Having kids in PE
At what age/level did you start having kids? How did this impact the velocity at which you were growing your savings/net worth? Do you regret it? Do you feel like this career is too demanding to be a good parent? Curious peoples thoughts.
Maybe I have no business commenting as I am still child-free, but it's definitely been something that has been talked about many times between my wife and I. I'm only very recently married, and I am behind the curve on that age-wise for most of my friends. I turned 32 in November - I'd say the median age for tying the knot (purely in my social circle and what I've witnessed) probably hovers in the 28-29 range. While in the past I would have been flustered about this, I can obviously say I wouldn't have wanted it any other way.
Now, there's that. I've known for a long time that I want to be a Dad, and our tentative plan is to see what the next 3-5 years hold. I've accepted a fantastic job offer out in Austin, and she got her firm to approve a transfer, so come June we'll be headed down there. Maybe once we're settled and I can get into a rhythm job-wise (as well as her) we'll explore. But timing is always important, as well as realistically managing expectations and deciding what we want to get out of raising a child - how can we best utilize our resources to do that?
The truth is simple - we could not maintain our current lifestyles with a kiddo. That's obvious - I leave the apartment around 6:45a M-F, and am usually not home until 6:30p or so. She's gone by 7:45, home by 5 or 5:30. We could go for the nanny route, but there are a bunch of logistical, financial, and emotional considerations for that one as well. She's been promoted to Vice President at her job; doesn't seem like she wants to stop anytime soon, and I don't blame her! I was recently promoted to AVP and hope that a formal VP role comes soon. None of us want to slow down the trajectory, but we also don't want to be absent in the raising of our son or daughter.
However, who knows what the future will hold? The older I become, the less I value the typical things I once did, such as accumulating a higher bank account number, throwing up a new header on my LinkedIn, or reaping a new return in the market. I care about the time that I spend with my wife, my friends, my dog, and my parents. That's what is important to me, and I suspect it would exponentially increase as I continue to grow and evolve. To be honest, if it made sense, I have no reservations to step back and raise a child or two while my wife pays the bills. Our combined net worth at the moment could have us set up very well for years to come - we're both fortunate and grateful for being able to say that.
Will be following this thread to see if any other folks in the PE space who have some tenure in this department can provide any insight. It's a constant question that I grapple with, and think it will all come down to timing. Life will continue to move on, however, wherever it may take me. I'm optimistic for my future and that of those around me. Raising a child will be a more tremendous success than closing any kind of deal - I just hope I'm up for the challenge.
32 for a man getting married is now late? Your finance circle must be completely different to mine hahaa, hardly know any this age in the profession that are actually married, few may have long-time partners but haven’t actually tied the knot yet. Marriage is daunting man, I’ll push that as far out as I can.
Ha! Yeah, seems most of my friends and/or coworkers found the 28-29 range as standard. Could be with rising rental or mortgage costs, access to social and dating apps that let you find people easier, or anything else. When I was younger, I was seeing friends tie the knot as early as age 25 - didn't want to go that route, but always something that was lingering in the back of my mind anxiety-wise.
However, you're spot-on about the daunting factor. As happy as I am, it was really nerve-wracking for me. I can barely commit to planning a week's trip - much less a life partner! The nerves are normal and will always be there. Not that you need any advice, but my only two cents is that you'll know you've found the one when you've found 'em. I don't understand how it works, but I know that it does. Three months in, no divorce yet! Going as well as it can hahahah
It all depends. I'm 31. My friends are 26-34 and not a single one is married. Neither am I. But then again we choose friends similar to us. All but one is single and just continuing to play the field in nyc.
"The older I become, the less I value the typical things I once did, such as accumulating a higher bank account number, throwing up a new header on my LinkedIn, or reaping a new return in the market. I care about the time that I spend with my wife, my friends, my dog, and my parents. That's what is important to me, and I suspect it would exponentially increase as I continue to grow and evolve."
Rings so true for me. I'm slightly younger and also don't have kids yet, but I really don't care about like owning a Lambo, flying private all the time, collecting watches, etc. Would it be nice? Sure, but not something I'm prioritizing in any way really.
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Wouldn't your PE partner badger you to NOT have kids, so you wouldn't take parental leave and be more dedicated to the job?
Jk, congrats on the baby's one year
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Not me but at the fund I am at it seems ~35ish is the age, so probably Principal / Investment Director level.
Guess it depends what part of the market also. I feel like European mid-market it is common and do-able. But can see it being hard in UMM+
My boss is late 40s/early 50s and has 4 or 5 kids ranging from toddler to high school. No idea how he manages it seeing as he was a mid-level banker at a BB then sector head at a MF when he would've been having most of them, I would've thought the time commitment is too insane but he makes it work. I imagine having a stay-at-home wife is pretty much the only way such a thing is possible but from what I understand his wife had a career of her own at some point as well.
I’m at a HF but I imagine you are more concerned about people with certain hours than the specific industry. I waited until I was 35. Both my spouse and I work. It hasn’t impacted my job at all (except I draw stronger lines on when I’m available, and I’ll work after my kid goes to sleep if I still have work to do). That being said, I waited until I was senior at my firm and had more control over my time. I do worry that if I had a kid sooner that I would have negatively impacted my career (unable to control my time, people not giving me certain types of work, being seen as “unresponsive” if I don’t reply quickly because I’m with my kid, etc)
Other things:
1) we have a very helpful family with a lot of flexibility so they were around a lot to help early on
2) we have a nanny who works about 50-55 hrs a week. People have their own opinions on a nanny, I have found it incredible. And since I still work from home many days I see my kid a lot (always do breakfast, dinner, baths, bedtime, and occasionally can get away for a library visit or similar)
3) your life changes. There are many positive changes (have a child you love, see them grow, etc) and some that are just difficult depending on what you are like (much less flexibility to your plans and they are tiring). So the last minute dinners with your partner or spontaneous trips are gone. And the weekends are filled with stuff for the kid (or alternating watching them while the other has stuff to do) and it can be tiring.
I’m very happy we have a kid and also happy we waited until this age, but others have pretty different experiences.
edit: to answer some more specifics
1) they cost money but it hasn’t impacted our life in any meaningful way (financially) but we both have high paying jobs so probably unfair to use as a data point
2) I don’t think this career is too demanding to be a good parent. I think quality over quantity. And you can still get a decent amount of quantity in. I can go into this a lot more, but I’ve seen terrible parents who are around their kids all the time (but not engaged, not caring, etc) and those that have limited time but have a great relationship with their kids.
A bunch of my colleagues in their 30s have kids, I think tho that you have to realize a kid is part of your personal life ONLY. What I mean is that I deal with ppl ranking above me in seniority who realize the kids are theirs, and they draw a line between work and personal life (ie, they don’t take on you the frustration from not sleeping, various concerns, etc.), but I also deal with superiors who can easily get overstressed and it’s quite annoying.. if you’re the second type of person, I’d wait until you’re senior enough otherwise your career can be impacted
I definitely had children earlier than most people in PE or those living in in tier 1 cities and working in front office finance / consulting roles.
Had my first one as an associate age 25. She is now 4 years old. Both my wife and myself work in PE. She has a more flexible job and can leave at 4pm to pick her up from nursery. I usually work until 6-7pm (i am not in direct PE, more SWF co-invest type of job) so I generally see my daughter in the morning and before she goes to bed depending on when I am home (bed time is 7.30pm). Working remotely has been great because I can do drop off / pick up and spend more time with her. When she has gone to bed I can finish off what I need to or be on calls. All of my seniors have kids so usually calls do not happen between 6.30pm and 8pm unless it is something urgent. People are usually quite respectful.
Have zero regrets about having my first one at 25. In fact, a second one is coming soon and we could not be happier. I do not want to be a 40 year old dad changing diapers. By the time I am 40 I will be able to have a lot more freedom in terms of the type of holidays we go to and the activities that I can with my kids (playing sports, doing safaris, road trips - stuff that you would not do with a toddler). And by the time I am 45 kids will be in uni / latter stages of high school - i.e. I am basically done and can do whatever you want.
One important point about having kids this early is that most parents of other children in our daughter’s class are like 10/15 years older than us or in a different stage of their lives / careers. Make sure you have friends with kids that you can hang out with. We were very lucky as a few of our close friends also had kids at the same time so that makes it much easier.
Gotta have kids folks
Interested in how people structure their days with kids at the early VP levels. Are you able to afford nannys in NYC?
Not sure on the structure of the days (as I said above at a HF and different level) but as for nanny in NYC the cost for an “ok” one is ~$18-22/ hr (with 1.5x for overtime) on top of that if you pay through payroll (I.e. the legal way to do things where you deduct taxes and pay employer taxes) you have the employer taxes, unemployment insurance, most also require you cover a subway card if they need to come in from far away, holiday bonus, and of course at your discretion if you want them to travel with you.
We basically pay a salary which comes out to $25/hr (where she works 50-55 hrs a week). All in (with taxes, subway card, bonus) we paid about $85k this year (out of pocket, just over $6k goes to taxes)
The quality of nannys varies significantly (as can the costs). I have friends where the nanny does the bare minimum and has no flexibility to their scheduled. And others were the nanny is constantly going above and beyond (cleaning the apt, dishes, laundry, staying late nights and not charging you for it, buying the kid and family gifts, etc). They can truly be incredible, and I consider ours part of the family. She is amazing with our child and our child is thrilled to see her everyday.
I'm surprised rates are that cheap in NYC. From what I've seen in LA, going rates much more like 25-30 - and like you said can only go up from there. While optically not a big difference those dollars on an hourly basis add up. Plus gotta give 2 weeks paid vacation and all the other things you mentioned. Most people I know are doing it under the table too...so that's all tax free dollars for them. Basically nanny's are making more than teachers, albiet dont have the benefits and career track.
We have an amazing nanny- asked our daughter to be her flower girl in her wedding. Really is family.
$21 an hour and absolutely worth it. We pay under the table.
Getting an Au Pair is another popular option and cheaper if you have the space for it.
I'm London-based so this is probably not exactly what you are looking for, but maybe gives an idea. We have a one year old baby at home and I work in PE, my partner is a software engineer. The software engineering gig is a more relaxed job and allows for more flexibility, so I do less of the childcare with the slack taken up by my partner (who regularly works max 40h a week).
I am not sure how to advise you if both of you have high flying jobs with 24/7 availability needs - I've seen it done (e.g. Catherine Petty at CVC is a great role model), but this usually means 1x person from the couple takes the foot off the pedal at least temporarily (3-5 years usually) or you rely on staff 24/7 (live in nanny / au pair).
Nanny vs. daycare
We were deciding between daycare and nanny for a while but we're happy to have found an awesome one. Daycares have 2 major downsides / 1 of those debatable. The biggest issue is that they won't accept the kid if they're ill, which is a problem as for the past 2 months our baby has been ill 2-3x, each time 2-3 days. Someone needs to be home with the kid while they're ill, so that's a big problem.
The second issue is more of a debatable point, but just as I was preparing to sign the docs for daycare, I read research stating that these environments are loud/end up being stressful for very young children towards the end of the day, which has the potential to lead to behavioural issues later in life. To be honest this isn't something I'd swear by, but it scared me enough not to send the kid to daycare quite yet (he'll be in a few hours a day pretty soon for socialization though).
Our schedule is basically:
The obvious downside of having a nanny is the cost. The poster above has better quotes for you on NYC prices, but in London I've seen between £35k and £50k p.a. (assuming you pay via contract, which we do). Generally expect to pay £10 per hour under the table at least, unless you are recruiting from a specific pool (e.g. an immigrant who speaks your native language, but not English). Nannies here get 20+ vacation days too.
I spend time with my kid every day 7 am to 8:30 am per the schedule above, and we also do as much as we can together over the weekends. However, this can get derailed massively if I am in the final execution stages of a deal, when it is 24/7 availability - in which case partner takes the slack.
imagine giving up your own children for slave wage promotions from your boss, who would replace you in a moment's notice if you dropped dead tomorrow. there is nothing more important in this mortal realm than having children. i would rather be dirt poor surrounded by 10 children than a billionaire with no children.
Only chiming in to say what it took me a few years to come to understand: There is NO good time to have kids, so have them early. You will never, ever, feel 100% "ready" and that's ok.
Is my life more hectic because I have a kid? Of course. But you can never go back in time. If you're married to the right person, you'll make anything work. Go check on surveys of people whose biggest regret is often starting a family too late / not having more kids.
I don't want this to come across preachy, I just know I was in your shoes for many years (i.e., should I wait to VP? What about once my wife gets the next promotion? What about once we move into a townhouse instead of an apartment?). You make it work and if the absolute worst case scenario is that you or your spouse adjust their careers accordingly, I can assure you that's the right move in the long run.
This.
Don't rush a relationship for the sake of kids...but if you've been together a long time...and delaying just to delay (especially for a career, which will be fine regardless)...I completely agree just do it the earlier the better. You will have way more energy in the brutal early years and then when they are older. Not to mention you'll be way younger when they eventually move on to college. I have a few friends in very long relationships that waited for the sake of delaying and after they fact were like man should have done this sooner, basically got a couple more vacations and nights out at bars wasn't worth it. Its just easier being a new parent the younger you are, within reason of course (for example early 30s vs late 30s). If it happens later due to personal circumstance, not being in the right relationship, etc, of course that's fine too. But again, delaying just to delay within in a relationship tends to come with a tad bit of regret in hindsight.
I'm curious how you guys are able to find time for sleep (8 hrs) and staying healthy (gym time). I'd imagine there's no room for anything else in your day. Feel like I'd go insane basically waking up and going through the routine of taking care of kids/work/working out/getting sufficient sleep. And I doubt I'd be able to get sufficient sleep/working out time. Does no one else feel like a robot at that point just going through your day constantly stressed about kids and work?
It’s been real hard the past 4 months… Also curious what other people do, tbh I’ve had very little time to look after myself and I do need to carve out some slots for gym.
My kid is one and I am still struggling with this. The week is a crapshoot, I try and go on Saturday and Sunday. If I finish up at a decent hour, I will try and get to the gym before work but haven't been very successful.
In the beginning any free time I had I was spending with my kid but quickly realized it wasn't sustainable and I was driving myself crazy. So on the weekends my wife and I will trade off time slots or we take my kid to the daycare at the gym.
You have a few choices. 1) you bail on your wife a lot, which I feel too guilty doing with any form of consistency especially after working all day, 2) you become one of those crazies that wakes up at like 430-5am, 3) you have a home gym and sneak in more micro workouts.
You're right in that's a pretty crazy switch to go for living for you to living for someone else. But that's parenting, very brutal at times.
Just doesn't seem like a sustainable lifestyle for most people. Feel like I'm too human to be thinking about work 16 hrs/day, without a chance to relax and re-charge.
You need an easily accessible home option. We have a peloton that I ride weekdays in the morning (530am).
That's tough because I need a gym with full weights. Seems like the work really doesn't allow for much time for anything else (family time, seeing friends, golfing, etc.). But I guess that's where the pay incentivizes.
KKR is pretty anti-family, so if you’re looking to have kids pre-Principal, would recommend other PE funds
Think it’s most megafunds. Hard to find people below mid-level VP / Principals with kids.
Are you sure you don’t mean pre-Director? Principal at KKR is the post-MBA role so your still grinding quite hard and don’t have much control over time. The people I know who had kids and work there waited until Director or (more commonly) MD
Instead of nanny, why not do daycare? Its much cheaper, and the hours at 730am-6pm.
There is emotional value to having your kids at home with someone you trust especially when they are young. On days I WFH, I still get to do bedtime routine / hang out with them a little in the morning.
why the fuk are we having kids to ship them off 7am-6pm daily?
If you are your partner prioritize working high-paying full time jobs over staying home to raise your children you are what is wrong with America today.
I'm sorry what? My wife wants to work, not stay at home all day, and I support that.
I also prefer that our child is in daycare, in my opinion they get more social interaction and structured learning.
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