I am pretty sure there must be many investment bankers with non target back ground. There are many kids who somehow can't attend top schools but really want to get into IB and high finance. This is for them.
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Was working a 9-5 job, felt extremely underemployed and unhappy. Resume dropped here and there while working but of course, those never yielded anything.
One day while scrolling LinkedIn, came across a post from a Director saying their group is looking to hire. In-mailed, chatted, then about a dozen interviews later, I was in.
Breaking in at the junior level really comes down to luck a lot of times. After the initial learning curve, I ran laps around kids who got in easily through target school OCR / diversity. Point being, your alma mater has no impact on your ability to actually do the job.
Although I will say, once you get past the analyst level, this job becomes mostly political and that’s when some target school / diversity peers start to pull ahead.
You think so? That it matters at the later levels? I thought it was how much business you pull in?
You don't need to bring in any revenue until reaching MD, which is potentially 11.5 years after finishing your analyst program. The MD promotion is largely based on perceived potential as well.
It's a lot easier for a kid from an Ivy to tap into their school network vs. a non-target with no innate connections. Half of my MD's deal is just hitting up his friends from Brown and Wharton basically...
Did you have any specific skill like modelling etc or it was just luck?
Yeah definitely. I had the skills but it was luck that gave me a chance to showcase my skills. Luck matters on the job too - the kind of staffing you get, the market condition and rates, the group you're in, the quality of those above and below you, etc.
I think it's better to accept that most things in life come down to luck. You'll probably sleep better at night.
Did you break into IB as analyst 1?
Completely by chance/accident. I was primarily interested in working in corporate banking/GTS, but saw a late IB product group opening for SA, so I sent off an application. Got an invite for a first round, grinded knowledge that I needed, got the AC, then got the offer.
Got lucky in the tail end of the 2021 hiring spree
Nope I’m literally trying to figure this out so bumpppp
I got the IB bug late into freshmen year, and going to a legitimate NO NAME college and being non-diverse I had little to no hope. I ended up sweating my ass off networking with companies in my city and pushing resumes for 2 years to the 4 local IB/PE shops. I finally got a summer analyst internship between Sophomore and Junior year and got an offer back during next two semesters. I leveraged the year experience with a large IB shop and worked in a finance role that was non IB. After a year interning I networked and was moved to IB division in a big city (Not NYC or LA) but still decent and got a full time after college.
xxxxxx
I’m an incoming analyst at a MM this summer, so haven’t fully started yet, but I’ll offer what I can. I think non-targets have a much better chance than WSO seems to give credit for. Here’s the things I’d recommend:
As for who to network with, start with your school’s alumni then try to go to other people you might have a connection with. Maybe they went to Harvard but they also went to high school in your area. Maybe you noticed they were a student athlete and you were too. Perhaps the best connection you can find is they went to generic state school 1 in your state and you went to generic state school 2. As long as you can find some commonality and personalize your outreach you should have pretty strong yield.
There’s some other obvious stuff like grinding the technicals, doing mock interviews, etc. but I feel that all is more common sense. I will concede that when I recruited for SA it was towards the height of the COVID deal boom, which probably made it relatively easier for me and some of the other non-targets I know that got offers, but nonetheless I don’t think going to a non-target is the end all some on here proclaim it is.
Lol, non target with a below 3.3 GPA, no finance network, got into FO HF, MM, and BB. Luck? 99%. But, I read a ton, tried to connect on a non-financial level during interviews, and never stopped consuming new info. Network builds over time. Case studies that aren't modeling based to show how you think is powerful.
These days places know financial situations push good candidates to state schools. I think we see more, not less.
A lot is taking a leap of faith, going out of a comfort zone!
Your achievement is very impressive but it's definitely not the norm for 3.3 GPA non-targets to get such offers. Many firms have GPA cutoffs at 3.5 and won't even look at you below a 3.5. I'm not saying don't have hope if you don't have a 3.5+ but you should definitely do everything in your power to stay above that threshold.
Obviously the whole interview process is much more than a GPA, which I'll admit really only matters to getting you a first round interview, but you're only making life harder on yourself the lower it gets. You yourself conceded there was a lot of luck involved in your process. The whole IB recruiting game is already subject to so much luck- the key to consistent success is to minimize that luck as much as possible.
Took me probably 75 phone calls which led to about 3-4 interviews and landed one
Currently work at a MM. I went to a super non-target (I am legit the only banker from my school). I didn’t have a great GPA either (3.4), but I ended up landing a back office gig at a BB. Worked there for about a year, and that’s when I learned about investment banking. Started studying technicals like crazy whenever I got off work and on weekends, then networked a ton. Ended up in my current role in a tech coverage group.
Same here (was). Congrats
Getting the internships is the first step and arguably the hardest. As someone who interviewed for at least 20 roles, I can tell you that the key is improving as you progress.
To start, you need to understand the that you're fighting an uphill battle. Once you have accepted this, you can appreciate every small victory and you can learn patience as you reach out to hundreds of individuals / firms and have a low response rate.
When you do get responses, whether it be for an informational interview or an actual interview, come prepared. For informationals, have good questions, read up on the bank, try and understand the basic fundamentals of the role. I never really networked with the top bankers (e.g., PJT), but IMHO, I found that showing interest and being honest about what I didnt know went a long way. For actual interviews, make sure you know the technicals, but also make sure you are relaxed and composed. Everyone knows that you need to prep for walk me through a DCF, but you also need to be able to logically walk someone through your interest in the industry, come off as engaged but relaxed, ambitious but not a try hard, interesting but not pompous, etc.
For me personally, the biggest hurdle was getting over impostor syndrome and convincing myself that I actually belonged in banking. As a college student at a non-target, I had both confidence and self-esteem issues. This severely impacted my ability to succeed. I would overthink my answers, try to be someone else in the interview process, and lose confidence after making a mistake on one technical. I would also drink far too much coffee, which made me come off as jittery and led to unconcise answers.
However, through persistence, I continued to land interviews and I continued to work on my shortcomings. This is what will seperate the non-targets who land IB offers from those who give up and complain incessantly about diversity hires. If you refuse to give up, dont have a feeling of entitlement but one of gratitude, you can find a bank out there that will take you. I know I worked a banking internship for free just to get initial experience, but any relevant experience sets you miles apart from the other non-targets.
Once you get the initial experience, your confidence will increase dramatically, which in turn leads to more offers, and the benefits of all your hard work start compounding rapidly.
I am a firm believer that if you want it bad enough, you will make it happen. Look, IB isnt like med school, it isnt like trying out for NASA. Yes, it is brutally challenging to land your first role and yes there are a high number of heads competing for a small number of seats. But it will always be doable, especially at the internship level. The rationale is many students have a feeling of superiority and will turn up their noses at the 12 man shop in Charlotte, and will refuse to even take an offer if its presented on a silver platter. There will ALWAYS be shops that are looking for interns, and so long as you come prepared and appear ambitious, you will eventually land a slot if you refuse to give up.
I firmly believe the key was networking even when you’ve gotten 0 results. I went to an absolute no name school when recruiting for SA and literally made networking my fulltime job, and still only got one offer.
however, i never would have gotten that offer if it werent for aggressively playing the numbers game. Halfway through sophomore year, nothing had materialized from my constant cold networking and I freaked out that I didnt even have anything for sophomore summer (which I saw as a prereq for even starting junior IB SA recruiting).
it was at this point (already after hundreds of cold outreaches) that I compiled a list of 500 MM PE shops, paid a guy on fiverr to scrape 2 emails for each shop, and then sent a mass email using MailMerge software.
i got like 10 phone calls out of that whole batch, and got an unpaid winter internship at one tiny search fund and a summer internship at a 10 man LMM PE shop.
and if it werent for the fact that a guy at the unpaid search fund referred me to a friend of his at my current bank, I would have had a whopping 0 superdays and 0 offers that year.
Before i made that last ditch effort it would have been rational to chalk up my lack of progress to my no name school, but as cliche as it sounds you really just have to never stop trying. I was in a really dark place of feeling like no matter what I tried I’d get nothing to show for it, but even in that kind of hopelessness, your only hope is continuously trying and exercising your discipline whether it feels good or bad.
I attended a nontarget school (sent no-one to a handful of people into banking every year) and had a limited alumni network. I think the only reason I got where I did (interning at top MM bank) was by networking a ton. My LinkedIn connections went from ~30 to nearly 450 in the span of October-April, and I was diligent with keeping track of who I spoke with, what group they worked for, how our convo went etc. I was able to get into ~dozen processes, turn those into five SDs, and got two offers.
To tell you the truth if you haven't done a bunch of networking it's already too late - many people jump on this early and are very proactive. I'd wager the best chance you have of doing this well is to figure out what banks have recruiting still open this summer/early fall and try your hardest to get into one of their processes.
Acing the technical/behavioral questions with a killer resume is an absolute necessity - and this won't even get you the offer, it pretty much ticks a box. What puts your interviewers over the edge is how well you present yourself: smart, confident, energetic, but not cocky, overbearing, or pretentious. Don't act like you have a chip on your shoulder because that is kind of pathetic. Let your experiences/expertise do the talking for you.
I just hung out at midtown east bars and would shout “EBITDA!” Whoever looked my way I walked right up to and said “hey can I tell you what happens to the 3 financial statements when there’s a $10 increase in depreciation?” The rest is history.
😂😂
lmao
Luck and networking. Then some more luck and some more networking. Get on the phone and be personable with whoever you are speaking to. Talk about sports, their life, their family, etc. If you only run through the boilerplate questions you will only have boilerplate conversations and nobody will remember who you are.
my dad knew someone
1. Be targeted in your networking / recruiting efforts. Focus on firms / groups that you are genuinely interested in and can speak to very well - no reason in casting a wide net, it's a waste of time and energy because after a dozen or so of recruiting calls it's very easy to tell who did adequate research before the call.
2. Have extracurriculars that are relevant that you can speak to. For example, a stock pitch competition where you had to do some valuation work. Be prepared to discuss that in detail so only mention that if you have all the facts down.
3. Understand that the "hit rate" for cold emailing / cold messaging is very low. Don't get discouraged when you message / email a 100 people and only hear back from like 5 people. That's normal - investment bankers are busy and they will prioritize talking to people they know / people from their school.
That "somehow" for me was having a 2.7 GPA in high school. Personally, I took an extremely circuitous path to banking and more or less fell into it, so really can't provide much advice that is replicable outside of getting good grades, having technicals down pat, and putting yourself out there as much as possible.
I’ll be at a MM next summer, so very young, but if you’re at an SEC school (I know some of them are likely more labeled as semi target), leverage the SEC network. Plenty of people from those schools in IB that are happy to help if you’re competent.
Graduate from the least target SEC school in all the land here (unless KPMG Houston or AB Nashville gets you goin’)… In the absence of landing an undergrad IB internship, I went the lateral route. Started within a rotational program at a household name wealth manager, continued to build the resume with various projects undertaken during each rotation (the ones that I could effectively speak to), and dipped in 9 months for a regional boutique. Granted, it’s not Wall Street but still a path of little resistance.
TLDR: non-target SEC—lateraled to a regional boutique after a 9 mo. rotational program in wealth mgmt.
Networking networking networking. All about who you know, so start reaching out now. Coming from a non target, you may get one or two shots to land a gig, so make sure you’re fire at technicals. Easy way to impress your interviewer
West coast nontarget here - freshman year I was scrolling LinkedIn when I saw a post by a VC Partner who wrote about sports tech. He was connected to a senior I knew and I reached out. That call turned into an interview. I worked there that summer and through working there and a few networking zooms I was introduced to 2 MDs at small firms. I was able to get and succeed in my interviews and internee for 1 MD during my sophomore year and interned for the other during the summer. This experience with ~180 calls to nontargets across the country turned into 2 offers, 1 from a MM and another at an EB, which is where I’ll be this summer
You deserve it bro
Took some time, had graduated master, did 2 unrelated internships (consulting and another in finance at a corporate) and kept applying until I landed m&a internship at a recognised bank, then worked my way up. Hundreds of applications and reach outs
Persistence is key.
Just try to maintain a healthy and balance lifestyle and personal relationships. Many people grind like crazy to get in and end up very unhappy. It's still work and sute it's cool but it's not that cray
Like what a lot of others have said, it's often down to luck. I had a rather unconventional path because I jumped around several different positions for my various internships since I had no idea what I wanted to do. But one internship directly led to another, and my last internship before I recruited was at a MM/LMM PE shop.
I will say, while it comes down to luck a lot of times, there are factors you can control. I recruited with a perfect 4.0 on my resume, and I know that helped me stand out significantly--even when compared to target/semi-targets. I also didn't network at all with the bank I eventually ended up with, and I'm pretty sure I got an interview on the sheer strength of my resume. But again, I will always say that you should network, as that's your best chance in.
High GPA
Networked like crazy to get boutique WM and IB internships - literally cold called places to get unpaid internships
Worked with upperclassman to find out how they did it
Practiced technicals and fit answers - emphasis on fit and your ‘Why IB’ story
Cold emailed and networked w anyone under the sun at banks come recruiting season
Looking back I was definitely a maniac, but was nice to have something to strive for / have no regrets
Comes down to three things:
1.) Casting a wide net
2.) Being prepared
3.) Luck
The wider your net is, the luckier you get. The more prepared you are, the luckier you get.
I went to a literal farm school in bumblefuck nowhere. Good GPA, good activities, knew my shit, I checked every box but no one would speak to me. I got lucky and got into a summer role at a boutique through a friend of a friend of a friend and tbh, I sucked. I was in over my head and the guys I was working with ran circles around me. I redirected myself, went to grad school, got a masters, took my last round of recruiting knowledge, and went at it. Before I had even gotten to school, I had sent 500+ emails, had multiple phone calls, and was on top of it. Even then, I kept striking out. I was older, interviewing for internships, and not many banks want a 23 year old intern. But, because of my masters program, I needed to do that, so I pushed on. Finally in November, so like way past the traditional recruiting cycle, I got on the phone with an alumni of my program and he said the magic words “are you still looking for an internship?” Went through a flash process, crushed it, and ended up converting to full time.
I can tell you right now, failing a process and striking out sucks. It’s demeaning, it sucks, and I almost ended up taking a job as a wealth manager because of it (no hate to wealth managers tho). And I was lucky I was in a position where I could go to grad school and get a second shot. That being said, I also worked my ass off. Networking was my job. If there was anyone who had anything tangentially related to me, I was in their email asking to speak to them. I would speak to anyone who would give me 5 minutes and I spent weekends doing mock interviews. As a non-target, it really does come down to how bad do you want it? Breaking in when you don’t go to HYWSP is, more or less, self selection. now on the other side of it can look at non-target kids and know who has done their work and who wants it. Luck, although it does exist, is mostly what you make of it.
Was I lucky to be able to go grad school? Yes.
Was I luck to get a second shot? Yes.
Was I lucky I spoke to the right person at the right time? Yes.
That does not negate the fact that I had casted a wide net and I was prepared. It does not negate the fact that I wanted it bad enough to fuck up, fix it, and do it right. Embrace the fact that it’s gonna be a little harder for you, move on, and get it done. If you are good enough for this, the people you speak to will know. And if you want it bad enough, you will find a spot.
My main point in posting is just to encourage everyone who is really interested in IB/PE coming from a non-target to stick with it. At the end of the day, I acknowledge there is some luck involved, but my philosophy was to do my best in what I could control and not worry about what I couldn’t control. I went from a no name school to MM IB to UMM PE, and here are some of the things I think you can control to some extent.
Partially because I started in a year with smaller analysts classes and PE was growing rapidly at the time, I think it was easier for me to get PE interviews than getting IB interviews. However, I will say that the headhunters would not give me interviews with MF, but I had no issue getting UMM interviews.
A lot of networking with anyone and everyone
Follow
Diversity.
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