Agreed. KKR is probably the most prestigious for people who aren't in the industry. Otherwise, Apollo is probably the most respected by other PE firms.
Haha TPG? Watch them miss their fundraising target this cycle. As for Bain, their "operations" focus really hasn't given them any edge in recent years.
Remind me, what constitutes a mega fund these days....>$80bn AUM? Would hate to embarrass myself at the next WSO circle jerk.
"After you work on Wall Street it’s a choice, would you rather work at McDonalds or on the sell-side? I would choose McDonalds over the sell-side.” - David Tepper
And the fact they have "a bunch of non targets..." means?
"We're not lawyers, we're investment bankers. We just call you for the paperwork. We didn't go to Harvard, we went to Wharton, and we saw you coming a mile away." - Suits
TPG hires a bunch of really smart guys. Carlyle has a bunch of non targets thrown in there.
Carlyle hires some pretty damn smart non-targets and makes some great investment choices. Not sure why the presence of non-target individuals discredits a firm.
If you want to talk about performance...Apollo's funds blows all of the other megafunds out of the water. Plus they pay like $100k more than other megafunds at the associate level.
Also, Carlyle partners V returned like 11%...better than TPG's 6% but nothing to pat yourself on the back about
If you want to talk about performance...Apollo's funds blows all of the other megafunds out of the water. Plus they pay like $100k more than other megafunds at the associate level.
Also, Carlyle partners V returned like 11%...better than TPG's 6% but nothing to pat yourself on the back about
Tough to compare because the vintages don't perfectly match, but for boom-era vintage funds , per Calpers its
Carlyle 13.6% ('05) or 9.4% ('07)
Apollo 7.9% ('06)
KKR 5.6% ('06)
Blackstone 2.7% ('06)
TPG -2.6% ('06)
TPG's '08 fund's not doing much better, despite being raised in what will probably end up being the best performing PE vintage of the past decade
If you want to talk about performance...Apollo's funds blows all of the other megafunds out of the water. Plus they pay like $100k more than other megafunds at the associate level.
Also, Carlyle partners V returned like 11%...better than TPG's 6% but nothing to pat yourself on the back about
Tough to compare because the vintages don't perfectly match, but for boom-era vintage funds , per Calpers its
Carlyle 13.6% ('05) or 9.4% ('07)
Apollo 7.9% ('06) KKR 5.6% ('06) Blackstone 2.7% ('06)
TPG -2.6% ('06)
TPG's '08 fund's not doing much better, despite being raised in what will probably end up being the best performing PE vintage of the past decade
Not sure why you chose to only looked at '06 vintages for the other players but...
Apollo 22% ('08)
TPG 7% ('08)
Bain Cap 11% ('04)
KKR 16% ('03)
TPG 15% ('03)
Also, you said Carlyle's RECENT fund performance blows TPG's out of the water...but 9.4% on an '07 vintage was average at best.
Also, you said Carlyle's RECENT fund performance blows TPG's out of the water...but 9.4% on an '07 vintage was average at best.
Yes, both points can be true at the same time. Not arguing with you there. Carlyle's recent returns have been average at best, and yet they blow TPG's out of the water.
Continuing to take this thread in a more educated direction, can people comment on where they are getting their fund performance numbers from? Not that i doubt you...just would like to look for myself too.
Continuing to take this thread in a more educated direction, can people comment on where they are getting their fund performance numbers from? Not that i doubt you...just would like to look for myself too.
calpers is a good place to start for most of the megafunds. If you have access to preqin that will have a more comprehensive database.
Centerbridge, but that's not true PE in the sense that Associates are staffed across both strategies (distressed PE and public market distressed securities).
I am permanently behind on PMs, it's not personal.
Centerbridge, but that's not true PE in the sense that Associates are staffed across both strategies (distressed PE and public market distressed securities).
Hey this is an old thread man, but Is this still the model? More of a combo PE/HF style role?
When pension fund managers get together to chat with each other about who the best funds are, they are usually saying stuff like "nah, those guys are too fratty ... but then again those guys hire a lot of non-targets, so it's a tough call."
Not the poster but would agree. Pretty incredible returns across funds (consistently top quartile regardless of fund size). Can’t confirm but heard someone say they’ve never once lost money on an investment. Just look at the people they hire, it’s definitely a fund that’s attracting the best and brightest
As someone in industry, definitely KKR, BX, APO. TPG / CG have so many internal problems that few people who are in industry try to lateral there. Would argue within industry that TPG is less respected than most privately held large cap funds, and Carlyle is headed in that direction too. Many of my friends have left TPG / CG to other PE funds (to actually make carry dollars), but my friends who have left KKR / BX go to public equities, rarely to other funds.
Carlyle just laid off their CEO for contentious reasons, many of the partners left (including their only partner in Menlo), and their funds are performing terribly. One of my friends in consumer told me they might completely stop investing in consumer because of how poorly that team has performed. Tech is undifferentiated and they will never be as good at tech as TB / Vista / SLP. Their bread and butter is and always will be A&D. They've been so focused on credit and non-PE assets that they've lost their edge.
TPG has had terrible fundraising because of subpar performance and instead of performing, they launch every ESG fund you can think of to save their relationships with LPs. Everyone is leaving the consumer / IDMC team to private large cap funds that have better fundraising / performance (ie Advent). Burning franchise that hasn't raised a fund as large as it had pre-GFC...even after 15 years.
As someone in industry, definitely KKR, BX, APO. TPG / CG have so many internal problems that few people who are in industry try to lateral there. Would argue within industry that TPG is less respected than most privately held large cap funds, and Carlyle is headed in that direction too. Many of my friends have left TPG / CG to other PE funds (to actually make carry dollars), but my friends who have left KKR / BX go to public equities, rarely to other funds.
Carlyle just laid off their CEO for contentious reasons, many of the partners left (including their only partner in Menlo), and their funds are performing terribly. One of my friends in consumer told me they might completely stop investing in consumer because of how poorly that team has performed. Tech is undifferentiated and they will never be as good at tech as TB / Vista / SLP. Their bread and butter is and always will be A&D. They've been so focused on credit and non-PE assets that they've lost their edge.
TPG has had terrible fundraising because of subpar performance and instead of performing, they launch every ESG fund you can think of to save their relationships with LPs. Everyone is leaving the consumer / IDMC team to private large cap funds that have better fundraising / performance (ie Advent). Burning franchise that hasn't raised a fund as large as it had pre-GFC...even after 15 years.
All excellent points. Would just flag that in PE and to those who care less about undergrads thinking about whether they’re cool (and in particular those who are VP+) Advent, Apollo, H&F, CD&R would be my choice for best funds. Given their history of top tier returns and consistency.
Do you think that people should avoid TPG in recruiting or still worth going for your associate years? Are there any particular groups that are strong?
While H&F and CDR are great funds, you'll probably never get promoted there. CDR promotes 1/20 per year and H&F 1/10 a year (for associates). That said if you're at this type of brand name fund it won't be hard to go to another MF / UMM fund.
1. Solidified 'institutional' asset managers that are clearly real businesses and have built / continue to build real competitive moats (e.g., diversified funds, fee-driven earnings, backward integration to lock in owned-capital) - most likely to still be operating 50 years from now:
BX, KKR, Apollo
Carlyle - basically worse-run, sub-scale version of the above - probably won't disappear anytime soon, but certainly gap between Carlyle and the rest is increasing
2. Strong private equity / investment funds that are very good at their specialty area and have some sort of fly-wheel building (in this case, buyout PE)
Bain - although based more on historical track record than anything else
3. Funds that are basically 1-2 bad funds from disappearing.
Everyone else
Edit: So this is a bit provocative but really think about it - private equity are just like any other business in that it's highly competitive and over time as with any industry, there are very few long-term sustainable winners. What makes PE really hard is that the results are 100% measurable - and at the end of the day, there is virtually nothing proprietary about any of it - it's just people - and people leave, retire, die. Companies like Google, J&J, Costco, Walmart, Coca Cola, McDonalds will far outlive the vast majority of PE funds.
Arguably the dumbest post ive ever seen on this site and that’s saying something, get an offer first. It’s a tough industry and be happy if you can break in at all. over long term risk adjusted comp will be around the same given going to a top firm does not give you a 50%+ chance of promotion to VP when the comp begins to matter anyway
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Privateer Holdings.
Mitt Romney's bain capital.
TPG
^this
KKR and TPG
Megafunds: KKR, Apollo, BX
Non-megafunds: Berkshire Partners, Oaktree
Agreed. KKR is probably the most prestigious for people who aren't in the industry. Otherwise, Apollo is probably the most respected by other PE firms.
Haha TPG? Watch them miss their fundraising target this cycle. As for Bain, their "operations" focus really hasn't given them any edge in recent years.
I might add centerbridge to the list.
Remind me, what constitutes a mega fund these days....>$80bn AUM? Would hate to embarrass myself at the next WSO circle jerk.
Megafunds : KKR, BX, TPG & Bain Capital.
Surprised to see so many people put TPG on their top list and leave Carlyle out...
TPG hires a bunch of really smart guys. Carlyle has a bunch of non targets thrown in there.
A.) Those two things are not mutually exclusive. B.) God forbid someone hires some non-targets.
And the fact they have "a bunch of non targets..." means?
I can tell you get no bitches
That is exactly what I was thinking. Of these three, who else agrees that they should be in this order?
agreed.
Or were we talking about Preftige instead?
Carlye's recent fund performance absolutely blows TPG's out of the water. That's way more important than the schools their associates went to.
If you want to talk about performance...Apollo's funds blows all of the other megafunds out of the water. Plus they pay like $100k more than other megafunds at the associate level.
Also, Carlyle partners V returned like 11%...better than TPG's 6% but nothing to pat yourself on the back about
TPG's classes are way too fratty in my opinion...
Tough to compare because the vintages don't perfectly match, but for boom-era vintage funds , per Calpers its Carlyle 13.6% ('05) or 9.4% ('07) Apollo 7.9% ('06) KKR 5.6% ('06) Blackstone 2.7% ('06) TPG -2.6% ('06)
TPG's '08 fund's not doing much better, despite being raised in what will probably end up being the best performing PE vintage of the past decade
Not sure why you chose to only looked at '06 vintages for the other players but...
Apollo 22% ('08) TPG 7% ('08) Bain Cap 11% ('04) KKR 16% ('03) TPG 15% ('03)
Also, you said Carlyle's RECENT fund performance blows TPG's out of the water...but 9.4% on an '07 vintage was average at best.
Yes, both points can be true at the same time. Not arguing with you there. Carlyle's recent returns have been average at best, and yet they blow TPG's out of the water.
Continuing to take this thread in a more educated direction, can people comment on where they are getting their fund performance numbers from? Not that i doubt you...just would like to look for myself too.
calpers is a good place to start for most of the megafunds. If you have access to preqin that will have a more comprehensive database.
http://www.calpers.ca.gov/index.jsp?bc=/investments/assets/equities/pe/…
~
Apollo
Centerbridge, but that's not true PE in the sense that Associates are staffed across both strategies (distressed PE and public market distressed securities).
Hey this is an old thread man, but Is this still the model? More of a combo PE/HF style role?
For the megafunds, it's Apollo by far. Anyone who says Bain is clearly still in college or banking.
KKR BX Carlyle TPG Apollo Bain Capital Goldman Providence Warburg Pincus Apax Advent Thomas H. Lee Golden Gate / Silver Lake Oaktree
Megafund greater than 20bn
I'm a bit biased but I think it's between Apollo, BX, and KKR
I throw in Carlyle and GSCP and say
/thread
Doesn't really matter between 1-5, but those are on a top tier. Bain isn't what it used to be IMO.
When pension fund managers get together to chat with each other about who the best funds are, they are usually saying stuff like "nah, those guys are too fratty ... but then again those guys hire a lot of non-targets, so it's a tough call."
I find it interesting that these threads generally focus more on fund size/AUM rather than performance.
time to bring this back to the top of the discussion list in honor of on-cycle recruiting kicking off
BX or bust
Hellman & Friedman if you’ve ever actually worked in the industry. Everyone is in awe of them
do you mind elaborating? What sets them / their process apart?
Not the poster but would agree. Pretty incredible returns across funds (consistently top quartile regardless of fund size). Can’t confirm but heard someone say they’ve never once lost money on an investment. Just look at the people they hire, it’s definitely a fund that’s attracting the best and brightest
probably kkr and blackstone
As someone in industry, definitely KKR, BX, APO. TPG / CG have so many internal problems that few people who are in industry try to lateral there. Would argue within industry that TPG is less respected than most privately held large cap funds, and Carlyle is headed in that direction too. Many of my friends have left TPG / CG to other PE funds (to actually make carry dollars), but my friends who have left KKR / BX go to public equities, rarely to other funds.
Carlyle just laid off their CEO for contentious reasons, many of the partners left (including their only partner in Menlo), and their funds are performing terribly. One of my friends in consumer told me they might completely stop investing in consumer because of how poorly that team has performed. Tech is undifferentiated and they will never be as good at tech as TB / Vista / SLP. Their bread and butter is and always will be A&D. They've been so focused on credit and non-PE assets that they've lost their edge.
TPG has had terrible fundraising because of subpar performance and instead of performing, they launch every ESG fund you can think of to save their relationships with LPs. Everyone is leaving the consumer / IDMC team to private large cap funds that have better fundraising / performance (ie Advent). Burning franchise that hasn't raised a fund as large as it had pre-GFC...even after 15 years.
All excellent points. Would just flag that in PE and to those who care less about undergrads thinking about whether they’re cool (and in particular those who are VP+) Advent, Apollo, H&F, CD&R would be my choice for best funds. Given their history of top tier returns and consistency.
Do you think that people should avoid TPG in recruiting or still worth going for your associate years? Are there any particular groups that are strong?
https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20220124005394/en/Accel-KKR-Tops…
Only a couple MFs on this list of top performing funds, and none of them are publicly traded MFs.
While H&F and CDR are great funds, you'll probably never get promoted there. CDR promotes 1/20 per year and H&F 1/10 a year (for associates). That said if you're at this type of brand name fund it won't be hard to go to another MF / UMM fund.
Do you have any thoughts on Bain Capital?
H&F and Warburg Pincus
KKR, BX, Carlyle, TPG, Bain. If you're a MF, you're pretty prestigious by default.
1. Solidified 'institutional' asset managers that are clearly real businesses and have built / continue to build real competitive moats (e.g., diversified funds, fee-driven earnings, backward integration to lock in owned-capital) - most likely to still be operating 50 years from now:
2. Strong private equity / investment funds that are very good at their specialty area and have some sort of fly-wheel building (in this case, buyout PE)
3. Funds that are basically 1-2 bad funds from disappearing.
Edit: So this is a bit provocative but really think about it - private equity are just like any other business in that it's highly competitive and over time as with any industry, there are very few long-term sustainable winners. What makes PE really hard is that the results are 100% measurable - and at the end of the day, there is virtually nothing proprietary about any of it - it's just people - and people leave, retire, die. Companies like Google, J&J, Costco, Walmart, Coca Cola, McDonalds will far outlive the vast majority of PE funds.
Thoughts on TPG?
What's TPG doing that's special / hard to replicate compared to its competitors?
Just for Bain isn't performance pretty subpar for their latest flagship vintage?
Arguably the dumbest post ive ever seen on this site and that’s saying something, get an offer first. It’s a tough industry and be happy if you can break in at all. over long term risk adjusted comp will be around the same given going to a top firm does not give you a 50%+ chance of promotion to VP when the comp begins to matter anyway
Quisquam explicabo quis ut et est omnis atque ut. Et dolorem enim id voluptatem eos iure vero. Facilis in numquam vel exercitationem consequatur. Eum omnis magni libero aut perferendis quisquam. Velit omnis ex dolorum iusto error. Sit eos aut itaque nesciunt.
Quia officiis est quo est amet velit temporibus neque. Ea et ipsum sed sit molestiae. Rerum voluptatum et quo at consectetur vel ea.
Repudiandae ipsum ipsa officia et asperiores sit. Esse est voluptatem deserunt velit est inventore veniam consequatur. Nihil atque voluptatem assumenda sit recusandae maxime quo.
Ut possimus nihil placeat soluta corporis. Maxime minima commodi sunt voluptatibus sequi voluptatum qui. Ut laboriosam sit eius.
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In cupiditate voluptatem a numquam omnis. Autem mollitia ducimus libero et aut sit ullam.
Veritatis omnis quis non et vero consequatur provident impedit. Iusto alias unde provident maxime veritatis. Sit culpa tempora et id. Ipsa qui tenetur doloremque deleniti eaque ex vel. Fugiat est impedit quibusdam.
Fugiat praesentium adipisci provident deserunt id nihil non. Ipsum non possimus optio enim. Explicabo suscipit officiis dolorem labore qui voluptatem ut.
Dicta voluptatem quidem qui. Aliquid sed ut enim. Sint ab quia pariatur non consequatur. Quam ea et explicabo quam nemo provident et. Assumenda cum laudantium harum.