5 Ways To Get Internally Promoted to VP
I am a second year associate in a MO position (primarily risk management although sometimes IBD interfacing). Up until recently, becoming a home-grown VP was almost a certainty, granted you weren't laid off, and had at least 5.5 years of industry experience. Not anymore.
Last year, two out of six associates weren't promoted to VP and less than a year later, they are no longer with the firm (one was laid-off and the other got a new job). The associate class ahead of me is much bigger, and honestly, we're pretty VP heavy as it is. Out of 10 or so associates, not everyone can make VP this year or next. Therefore, we're likely going to see some attrition, whether forced or not. I've also noticed that things have become far more political - at increasingly junior levels.
Based on various advice I've received through the years, I have crafted my five ways to get internally promoted VP on time and I'd like to share them with you. I sincerely hope it works for me - not because I aspire to be a VP in MO long-term, but I think having the distinction well before I'm 30 will be a very strong accomplishment to leverage for future activities. So…here it goes:
1. Never Admit Fault…in writing
Specifically, don't write "I'm sorry" or "Apologies." It shows weakness and a lack of certainty. Everyone makes mistakes, so no need to single out your own. If you do something incorrectly, explain that the previous correspondence had inaccuracies, promptly provide the right answer and keep it moving.
This in fact shows that you are decisive and doesn't draw direct attention to a perceived weakness in your performance (whether it be accurate or not). In an environment where you're not directly contributing to the P&L of the firm, the amount of "skill" and "talent" you have relative to your peers is debatable, so don't give haters (and potential haters) anything to work with.
2. Manage Up of Course…But Also Manage Down
Maintaining a strong working relationship with your analysts is key. If your analysts want to work with you, others will take note of your effective leadership skills and the plain fact that you must not be that big of a douchebag. Analyst perceptions of you are important and honestly, you were likely one only a few years ago. You probably should attempt to keep a healthy distance (i.e. don't be their drinking buddy), but relating to them/assuring them that "it does get better" can help when you leave at 7pm and they're pulling all-nighters.
How do you know you're doing this effectively? They ask you to write their performance review.
3. Actually Act Like a VP and Not a Glorified Analyst
The easiest way to make VP is to be doing VP level work. All scoffing aside (because we all know some VPs are more useful than others), this generally means making decisions and escalating meaningful issues upward instead of data crunching and analysis. As an associate, you tend to do 70% number crunching, 30% other stuff, and you should try to skew those percentages somewhat to a 50%/50% by your third year.
How do you know you're doing this effectively? Forge relationships with managers who care about your career and development (because ultimately it makes them look good too), and look for opportunities to work independently and make effective decisions - hopefully to people more senior than you are.
4. Don't Be Buddies With Everyone
If you are…people WILL notice (and eventually talk about) your annoying habits. If you love to go drinking and you do stupid stuff in front of your co-workers, you will get a reputation. These considerations do come up around promotion time.
In non-revenue producing divisions, promotions are just as much a function of what you contribute as it is about perception. If you are perceived negatively or people think you don't care about the job first and foremost, you may just be skipped over for VP. Better to not come up on the radar for your social antics or have EVERYONE have a personal anecdote about how (insert adjective here) you are. Keep the mystery alive.
5. Take Ownership
Personal story: some of my senior bosses resigned this year. I am in an awkward position because I am too junior to take senior coverage on some of the higher profile accounts/clients, but I also know more about the names than the junior VP and more senior associate on the team. I am a strong performer and you can bet I have expressed my interest in become senior coverage on those names I have historically covered.
While my request may not be met (I am only a second year associate after all and the names were covered by Director-Level VPs), the fact that I am willing to step up will probably get me recognized as someone who is not afraid of the unfamiliar. In short, don't be afraid to be a leader. If I do get ownership of those names/accounts next year, the likelihood of me being VP will increase ten-fold. Because quite simply, I'll have VP level work and responsibilities. In a world where politics are rearing their ugly head more frequently, you have to make opportunity as well as a platform for yourself.
That's about all I have. Not sure if "kissing ass" should be part of my top 5, but if it really is super important, then I'm totally screwed.
The easiest way to making VP is to kiss a lot of ass, but in a smooth and delicate way, so the ass owners don't consciously realize that their asses are being kissed because you want something in return, but rather because their asses just deserve being kissed because they're so nice and plump and you're perceptive enough to notice that and take the logical action.
Kissing ass will not get you anywhere. If you get promoted from ass kissing, essentially you had just became that person's bitch with a nice title. No real work or respect will be given to you by getting promoted that way.
I think you are right on with your 5 points, but I am a bit worry about the first point you made about never admit fault. You are right that haters can use it against you, but it can easily backfire as saying that you are not flexible to reflect on your own issues. Worst is that the haters will use this attitude against you once they find the mistakes and you are adamant on refusing to admit fault. The key to admitting fault is not just to apologize, but to have a fix or already fixed the issue when you apologize. This shows a great amount of maturity and talent.
I deal with clients daily and my MO and BO people fuck up all the time, but I don't throw them under the bus for it. The way I handle my clients and MDs are first acknowledge the issue and then get the MO/BO guys to come up with a fix and then relay the fix with a simple apology. This is my experience being in a FO role.
I think you should just be honest and reflect on both your faults and strengths. That garners so much respect.
It's saying you're confident that one is perfect, but that you have value.
VP promotion (Originally Posted: 04/27/2007)
I'd just like to know how difficult it's to be promoted to VP from associate ? What's the average time to get from 1st year associate to 1st year VP ? I'm not talking about the superstar here, just under normal situations. Is it only a small percent of associates get promoted to VP or is it a sorta guranteed raise for as long as u stay in the business for long enough ? Thanks.
any comments ? Just curious
Getting to associote is a piece of cake compared to any other rank. To reach assoc you really just have do your job for 2 - 3 years.
Getting to VP is a different kettle of fish, you need more senior guys to put you forward for this position. It cna take any length of time, I think at a minimum its another 3 years perhaps.
But it really depends on office politics.
So what's the percentage of associates actually promoted to VP eventually regardless of the years spent in the firm ? 50 ? 25 ? or even less ? Thanks.
At my firm and at at many others I have met those that started at analyst and have progressed to associate then VP. analyst 2 years, Associate 2-3 years then VP, it's down to luck and timing also. Seems like some places just hand out positions.
one guy at my firm was an associate for just over a year and his VP left so got promoted. I think at times it is just a title. Another VP at my firm worked in one division as an analyst and associate and with little knowledge moved into a VP role elsewhere in the firm. Associates probably know more about the division then he does. I thought maybe he has just been given a title and salary for the time he has put in or knows the MD and will train like an associate. He infact got brought upto speed in a year and then moved to a Bulge Bracket firm into a VP position. So the experience he gained must have been good enough if a BB firm took him on.
So I think if you can convince the right people and are good there is a good chance you get to VP level. But that could be the sticking point as I hear after that it can take sometime to get to MD. Some are never promoted.
Is that true that most associates never advance to VP ?
I haven't been long around enough to tell. But it seems like a lot do... then again I wouldn't know anything about the US or its competitiveness.
random99 raises an interesting point. In Australia, a lot of BBs are very short of staff themselves, which makes promotion easier I suppose.
If im starting off in buy-side and work for 3 years, go to Bschool for 2 more years. I'll be 30 by the time i'm out of MBA.Is that too late to be an associate at BB or any firm ?
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