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Thanks for the mention. It’s 100% become more active. But I can’t really say much more than that because I don’t really have any data to back it up. Anecdotally, I think it has (or I’ve just been more active). Curious what the stats from WSO on the real estate forum look like.
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Probably because RE has been more institutionalized these past couple of years. Bound to attract more WSO types.
There's been a bit of a jump from the big IB exodus and related fears from current students but I wouldn't say that it is something that would modify the job field. Most of the short-term interest I assume will fade as another opportunity arises and those that aren't that deadset on RE will phase-out.
I think poro is right in that the broad and better msm reported institutionalization of re is driving the greater interest factor in folks coming out of grad/under grad.
But I think the industries reputation for relatively lower pay and a much greater density of “very lean and mean” (euphemism) shops leading to reputation that pay is generally low until you surmount that “0 - 8 years experience” level threshold, will keep the industry from being seen at the same wavelength of cool light as HF/PE/IB, etcetera.
It is still an industry that grossly favours and rewards the entrepreneur (and not everyone is cut out or situationally positioned for that type of life).
This is my hottish take and would be interested in other observations (since my thesis gets weaker yearly if/as more re centric institutions enter fray and offer commensurate rank+file positions and commensurate pay with their trad-finance counterparts and it remains well publicized ).
Re-fintech and other (many and growing) tech related re aspects (the next 5-10 years will be illuminating) interject an interesting x-factor into this discussion as well.
Low pay really depends and is bc real estate is very broad comparing working in banking but RE could be debt fund, PE, leasing, appraisal, management, developer, broker etc (comp range here is fairly low to on par with PE etc). You can’t compare RE (100s of roles) to banking (~1 role). If we wanna talk apples to apples, youre comping REPE, “brand name” debt / equity funds to PE/PC etc and comp is generally inline and with better hours (maybe ppl finalize see this which could be the pop too)… also for sure the institutionalization, agreed.
To be very clear, this "reputation for relatively lower pay" is ONLY relative to some very top tier levels of IB/PE/HF type gigs. To the other 99% of the world that never visits WSO, real estate is seen as extremely high pay. So, if you legit think you want and have a shot at a job at BX direct from UG, you may be inclined to see the bulk of RE as "lower paid", but if your average job possibility out of UG is something like financial analyst at Ford Motor Company, getting a job as an analyst/associate on a major CBRE leasing team seems like a big win. It's all relative, and what is "norm" on WSO is shockingly skewed IMHO.
as someone with a host of experience, what white space do you see in RE fintech and RE-related tech / proptech?
Thanks for the shoutout latinbanker, so as to the WSO real estate forum, I am a relative newcomer. I really didn't get "active" until the start of covid and found myself without a schedule dominated by air travel and/or commuting in/out of NYC. With some that recovered time (in between video calls), I started to respond to posts on WSO and have had fun doing so! So, I can't really comment on the history of WSO real estate forum as any guide to real estate "coolness".
I discovered it while in UG back in early 00s, and there were many like me, the markets were very "hot" and a lot of people were interested in real estate. The 08-GFC hit, and a lot lost their jobs (true in IB as well), some went off to do other stuff and never came back (a friend of mine who was an IS broker who left has been working corp fin for a major military contractor as an example). When real estate started hiring again around 2012 or so, people seemed to come back as needed.
So, I think it's just "cyclical" and real estate has had a good up swing since 2014 and it doesn't even seem covid did much to reverse this. The other major trend is the continuing "institutionalization" of commercial real estate. This keeps happening, and major asset managers take bigger and bigger stakes in more and more markets and asset classes (the SFH as asset is the extreme proof of this). This all leads to more "institutional" jobs in real estate, and thus more kids with fancier degrees wanting to work in CRE. Frankly, back in the 00s.... the term "REPE" was not a thing, that's a really recent trend. The big "winners" of capital (and thus jobs) shift from time to time.
CRE you have been active on this forum a lot longer, any takes?
I think the key has been me becoming less active ;)
Honestly though, the forum activity reflects the status of the industry as a whole. Real estate has “grown up” in the world of finance during this cycle and has become infinitely more institutionalized as massive amounts of money flow through it and white shoe firms continue to increase their involvement. I’m sure you can find 8-10 year old posts from me on this site contemplating whether or not I could make it in the world of IB or PE. Now? I wouldn’t even consider it.
There are also a terrifically diverse set of personality types, roles, firms, asset classes, etc. that are all “front office” and all count as “making it” in Real Estate, which leads to less gatekeeping in general. Brokerage, acquisitions, development, portfolio management, and even real estate company corporate leadership are all real endgame jobs, at companies large and small, brand name and names you’ve never heard of. Financial wizards from Harvard and former college athletes who “slap a 4 cap on it” while playing golf coexist in the same environment and both have their legitimate place in the industry (and make tons of money doing it).
Finally - and I have experienced this more times in this industry than I can count - real estate is a very mentor-friendly atmosphere. Everyone who is anyone got to where they are because a handful of people went to bat for them in ways big and small, from well-connected daddies to random executives who you cold called, there is a culture in real estate (that I’m sure is in no way a reflection of ego…) of helping out the next generation. I have been personally helped by people who by all rights could have turned their nose up and ignored me forever, by people who are now my good friends, and by people on this site. In turn, I post here when I can, respond to DMs when I think my advice is worthwhile, talk to people from my alma mater and push their resumes around, and always make a point of helping out my company’s interns as much as I can.
The fact that people like redever and others are around and prolific now and I don’t even get tagged in these posts by the OP makes me happy. This forum has always been WSO’s secret gem and I’m glad to see its activity increasing.
This is some wholesome shit. Love it. There is a lot of wisdom to be found around here for sure.
This is so true! And something very different from most of corporate/finance culture. It's why this industry seems so "small", you legit meet and know people from all over in a short amount of time (that is if you are out networking and are open to connecting). I think early experiences of people being helpful made me stay attracted to this industry at an early age (like early college). I am just old enough to have go through that before this website launched, I was on it when considering IB during grad school (it was called Ibankingoasis then I think, and not sure the real estate forum existed tbh). What's crazy (and I hope people realize this), is that you can get even more help by just joining groups like ULI or NAIOP and the like! No reason to be intimidated!
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