Late Bloomer - Advice to prepare for a future in banking.
Hey everyone,
I'm looking for advice on how to get prepared for a role in banking. As the title suggests, I'm not one of those people who knew that IB was something they wanted to get into as soon as they started undergrad and has done all the traditional steps (internships, 4.0, etc.)
My background is an Economics degree with a certificate in business from Queen's and have a 3.3 cgpa, but no relevant internships/experience. I really didn't know what I wanted to do with my career throughout university and honestly only settled on finance in the last year or so. None of my work experience is finance related, but I can spin my resume to at least show upwards mobility (labourer to foreman) and leadership experience (multiple years as a camp counsellor, each year increasing in scope and responsibility.)
Now looking at this, and looking at all the resources I've read about what banks look for, there's a pretty big discrepancy. I know that it is a long shot and will require me busting my ass off with networking. I figure that my only shot is to actually learn how to model, become highly proficient in excel/ppt, and build a pitch deck so that if I ever do get the chance to sit down with someone, I can prove that I am at least competent in that regard.
I've looked online and figure I can take a WSO or BIWS course to learn modelling and excel, and I have some old CFA study material where I can brush up on the accounting information and a few other things. What else can I do in order to actually learn the skills necessary to do the job? I also know that jumping straight into IB may be impossible and so I also have my sights set on trying to get into corporate banking. I need all the help I can get - especially in regards to relevant courses/resources I can use to learn how to build a pitch deck and/or different career paths/entry points into finance. Any advice would be greatly appreciated!
3.3 cGPA is pretty weak - you're going to have to network through alumni to have a chance.
Any recommendations on resources I can use to help prepare specifically for learning the practical skills necessary?
Honestly you’re facing a massive uphill battle. The GPA alone would be a challenge but no internships (relevant or not) is going to be very hard to explain. From speaking with recruiters the first thing they would ask is what internships I had completed prior. If you’re still in school I would suggest entering every case comp and stock pitch comp possible, getting any finance internship you can and network like crazy. If you’re already graduated I think you should just focus on getting a job in finance, doesn’t matter where but preferably in FP&A or some other corporate finance role with some transferable skills. The modelling ability and pitchbook making is great and all but nobody’s going to care about that unless you get in the door to a case interview or land an offer. Maybe if you’ve passed CFA level 1 you can add that to your resume to show you have some interest in finance.
Queens is a great school but that’s a low gpa for banking and it’s already hard enough to get IB spots in Canada
I would go Deloitte, massive GMAT to grad school and recruit for IB
Yea I know it would be a long shot/impossible so while I won't just give up ill definitely keep an eye out for other ways to keep a foot in the door. Thanks for the responses!
When you say you want to be in IB, what does that mean? Big 5? Boutique? What scale of boutique, if so?
Given the fact I'm starting my career late and that IB is an incredibly competitive field, it doesn't matter. I recognize that getting a job as an IBD analyst at a big 5 is extremely unlikely, and so I'd be pretty much willing to go anywhere and do whatever department would have me so long as I'm getting a foot in the door and experience. I'm also finding it pretty difficult to find in depth information about all of the different possible roles that fall under the umbrella of "IB," but I know I have a particular interest in the different types of M&A strategies and how/when they're used, as well as how investment banks use capital markets in order to facilitate financial services for businesses.
First off, good job on taking the first step towards your goals and asking for advice on this forum. There are a lot of trolls on here, but there are also some very helpful people as well, so keep a close eye on that difference.
Introduction
To begin, the journey you are embarking on is not going to be easy and you will be facing an uphill battle, but I do believe you can make it with enough effort and time.
Now, to assess your situation. Honestly, the main problems are that you have no relevant work experience and a poor GPA in a non-target program. However, you do have the Queen's brand name on your resume, and thereby have access to the Queen's alumni network. This will be key in your future efforts. Given that you can't change your educational background right now or your GPA, we can only move forward with what we have.
To add onto that, taking the CFA and learning modelling and pitch decks extremely in depth, to be honest will be a waste of your time. Your time will be much better spent networking with alumni aggresively and learn the technicals required for interviews on the side so you are prepared for any interviews you get. Learning how to construct stock pitches and pitch decks will help with cold emails a bit, and general practice, but won't be tested in interview settings.
Now, I see 3 main pathways for you.
1. Work in a related field and move up the ladder over time
What I mean by this is starting in something somewhat related to high finance, like Commercial Banking, Asset Management, or even Audit. Get your foot in the door at a larger organization that rewards upward mobility. I have seen a bunch of people start at the Big 4 in Audit and then move into Transaction Services / Deal Advisory teams after two years networking internally, then make the jump to Investment Banking after 3 - 4 years. Additionally, I have seen people go from Commercial Banking to Corporate Banking to Middle-Market Investment Banking to Global Investment Banking. For the Audit route, you would have to begin to pursue your CPA, but at least doing that will give you some job security in the meanwhile while you pursue IB.
Essentially, this route will require you to move up the ladder and make strategic career switches every 1 - 2 years, and in 3 - 4 years time I think you can break into IB. There are probably at least a couple of Queen's alum who have done this, most probably starting in Accounting and going from there.
2. Start at a boutique firm
Given the Queen's name and the presence of alumni across Bay Street, I believe with enough aggressive networking and conveying your story, you may be able to get a spot at a boutique finance firm. I am talking family offices, small M&A shops, little asset managers in like Hamilton, Ontario, etc. To execute on this, I would look up every small firm in the Greater Toronto Area and beyond, even in other provinces, and be open to moving anywhere to get experience. Then, once you have compiled a list, reach out to the Queen's alumni first with a clean cold email, clearly explaining your interest, your story and why you are the right person for the job. Even if they tell you they're not hiring, still speak with them and get a rapport going, so that they can refer you to others in the industry or keep you top of mind for any future opportunities that come up.
As well, this is where you could flex your technical knowledge by attaching a stock pitch you've done or a sample pitch deck you have completed. This can definitely show your acumen, but won't be a make or break factor in getting an interview I think. From there, you will just have to email like crazy. Track every email you send out in an Excel spreadsheet and see what is getting you hits and what's not. Then, make sure you follow up with all of your contacts periodically (say every 3 - 6 months), keeping them updated on your progress and the steps you've taken towards achieving your goals.
I believe if you do this and reach out to enough people, it is guaranteed at least one place will take a shot on you. From there, do very good work at the firm and build up your transaction experience. Even if it's asset management or something, show the prospective investments you have sourced, anything you can do to demonstrate your acumen. After working at the boutique firm for 1 - 2 years, you can definitely make the jump to Middle Market IB and after 1 - 2 years there, you can jump to the Big 5.
Another thing to note with this route, is use ANY PERSONAL CONNECTIONS you may have. I know a guy who got his job in IB because he met a guy in a university party and he casually mentioned his interest in IB and that guy he met was able to refer him to his first IB gig out of school. If you have any friends or family in the industry, reach out to them as the success rate will certainly be higher than just straight cold emails en masse.
3. Go to graduate school
Now, this is a valid option as well, but you have to be strategic about it. I definitely would not go to graduate school anytime in the next 1 - 3 years. Any graduate program that accepts you with no work experience is gonna be pretty trash. What you want to do is get any job you can, given your situation, maybe something in Corporate Finance or FP&A, and work there for 2 - 3+ years. Then, work very hard on studying for the GMAT and any relevant admissions tests to offset your poor GPA and get into a graduate program with a track record of sending people into IB.
This last sentence is very important, because the vast majority of Master's programs in Canada are dog shit and will not get you a placement. Mainly I am talking about these bullshit MSc or MMA programs. You want to look for programs where students are able to land Summer Associate roles at the Big 5 consistently. One program that comes to mind is Rotman's MFE program. I would try to target that one. I am generally not super aware of masters programs that are worthwhile so make sure to do your research and speak to alumni. I have a buddy in the MFE program at Western and he is telling me that half his class couldn't get a summer placement, so make of that what you will.
More generally though, Master's programs in Canada are pretty shit for IB recruiting in general, and if you can afford it (and somehow squeeze by with your GPA), US Masters programs would be more bang for your buck. I have seen guys from schools like McMaster go to MFin programs in the US and end up with BB jobs in the US for their full time roles. Either way, it will be costly and is something you can look at in total 5 years down the line, so would try the other options above first.
Conclusion
Overall, as I mentioned, this will be an uphill battle for you and you will probably hear many naysayers. The Queen's alum you talk to will probably be 95% Commerce students who will have no idea what it's like to be in your shoes in a non-target program, but don't listen to their doubts and just connect with them as much as possible. As someone also on a more unconventional pathway, I have had more than a handful of people tell me I have no shot of breaking in, but I have kept pushing for the past 2 years, and although I haven't broken in yet, I know my time will come soon enough with enough work. Best of luck!
Thank you so much for the detailed response, it's much appreciated!
Alright I’m going to clear the air here as many say that it’s impossible due to your low gpa.
I have a low gpa and broke into banking. My gpa was lower than yours albeit I went to a target program but I did need to lateral because my grades weren’t good enough + wasn’t interviewing well during undergrad.
Your grades are not the killer here. Honestly, I have been barely asked on the street to provide my transcript (I am a lateral hire so may be different for you) but once you graduate they don’t really assess you on grades they focus on how well you do during the process.
For you, getting in the process will be an up hill battle. Canada is a joke for IB, it’s literally a tiny village out of Italy. It’s so damn competitive that some Big five processes (Scotia P&U and Desjardins I’m talking about you) are opting to interview the entire world. There are thousands of candidates available who are “good enough” for the job but literally can’t get a job because there’s not enough available. It’s literally a joke. Private equity here will not exist anymore so people just stay in IB so it’s extremely difficult to get a job in IB.
What do I recommend for you? If you’re just graduating, apply for UFT MFE, UWO MFE, or McGill Masters in finance. You can have a reset and one more year with recruitment.
But what I will recommend you to do is get the fuck out of Canada and do an MBA in the US. Since the US has more private equity opportunities analysts will leave after their 2 years. They won’t leave unless they get burnt out. Banks also love mbas there and you can try in a bigger and broader market.
I have friends who couldn’t cut it in Canada who had shit grades but crushed it in the US.
TL;DR Canada is a joke. The big five is as competitive here as getting into a BB in the US. If Canadians didn’t have visa issues they would put Americans on food stamps. Go to the US and do an MBA there, get out of Canada it’s not growing.
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