Currently in IB. Work is stressful as hell. Some clients drive me nuts / treat me like crap and I have a tendency to raise my voice (not yell at them) but just speak loudly. Was told a few times by senior team members that I need to watch my tone but I can't seem to get this right.
Any one here can give me some pointers?
Thanks!
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Raise voice —> client gets pissed —> client calls MD —> MD gets pissed —> HR fires you —> you are jobs less, worse with no reco
Capiche? Hope that gives you enough of a pause before you start shouting
yes, this is well understood. But sometimes, they are just so nasty, change this formatting, the color doesn't match, use this excel formula blah blah blah. Only to change it the next day because of some stuff. There is a complete lack of consideration on their part.
I know I am a low level bitch boy and have to suck it up so I am asking if there are better ways to vend or manage my anger. ty
Find a new line of work because shit rolls down hill and this job may not be for you
Ooo boy. You got some learning to do. Just be thankful you’re in the position and give them a yes sir / man. Cmon. I’m surprised you’ve made it this far without realizing this haha. This is rule #1.
"Capiche" -- You are associating Italian-Americans with intimidation tactics, you better watch your microaggressions bro
Two ways to think about it
1/ try to understand where they are coming from - is the person bad or is that person’s situation bad (his/her boss is pressuring) - chit chatting (May be went to same college, or from same state or you both are not having luck getting laid) / if possible getting a coffee together goes a long way to building a useful work relationship
2/ if the person is bad - Not to say you shouldn’t push back or bring this to ur VP or MD’s notice - but do it in a politically correct way or may b u work at a BB with back office then pawn it off
I work at a MM but can you share some examples of what it is like to pawn it off to the back office?
Most of the format aligning, benchmarking, comps spread (not always) etc is sent to back office or subcon.. only useful if u have the time though…not for urgent stuff…depending on pipe, may hear back anywhere from 24hrs to 7 days
Vent in safer circles if needed (trusted juniors, family members). Take a break to go to the bathroom or walk around. Make up nicknames for dumb clients in your head.
Whatever you can do to not let your anger slip out in front of seniors. Not worth losing your job.
Thanks buddy, yes agreed. Just that in the heat of the moment and with almost everything due yesterday, it's just hard to maintain composure at times especially when the clown client tells me "oh we need to redo this slide because I just want it that way"
From reading your posts in this thread, I think I might be seeing the problem: you need to change your expectations.
Meaning: Everyday you go into the office, you expect that there aren’t seemingly inane sr banker / client requests that are made, and thus your time won’t be wasted. Unfortunately, it appears that this happens every time.
What you need to do: every time you submit a deck, a model, whatever, you have to expect that they will come back at you for a silly request, in a potentially rude manner. What will you do from now on? You put a smile on your face, and you say “absolutely, will do.”
Don’t argue with them, don’t be angry with them, don’t anything with them - just do. It’s much easier to do these tasks when you accept that dumb things will be requested and your time will be wasted (though it’s much easier when you’re getting paid very nicely.)
Of course, I understand this appears easier said than done, especially if there’s some sort of in-depth conversation regarding the edits. In this case, you need to consciously watch how you’re speaking - the moment you realize your voice is louder than what you normally speak under normal circumstances, you need to immediately stop, and lower your tone.
Have been in your position before and completely understand your frustration. Some clients are nasty/ unrealistic and unpleasant, but that's all part of the job. To succeed in this business you need to always be professional and constructive. You can never raise your voice or get a bad tone
My advise would be to blow off some steam with your colleagues if you need to. If it's particularly bad, discuss with your peers or your managers in a constructive way how you can best handle the particular client. This will show that you have a professional mindset and that you are proactive in finding good ways to tackle difficult clients. Most likely you will find there are effective strategies to handle difficult clients.
Wish you good luck!
Great to hear from someone who can relate to my situation! Did you also face problems sleeping when you get home cuz u are juz sooooooooooooo f&$king pissed by clients? How did you cope with that?
Yes, have definitely been kept awake countless hours by difficult clients, either directly by receiving tasks at odd hours or indirectly because feeling anxious/ poorly treated. For me it has gotten less of an issue over time when I have learnt to: 1) deal more effectively with difficult clients, and 2) have probably gotten thicker skin by getting used to demanding clients and not taking their behavior too personally. I think just realizing that demanding clients/ customers are an integral part of service related professions and that you need to handle them well if you are to be successful is helpful.
Lifting weights helped me overcome some anger issues. Just blast your headphones to max volume and crush some heavy squats and you will feel much better after, trust me
Rage/anger have been troubling me from early childhood to now. Some aspects which helped me manage it better:
- anger management training or intervention programs
I attended these voluntarily and my family members had a link to these. They help a lot in understanding where anger comes from and how you can deal with it internally. It is easier to deal with it once we understand the reasons behind them.
- lifting weights helps a lot
- sports in general, running, ..
- avoiding situations where this happens. Drive when there is less traffic. Avoid people you don't like. If a role isn't a great fit, maybe there is a better one. Dealing with clients isn't the perfect job for everyone.
I'm going to give you some weird advice but do some kind of martial art like Muay Thai or BJJ. It's going to sound counterintuitive like won't this make you more aggro? NO. You will learn humility real quick actually.
The beatings will continue until morale improves
You need to take a step back.
None of those comments are directed at you personally. But for the client, the deal you’re working on is the most important milestone over a period of a few years.
Think about it: the management team of the company under LBO is playing the outcome of the last years of their work. Itms their bonus at play.
For the guy under the CEO who’s going to speak through 2 pages of the management presentation, these 2 pages may determine whether he’s got a job in 6 months or not. No-one wants their 3 minutes under the spotlight to start by “oh wait a second, this isn’t quite right).
What may be 2 pages within 90 of one of your 3 projects could be the only thing that matters for the person on the other side.
Also, your deliverable is an ancillary product of a service that costs multiple times your salary. In the eye of the client, the output needs to be perfect as it is the only see on the quality your MD is delivering until later in a process.
It will happen, clients can be tough to deal with. Bosses are the same. One of the qualities you should develop in banking is knowing to split your mind between putting your brain time where it matters.
Lifting weights & lifting heavy/intensely in particular. I get up ridiculously early just because I usually have a shit sleep - and in the mornings I go to the gym and the times I'm going for a new PR on say weighted dips or bench or whatever, for the rest of the day I'm just super zen, even if I'm getting my shit pushed in by my manager/deadlines/etc.
If you don't want to make the time to lift, I get it, truly, but at least try some intense cardio once or twice before work and see if you react differently to the general bullshit - you most likely will. The best bang for your buck cardio is by far the erg (rowing machine) - set the resistance to 3 (the slidey thing on the right side) and just go all out for 5 minutes.
Now to think of it, I used to occasionally do the Wim Hof breathing exercises things - I know they sound kind of ridiculous, but you definitely do feel a little calmer after doing them and maybe that will help keep you from losing your cool. Here's a link to one if you want to check it out:
Also, I 100% second JulianRobertson's advice about doing BJJ, I can't anymore due to injury(unrelated), but nothing makes you more grounded than literally being choked out.
Hope this helps.
To just reiterate what some others have said please keep your cool regardless of how upset you may get. You can ruin your career by burning bridges or having even a tiny outburst. My father lost his dream job and was ousted in his career because he had one outburst. It’s his biggest regret in life and he loved that industry like he loved one of his kids. One bad day can ruin everything.
As someone who's had rage/anger issues in the past, I can tell you that the very worst thing you can do is unleash it on the person who is the subject of your anger. Even if they deserve it, you'll more than likely overdo it and completely fuck yourself over. You really don't want to be known as the Analyst who yells at clients in a client services role. I tend to vent to colleagues over coffee or post-call particularly where the shitty client behaviour was directed towards the entire team rather than just myself.
I will say though, If you genuinely have anger management issues, go see a psychologist or something, they'll be able to help you properly in a productive way with something catered to your specific circumstances. Finance circles tend to be very tight and you really don't need to develop a reputation as a nightmare who can't keep their cool in front of clients, as you'll quickly be out of a job with low chances at another in a reputable institution. Fix the problem now before you start to develop poor coping mechanisms and implode.
I have no coping mechanisms. Only seething mechanisms.
Learn the art of stoicism. I recommend reading the book meditations by Marcus Aurelius 💯 good luck 🤞
No offense, but some of you are socially retarded…..
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