful to my alumni who have been extremely helpful, but it’s a drought out there and there’s barely anything to work with in terms of recruiting

 

I know that's how you feel, but fight the feeling to perceive yourself this way. Remain confident and project this in networking/interviews -- that hey, had a good time this summer, learned a lot, they didn't have headcount for normal amount of interns, and here's who you can call for a reference at the firm. Just try to be positive moving forward... and expect that it's going to be hard/take time to land something, but a lot more spaces may open up after new year, when firm's realize "Hey, shit, we're going to be busier than we thought."

 

I've been networking all throughout the summer so definitely a better position than the others here. I also haven't been rejected yet, my group just hasn't gotten back to me about return offers.

 
Most Helpful

There are many entry points to a successful career.  The classic Target > IB SA > IB FT > PE > H/S > PE/HF > Greatness pathway is only one of them.  

The only reason we talk about this pathway so much, is because its the mode.  Y'all remember the mode . . from stats class.  There's the mean and median, and then there's the mode; the data point with the most repetitions.  

If you gather 100 older guys with the baller resume and net worth that you want, you'll find that the vast majority didn't take this classic path.  Probably only like 10 of them did.  But because those 10 guys took this clear path, and the other 90 guys took 90 different paths, this path looks has the illusion of being the only one.  The mode.

My advice: when you learned the mode in stats class, you knew it was some useless shit.  So don't start using it now.  There isn't one path.  If you miss this on ramp, grab one of the next dozen that's coming your way.

 

.

What’s past is past and can’t be undone. It has led to the circumstances we now face. All we can do is recognize our circumstances for what they are and make the best decisions we can, “given the givens.” - Howard Marks
 

Could not have said it better myself! If look up people in your "dream position" such as PE partners or HF PM, you will be surprised by how many started at non-targets or "non-prestigious" jobs. You will also be surprised how many people start at a top BB/EBs and not make it or pursue a less "prestigious" jobs. A career is a marathon. Just because a strong headwind called COVID-19 caused you to run mile 1 in 8 minutes instead of 7 does not put you out of the race.

 

Anyone got any stats on London? I don’t think ANY bank (except GS) opened FT recruitment lol. Only SA 2021 applications being facilitated.

 

I was one of the interns who didn't end up with a return offer. I have managed to land a full-time spot already. I utilized connections via my school and connections of my group from this summer. While some of the banks I talked to aren't doing full-time recruiting, there are still some that have spots.

 

Just off the top of my head: Wells, Harris-Williams, FT Partners, Stephens, Citizens, BlackArch, Truist, GCA. Very wide range, but obviously you have to cast a wide net in the current environment.

 

Sounds like BAML LDN. BAML seemed to have had quite a few off-cycles this year.

If not BAML then MS maybe. Know of a few people who did not convert there.

 

The problem with OC internships in London is that when push comes to shove, banks retreat and prefer to give returns to Summer Interns. This is partly because the "numbers" on the basis of which opinions are formed about offer rates at banks are the summer figures. Not as much to do with performance/fit. As the name suggests, "OFF-cycle"/out of cycle means that the offer rates are not expected to be the usual 90% even in normal times. Granted if you do a stellar job, in normal times large banks will find a way of keeping you but in these kind of a times, I sympathise with off-cycles especially in London - unlike Europe, the primary pipeline in London is the summer route which means OCs can end up becoming the sacrificial lambs.

Until Covid-19 hit I genuinely thought BAML had turned a page by having so many off-cycles and probably thought it was them thinking that it is better to try out people for 3-6 month internships in IB before giving FT offers. But guess what, Covid happened. Had it not happened, assuming satisfactory performance, maybe the summer interns could have suffered.

In London if people do not convert OCs but can provide robust references about Headcount/macro times (from team members) then I/my team are normally fine. 

A lot of hypothesising here, so please take it with tablespoon of salt...

 

Guys, please pray for me. I have a final round for FT. I have had a really hard year and this might be my chance. Wishing everyone good wishes in the FT search.

 

Trying my best not to feel down but so far it looks like things are headed in the opposite direction to the little improvement that had been shown. I am based in LDN and the impending Lockdown 2.0 is not helping. Honestly, feel like despite another support package this time there will even be cuts. Hoping to convert some leads before this happens because otherwise things will be quite bad.

 

Will be honest and say  I don't know how to feel, seriously considering not doing banking and doing something else as it seems the easy route out (for now) since I was never 100% sold on banking post internship (Was in a sweaty group covering an industry I had zero interest in making the classic work-life balance conundrum less palatable).

 

I do not know a single student who has gotten an offer who wasn't given a return this year. Seems to me like the only way to get an offer is to prove that you are superior to all interns they rejected and at par or more impressive than interns who received the return. Got to be the best person in the room. BB's reject interns should try for MM. MM rejects ->regional...

 

Qui et magni ipsum odit et facere culpa. Asperiores qui possimus magni voluptas voluptatum ratione. Facilis repellendus accusantium quam aspernatur.

Facilis aut officiis neque ut ut sed. Eum in rerum neque quasi. Natus accusamus voluptates in. Non libero facilis voluptatem voluptatem officiis. Ex inventore sed omnis ducimus.

Vero rerum et architecto rerum doloribus. Inventore dolorem est reprehenderit veritatis. Illum odio reprehenderit qui unde enim. Quos quia est accusamus qui facere temporibus non sit. Quia eos quia ex maiores optio id. Qui nisi nihil sit qui impedit sed. Quam atque quo reprehenderit eligendi magni.

 

Sunt iure in vel sunt qui dolorem consequatur. Blanditiis sunt nihil voluptatum ipsum alias. Quae eum quo earum nemo. Qui facere eaque maxime nihil dolores ipsam. Recusandae deleniti laborum et et et.

Esse rem harum perspiciatis aliquid. Neque quibusdam voluptatem qui ea sit. Dignissimos et alias sint quam tempore.

Numquam est eum iste doloribus ipsam facere. Quam voluptatem deleniti earum sed. Et velit aut facere ullam quasi deserunt. Vel unde eaque nihil placeat quo.

 

Voluptas consequuntur quos saepe iure quia maxime in exercitationem. Consequuntur et eum numquam et veritatis. Illo qui doloremque ex at quo non. Dolor repellendus qui asperiores rerum.

Nihil consequuntur est suscipit. Quo placeat assumenda repellat. Possimus non nemo sapiente omnis et. Quod sed est tenetur sit error. Et doloremque accusantium et velit dolores ea.

Eveniet tempore quam voluptates ipsum voluptatem illum et. Fuga praesentium ut dolor velit repellendus sint.

 

Alias est distinctio quis error pariatur rerum. Nihil totam et maiores consequatur itaque. Numquam reiciendis repudiandae odio repudiandae tempore unde ipsum doloremque. Repellat molestiae earum similique.

Eveniet doloribus atque accusantium molestiae. Et et modi omnis necessitatibus dicta. Itaque neque dolor et rerum dicta qui. Omnis amet dolores quam perferendis sapiente rem. Consequatur quia odio dolor reprehenderit blanditiis.

Aut explicabo et et placeat ut animi. Enim assumenda ipsa provident atque magnam at esse accusamus. Voluptatem optio et qui. Placeat nemo facere excepturi ipsam omnis. In labore vel cumque doloribus dolores dignissimos dolore. Temporibus reprehenderit eius debitis velit est corporis veniam.

Nihil qui repellendus id est exercitationem et quia. Dolor id praesentium fugiat. Tempore amet et recusandae earum. Ut est ut vero et. Non dolore quidem et provident alias omnis. Est odit cumque rerum quasi et.

 

Commodi consectetur quaerat non odio culpa suscipit id odio. Similique harum rerum doloribus at. Fuga quaerat magnam sint in.

Est aliquam cupiditate id esse impedit sint. Dolores magnam nisi cupiditate nobis natus.

Odit voluptatem omnis sequi a. Numquam quis similique mollitia necessitatibus rerum recusandae. Voluptates ratione corporis quos qui a dolore dolores. Magnam deleniti maiores inventore eius qui illo et.

Quam minus amet itaque qui voluptatibus tempore. Et in dolor et explicabo debitis cupiditate mollitia. Voluptatibus aliquid illum vel blanditiis soluta corporis perferendis dolor. Voluptates tempore commodi et quidem repellat.

Career Advancement Opportunities

March 2024 Investment Banking

  • Jefferies & Company 02 99.4%
  • Goldman Sachs 19 98.8%
  • Harris Williams & Co. (++) 98.3%
  • Lazard Freres 02 97.7%
  • JPMorgan Chase 03 97.1%

Overall Employee Satisfaction

March 2024 Investment Banking

  • Harris Williams & Co. 18 99.4%
  • JPMorgan Chase 10 98.8%
  • Lazard Freres 05 98.3%
  • Morgan Stanley 07 97.7%
  • William Blair 03 97.1%

Professional Growth Opportunities

March 2024 Investment Banking

  • Lazard Freres 01 99.4%
  • Jefferies & Company 02 98.8%
  • Goldman Sachs 17 98.3%
  • Moelis & Company 07 97.7%
  • JPMorgan Chase 05 97.1%

Total Avg Compensation

March 2024 Investment Banking

  • Director/MD (5) $648
  • Vice President (19) $385
  • Associates (86) $261
  • 3rd+ Year Analyst (13) $181
  • Intern/Summer Associate (33) $170
  • 2nd Year Analyst (66) $168
  • 1st Year Analyst (202) $159
  • Intern/Summer Analyst (144) $101
notes
16 IB Interviews Notes

“... there’s no excuse to not take advantage of the resources out there available to you. Best value for your $ are the...”

Leaderboard

success
From 10 rejections to 1 dream investment banking internship

“... I believe it was the single biggest reason why I ended up with an offer...”