Female 27, 2nd thoughts during MBA

Hey, I’m not a women so not sure I can help much besides saying I’m wishing you the best and I hope all is well and good luck. I am aware of people and women who have moved from high power finance/consulting into more creative type industries like beauty and art and the like. I’m happy to try to write / help more but not sure if you want my help and/or if there is anything else I can do. Either way, best wishes and good luck again :)

Have you considered going into Brand Management or Product Marketing at a CPG company? What about Corporate Finance at a well-known F500 with a strong track record of developing and nurturing their finance talent?

To be honest, I don't know if this is the right forum to ask this question. You sound like someone who is driven by the goal of having a successful career, but doesn't necessarily want to be consumed by it. The people on this forum will naturally sway towards the latter, whether they want to admit it or not.

Take a step back and think about the many career fields out there that can, and will, provide you with - reasonable - levels of challenge and plenty of opportunities to learn and grow while also cultivating long-term earnings potential. You're only 27, which means you have more of your career ahead of you than the number of years you've been alive, so far. You don't have to find the "set path" right away.

Im not a female but this hit home, I’m sure other men feel the same way(not trying to take anything away from the females). I believe the person you’re trying to prove your worth too, as corny as it sounds, is yourself. I come from very humble beginnings and was in a similar situation, albeit to a lesser extent. When you make it to Wall St, everyone will acknowledge how hard the journey must have been. Even the radicals that swear big banks are evil will admit that the people who make it there are indeed talented. “Badge of Honor” is fitting title for cracking the code and getting in these firms.

My input is:

No matter how much propaganda you absorb, the fact is, jobs on Wall Street are tough, and time consuming (life consuming really). The idea that you’ll be different because you’re aware of the reality of Wall Street is pretty naive in thinking. However, I truly believe there are some people , many people even, that find fulfillment in working in the industry. No matter which path you choose, you’ll always wonder what’s on the other side of the fence.

As for your spiritual awakening or quarter life crisis (which is a real thing I can relate to) , it’s great you’re having it now instead of later in life. I know it’s a difficult time, and I hope me being a male doesn’t come off as mansplaining, but really I understand the deep feeling of….emptiness, purposelessness? It’s kind of hard to put into words right? And of course you’re grateful for the opportunity, but what’s left after all the accolades from your peers are gone? There’s absolutely nothing wrong with chasing a life full of pure happiness instead of prestige driven happiness, often times people would rather be around the former. I want to make it clear though that there is NOTHING wrong with leaving the industry (or not trying to rule the world) , and there is NOTHING wrong with staying in it. The great part is that you already proved that you can do it , you have the freedom of choice.

You’ll sleep easier now knowing whichever life you choose will be one of your own volition.

I think coming from humble beginnings really makes you want to prove that you’re just as capable as any, and everyone else. I’m sure being a female compounded that feeling too. Be proud of the person you made of yourself, no matter what.

Not a female. So, not the exact advice you're looking for, but I hope what I'm about to write makes sense. You are overthinking things, not necessarily in a female way, but in a young adult becoming a real adult sort of way within your own context. You are obviously thoughtful, seemingly intelligent, and, according to you, attractive. You've lived your life with limitless opportunities and only now are some of those opportunities starting to disappear. It makes sense you feel the walls closing in. 

I recommend doing something you probably haven't needed to do too often: ask for help.

If I were you, I'd use your career office. Get a list of female grads in IB/PE/MBB from the last 5-7 years (solid mix of people still in finance and lots who recently exited maybe some to fashion), then track down the women you are seeking out - Linkedin and Instagram will likely provide you a group of women that make sense to reach out to. The overwhelming majority will be happy to take a call. While, none of these people will give you the answer you want or tell you what to do, their experiences will give you insight on how to move forward and what to look for. 

Once you've done that, it's up to you to figure out what you want. I'd recommend chilling out and living your life then taking score of what you find fulfilling at the end of each  week. Much easier said than done, but it makes sense while you still have the time to be reflective. Also, definitely try an internship in finance - it's as much an interview for a firm as it is for you. 

Good Luck.

Disclaimer; I'm a white male. 

Based on what you wrote you sound like you'd enjoy a career in finance where you can continue to fuel your ambition and be well rewarded and regarded - that said, I wouldn't recommend any of the career paths that consume your entire life (i.e. investment banking division, M&A, and most private equity). You can definitely find a gig that will allow you to be in touch with your feminine side while also feeding you everything that finance offers that you're also craving, but you need to be careful about which career you pick.

The trade-off kind of comes down to either money or time, and by the sound of it you're looking for a career path that leans 65/35 Money/Time - so maybe look at things like Brand Management, Corporate Development, Equity Research, Corporate Banking or Mid-Market Commercial Banking, Real Estate Finance, etc.. Not everybody needs to become a "dealmaker" in M&A, and those that do are the people that are willing to sacrifice everything else for it (at least for a few years). 

On another post I recently saw, someone commented that their mentality/schedule to get through investment banking was as follows: 24 Hours in day - work hours - gym hour - dinner hour = sleep. Ask yourself if you can do that consistently for 2-3 years and you'll know if a career in M&A is the right path for you. 

I am a guy so obviously can't relate on all of the things you are feeling but a couple of your points really resonated with how I felt about 4 years ago. You said "it seems I wanted to be the girl that has it all" and talked about how you want to do those things because they seem impressive to others.

Once I finished my masters and got my first job in the trading world I had this exact same realization with myself. I was depressed and absolutely dreaded each day since it meant more of the same of something I realized I was doing for outside validation instead of what I really wanted. I was being driven by my ego and how I thought I might looks to others. After a lot of meditation, soul searching, fucking off to the other side of the world for a couple months, and realizing that the ego was a creation by my mind that didn't have to exist my solution was to quit the job I had, move from energy to ag trading (took a big cut in pay) and move to a new city that offered me the opportunity to take on hobbies I enjoyed and I can't say enough how much it changed my life. It was scary quitting a job I had worked so hard to get and give up some money in the process. It was scary to move to a new city without knowing anyone else. And it has been intimidating at times getting into new hobbies that I don't know anything about.

But, having said that, it has been the absolute most liberating thing I have ever done. I have never been happier in my 29 years of life. It is obviously easier said than done but I would strongly encourage you to follow those feelings you're having deep inside and see what else is out there. What do you find yourself researching on your own in your spare time? Where does your mind wander when there is nothing else going on? Go get whatever that is with as much initiative as you have chased the previous goals you have. It will be a short term adjustment to say the least but you have the rest of your life to reap the rewards of it. 

Please PM.  

Based solely on what you have written in this post and the way you have written it, I don't think you'd enjoy banking OR private equity. At all. I think even you know this, as you seem to allude to in your 2nd paragraph.

Am female. I've been in that place before where I've wondered whether I'm wildly different from men/ innately different - I went to an all girls school, so for a time in my teenage years I genuinely believed males were a totally different alien species.

But now I think we're all unique, what you're going through at the moment is a human experience (not necessarily a female one) and that normally two randomly selected individual men (or two individual women) will be more different to each other than the 'average' man and 'average' woman.

I think maybe to be in this job/ persuit you need some kind of inferiority complex. I've worked out that no job offer/ house/ amount of money ever seems good enough for me or satisfies, because I don't think of myself as 'good enough', I probably never did in my childhood, and now I'm trying to make up for it with money & achievements. (Hopefully good to recognise!) 

There are traditionally masculine and feminine aspects to all of our personalities. Being at an all girls' school, I felt like me and my friends got to explore the more 'male' aspects of ours, as we were plugging the gaps in our environment. Some friends who went to boys' schools found a similar experience the other way around.

We all go through identity questions, everyone on the planet is a bit mental and mixed up in one way or another. Wish you all the best & know that you're not alone.

As a woman who has been in IB for 3 years, I've found ways to make this job work for me and have gotten to a place where I'm genuinely content with being in this industry long term. However, a lot of it had to do with luck and things that were out of my control. Side note, I also worked briefly in beauty and fashion so your points on "femininity" definitely resonate with me.

Firstly, the environment you grew up in has a significant impact on how you navigate traditionally white male-dominated spaces. I'm a woman and a minority - I grew up in a very white town and went to predominantly white schools from kindergarten through college. As a result, it does not phase me at all to walk into a room and not see anyone who looks like me - I got used to that a long time ago. If you're accustomed to seeing representation in your everyday life, it can be a culture shock to all of a sudden no longer have that. The best thing you can do for yourself is to think about being "the only woman" or "too feminine" as little as possible. It doesn't do you any good to stress about it and chances are if you act like you're just like everyone else, people will treat you just the same.

Secondly, the firm and group you join can really make or break your experience as a woman in IB. Honestly, the group you join matters way more than the firm since culture can be extremely variable group to group. Personally, I maybe got lucky in that my group is pretty male dominated, but I've always been treated with 100% respect and never felt ostracized in any way due to being a woman. If you get even the slightest bad vibe from someone, man or woman, listen to your gut. I remember the only female MD I've ever interviewed with actually really put me off - I can't even really describe why, but I just felt that she held women in IB to an unrealistically high standard and it would probably be miserable working for her. Maybe it was a result of the experience she had to go through back in the day (unfortunately), but still not an environment I wanted to put myself in. 

Lastly, being feminine and putting effort into your appearance IS NOT A BAD THING! Confidence is such a key part of being successful and earning respect in IB, and if putting effort into your looks helps you with that, then you're doing yourself a favor. When it comes to superficial stuff like makeup, hair, clothes, etc. I think a certain element of not caring what other people think is good. Back when we were in the office, I wore pretty much whatever I wanted - bright colors that no guy in the office would ever wear, prints, bolder lipsticks, etc. If people who don't know me want to pass judgement, who cares? I have a great reputation amongst my team and I'm confident that I can do my job well no matter what I look like, so what do I have to lose if someone thinks my lipstick is too bright?  

To wrap it up, I think the level of self awareness and introspection that you have is great - a lot of people don't realize these things until it's too late. There are ways to find equilibrium and balance in IB, but it takes time and might require changes to your own habits and ways of thinking (or getting comfortable being uncomfortable at first). Ultimately, I have pretty solid confidence in myself and I have a great team that supports me, which makes me excited to keep going down this path. Something to keep in mind is that the switching cost in finance is high - especially for women. The risk of moving to a new firm and finding myself in a toxic work environment with a sexist / racist boss is real, and it's scary. Being in an environment where I feel supported and cared for is super valuable to me and I wouldn't walk away from it easily. 

I'd say you're a prime candidate for OnlyFans' new and improved platform!

You know it's August and near labour day weekend when everyone apparently has enough time on their hands to write a dissertation as their posts on WSO threads.

The people responding to this thread are mistaken when they say that they are not women, because they're a bunch of pussies

The solution to your problem, as a woman MBA candidate, is the Put Out Option. Before you ask, yes, this is a real and observable phenomenon in the business world. Many women MBAs have your exact same feelings at some point in their MBA candidacy, and as a 2nd year woman MBA candidate, you have the option to put yourself out there and meet as many men in your MBA class as possible until you find a partner to pay the bills. You don't have to love them. You just have to love their earning potential.

Problem solved. No need to climb up the hyper masculine career ladder when you can exercise the Put Out Option.

Your level of self reflection seems above average (or you have expressed it so) and will certainly help you. I would add that there is no rule against being a feminine banker or investor. My managing director is a normally feminine mother and she seems to be successful. Best of luck.

It’s pretty cliche but think about what you want. I know lots of women/POC/“nontraditional” people in finance. Some do it because they genuinely love the work, some do it because they genuinely love the money, and some do it because they genuinely care about proving others wrong & maybe helping finance become a more diverse space along the way. The common thread here is being genuine - do finance for a reason that is fundamentally important to you. if part of that is fueled by wanting to prove other people wrong and show that an “atypical” woman can make it in finance, that’s ok - but make sure you find something fulfilling in your day to day and long term work (and even paycheck) to get you through.

who the fuck has the time 

You mentioned mindfulness. Is this from meditation or the anti-anxiety meds? There is nothing wrong with questioning your own motives. Not every hobby is meant to be a career. Hobbies such as your creative pursuits are probably enjoyable because it is done on your terms as opposed to a career that has a schedule, etc. Do an internship and see how you feel. You’ll probably know quickly if it’s for you or not. Everything will be fine. You’ll figure it out.

One thing though - if you’re taking meds for anxiety - stop taking them. Focus on meditation instead. Pills do not solve anything long-term, anxiety lives in the mind.

Dear Diary,

I’m not sure what I’m doing with my life (too feminine for IB), but at least I’m hotter than the rest of my ugly classmates.

Love,

Trisha :hearts:

Every attractive vibrant and happy female i know in ib either quit within a year or two after being shell shocked with how bad it was  or became a tired, soulless, and haggard and depressed shell of their formers self as a vp and up.

It will age you, make many men have little interest in dating you, you won't have time to blow dry your hair(sleep will be more appealing), and forget daily makeup.

Go to ir or corp finance and have a life. Dont join the men who trade time for money and are all balding, having heart issues, and have horrible skin complexions from daily 19 hour work days.

If you'd like to be fulfilled, have people you talk to say they are impressed, and not have to work hard, I would recommend the following:

1. Build a network in the high finance / board/exec level sphere 
2. Consider completing SA or other internships, while doing this ensure you focus on building out your network
3. Once the above steps are followed, leverage your network to marry rich and use your spouses money to start a NFP organisation which you will be face of. Utilize said network, femininity, and "putting things together that look good" skills and traits to host social events that build your ego and keep you busy with the facade of raising money for some cause

Y do you speak so weird 

Just chill lol You’re at a great school. That program is more applicable than just IB/PE/ whatever. Best piece of advice, slow your world down a bit. Put the phone down, explore more of yourself and your other interests then start picking up some books in that area and networking on LinkedIn. You’ll be good.

It sounds like you're going through a quarter life crisis and are struggling for direction. Just relax and pursue internships and see what you like and want to do more of and what you don't like and want to do less of, in terms of tasks, work environment, and industry.

You overstate the differences between men and women here, at least when thinking about what you should do for your own career. There are plenty of very motivated women succeeding in male dominated professions and what's in between your legs shouldn't really influence your career direction.

The incessant humble bragging about how you're hot is rather annoying.

"I would absolutely love to work in Private Equity. But is it worth it for someone like me?" ---->>>> If you're asking yourself this question then don't worry, because it means that PE is not for you and you won't get a job in that industry.

Don't worry about it, you won't be getting in to any of these fields with such a fragile ego anyway. Why don't you try getting in to pottery?

I went into the comments expecting some high quality trolling. I was not disappointed.

 Deleted

but r u hot tho? 

.

I say you go girl! Go get that degree! An MBA can improve your professional marketability and boost the quality and quantity of career possibilities available to you. Full-time employment offers are made to over 98 percent of Wharton MBA graduates. An MBA also aids in the development of corporate leadership abilities and professional network.

TBH I would focus on maintaining your looks and getting plastic surgery as you cross 30+. Women in this age bracket rapidly deteriorate while working in High Finance.

Your chances at PE are very low since you don't have pre mba experience. 

Lately, I'm beginning to feel as if my ego has taken over

Last 5 years of my life in a nutshell, whole reason I went into PE. I could be doing something fun and have a life. Steer clear. 

As an alternative, I've considering working in a role for a few years, paying off student debt, and exiting into a role that is in a creative field (interior design, art, fashion) but still related to investments.

My .02: Give PE a shot. You never know if you don't try. And then you can always call the two years a wash, a way of paying off school, then do something else. And if you can look back and say "I did it! I tried it, I accomplished, and I didn't like it" then you will live with no regrets. 

Female in finance, post MBA and can share some thoughts:

1. Drop the finance fad asap. Like ASAP. You're wildly underestimating how competitive this field is and how dedicated your classmates are to land an IB/ PE job. Throughout your post I didn't see a single reference to top reasons of why people join finance - like numbers/ negotiation/ like businesses etc 

2. If you want to do investing maybe consumer VC is for you. Just a thought. Gives you enough time to do all the stuff in life. I think wealth management/ private banking/ brokering seems a good option too apart from other product roles people have suggested. You will be rewarded suitably for your "feminine" side. 

3. That said please dont blame your conundrum on finance being a male field or women not designed to work harder. In my family almost single female I know put in combined more hours (physical plus mental) into their jobs and runnning the house than men. Finance by the virtue of its work is not male centric. Its a toxic place because men who are in charge of the culture have chosen to make it like that. It's good for nobody (including themselves) but as a woman you need to be thick skinned to deal with this stuff. The work itself is just pure brains/ grit/ common sense and anyone can do it.

4. In glad you want to make your own money. The options suggested here by people are all well paying jobs and will afford you a very good lifestyle.

Im myself in a job where I love my work and people but at times wonder if I should have gone more hardcore and made more money. But I also have suffered due to health and anxiety my earlier job caused and am very careful about managing burnouts etc. Be happy you have these thoughts in Bschool and not in your IB office where you hate yourself and others.