Harvards's 2+2 MBA Program

I've heard it's geared toward minorities, women, and people who otherwise would've gone to med/law/grad school. I could be wrong though.

yeah it's def geared towards those people, minus law school kids who more or less look the same as bschool kids. also good for kids in the sciences

the case program is a joke. "discussion based" is a code word for bullshit i can do while i'm still half drunk from hitting the bar too hard last night. most of hte undergrads who get into this program will be academically qualified, ie smarter than a solid 30-40% of the hbs class anyways...

If you think the case program for the Harvard MBA is a joke why does it work fairly well for Ivey's undergrad?

goon, if this is the way you learned to discuss something, then clearly, for you the case program has failed.

I'm not in a case based program so that doesn't work out too well for you. I just don't see that you have actual merit in outright dismissing it - your argument is what, that the discussion portion is bullshit ergo it's a joke? Pretty weak there big guy.

As far as I know there are only two universities that employ the case system - Western (Ivey) and Harvard. As the case based system works quite well for Ivey, so I'm just curious as to why you think that it fails for Harvard. It really seems to me like you're completely talking out of your ass. If you're not, I'm actually quite interested in hearing the actual flaws of the system so please do enlighten me.

TeldarPaper: "In my opinion, I see these kids getting blown out of the water by the "8-years out of school, Navy Seals for 6, Goldman for 2 years" type people. Especially in the discussion-heavy case study program."

Clearly you have never sat in a case-method class... (tip: if you know how to read and think and talk, not necessarily in that order, you get by/do well)

Clearly you must not realize that 2+2 kids will be the "Goldman for 2 years" type you yourself mention above... you get into HBS, they line you up with Goldman, McKinsey and the rest...

Clearly you also fail to realize that a navy seal doesn't learn much except how to shoot, cut and run.

Clearly.

i'm not talking out of my ass, and yes, i have actual relevant experience here. my principal objection to your comment was that you begged the question by saying that the system at ivey "worked quite well."

i never said the case system at hbs failed. i said it was a joke (ie, easy). there's a big difference between those two statements.

i have no idea what it means for a case system to "work well". what are you judging on? post-graduation placement of the students? if so, then obviously hbs' system couldn't "fail". since you don't go to ivey apparently, i'm even more confused as to what you could possibly be judging success/failure on.

no, my point was that you don't go to hbs for the academics. there are many people who are successful at hbs academically who would get decimated in most of harvard's other schools (undergrad, law, med, etc).

which is not to say that the mba program as a whole is worthless by any means. the networking is extremely useful, as is learning to work in groups, etc etc. Nor is to say that students get nothing out of the case program. actually, a lot of the cases are fairly involved and take a lot of work to do well. but even if you get a lot out of the case program (which is completely legitimate), the fact remains that yes, it is a joke academically, at least compared to the caliber of classes in the rest of the university. don't confuse amount of work with actually being challenging.

and yes, if you've ever been in a discussion based class full of ivy league students, then yes, you will realize that it's fairly bullshit based. that's just a fact of life. maybe it's actually less so at lower caliber schools because students there aren't capable of bullshitting believably. when dumb people try to bullshit, they expose themselves as retards. but in the top institutions students pride themselves on being able to do as little work as possible while blowing away the competition. not doing the reading or having any idea of what's going on but walking into a class and destroying the argument of the idiot sitting across from you who actually did all the work is considered a major skill.

so no, i don't think hbs' case system is a failure. nor do i think it's flawed per se. it's pretty good at it what it does.

but yeah, it sure as hell is a joke. and no, the guy with 2 years at goldman and 4 years in the army is not going to be blowing the 2+2'ER out of the water academically (which, if you'll remember, was the original premise of the thread).

"no, my point was that you don't go to hbs for the academics. there are many people who are successful at hbs academically who would get decimated in most of harvard's other schools (undergrad, law, med, etc)."

Uh, evidence?

uh, how do you show evidence in an online messageboard?

if your point was that i was being a bit hyperbolic, sure, "decimated" was an exaggeration. the point still stands: hbs students are not held to the same ACADEMIC standards of harvard law/med/college students and the case based classes are nowhere near as challenging (although they may be better at things like "leadership").

if you want evidence for it, go do your own research.

keke, I find this thread to be quite humourous, and xqtrack's ignorant response to be quite entertaining ^_^

For a 21 year old who has sat through 2 HBS classes and 1 Sloan case-based class, I can ascertain that those with actual real-life experience will decimate the little kids. I learned much more from my classmates in the case-based environment than I had learned in traditional courses with a lecture- or other-based format. Harvard college's classes are so susceptible to grade inflation, calling them "challenging" is the true joke. HBS grades on a scale under which only the top 10% can get a "1". 90% of the class gets a "2" or "3", equivalent to a a 3.0 or worse. The competitive nature of this grading system, combined with the competitive nature of most HBS students, make an HBS class quite rigorous. I got 3s in both my classes, yet I easily crushed undergrad. To compare HBS to Harvard's other schools, if you can't walk out of Harvard College with a 3.6 or better, you're brain dead or your daddy probably bought your way in - or likely both.

Hahvahd is not the only school to use the case method. Most bschools use it to some degree. Darden is a notable example.

It was fun tearing you a new one =D

your comment was well, laughable. I applaud your effort though.

I actually have been through the ringer at a "case-method" school, i.e. I attended McIntire at UVa. And yea, maybe you can "get by" by not doing the reading or of being of a lesser experience than your peers, but that is not to say the 2+2 babies can not get blown out of the water. I assure you they will. And I assure you if you don't know the case baackwards and forwards you won't be at the top of the class, as the Navy Seals/millitary guys probably are.

It's incredible that you don't think somebody in the Seals or that has been out 6-8 years as an entrepreneur, etc. does not know how to think critically, create a network of relationships, and manage under duress.

These kids have not been in the business world long enough to know where they need to improve, how they make relationships, and what they are going to get out of the 160K education. They have been through 5 semesters of college. That's a joke. I know a girl that got in and it's of a much lesser quality candidate than normal applicants. Stupid idea by HBS.

"when dumb people try to bullshit, they expose themselves as retards. but in the top institutions students pride themselves on being able to do as little work as possible while blowing away the competition. not doing the reading or having any idea of what's going on but walking into a class and destroying the argument of the idiot sitting across from you who actually did all the work is considered a major skill"

...pretty sad, elitist comment with no knowldege of the quality of people at places like McIntire (as compared to your much lauded Ivy's. News flash: most of us got into ivy's, including HP, but simply were too social, good-looking, and party-loving to give it up).