IB Associate Recruiting Will Be Virtual (for Summer 2021)
Heading to an M7 this fall for my MBA and just heard from our school that fall recruiting will be virtual, in all likelihood.
Couple reasons behind this; one being that employers don't want to subject their employees to rooms full of people who have flown in from all over the world, and secondly, a lot of internationals who are not able to get visas to the US in time might not be able to physically attend recruiting events, so holding them virtually would make it a relatively even playing field.
How do you guys think this will play out in the context of IB recruiting, i.e. a recruiting process that has multiple touch-points and relies on fit/social cues just as much as technical knowledge? How can incoming first-years look to stand out from peers in a virtual setting? Guessing all firm-wide presentations will be virtual now, along with virtual coffee chats, virtual interviews, etc. Not ideal, but not really in anyone's control per se. Any input/insight would be greatly appreciated.
This is a net positive IMO. You get to avoid the logistical nightmare of running between endless coffee chats and info sessions and having to eat mediocre hors d'oeuvres every night for two months. It also sucks having to train/drive to visit the bank offices in NYC every week.
You should be able gain the info on bank culture from virtual meetings and one-on-one calls, as well as showcase your social skills and technical aptitude. This was the best forum for doing this even when the recruiting process was not fully virtual. The on-campus stuff was too rigid and forced to begin with.
Like the OP, I'm also heading to an MBA business schools">M7 this fall, intending to recruit for IB. I'm currently toying with the idea of not moving into the city where my school is located for the fall semester, especially if classes and recruiting will be virtual, and just moving down in January instead.
What I'm concerned with, however, is if banks decide to hold small in-person events at their office for those who are on campus. Hopefully they won't do that though as it'll appear unfair to those who actually cannot make it in person and are stuck in other countries
what school said this?
My guess is Columbia.
I don't understand why schools are trying to get ahead of themselves and the data. Why are Cali schools already declaring an online fall semester? The data is in. Every March and early April model over predicated deaths and death rate. By early September when recruiting starts the corona virus will not be materially changing behavior. 200 people died in the state of NY yesterday from COVID. That number is projected to be below 10 by September. Also a 60%+ majority of those deaths are coming from nursing homes. Does not make any sense to start canceling events in October at this point.
Banks will say "we don't want to subject our employees to xyz..." and they will be going out to bars on weekends and meeting in giant conference rooms at the same time. By the time the school year rolls around any school that cancelled in person classes is going to look horrible.
Schools will try to virtue signal and will start cancelling all kinds of stuff but hopefully they look at the data and realize an individual under the age of 24 has a better chance of getting struck by lightning than contracting and dying from COVID-19.
Bars will be open June 1st in most states. College Football will happen. NFL will happen. NBA will resume. Most schools will be open and on campus in the fall. S&P will be 3k+ and the "second wave" will not happen or won't be material enough to cancel anything.
Okay COVID rant over, yeah recruiting might start out virtual but you will do first round interviews and superdays in person. (no mask).
Edit: Monkey shits will come from fear porn enthusiats.
Your guess is correct, it appears to be Columbia. I think schools are erring on the side of caution, especially since there are tons of internationals who are currently complaining to admissions that they're not being able to get visas on time to enter the US by August.
By saying that everything will start in person will likely cause a revolt from all internationals, which make up ~40% of the student body. Just speculating tho
Interesting that you mention interviews - as of yesterday, CBS specifically said that interviewing will be virtual (not just for IB, but also Consulting, etc). Don't know if this is final, but just letting it be known that they called out interviewing as being virtual
Your optimism here is well placed and I hope it comes through. But IMO safety is paramount, so if life takes a bit longer to return to normal (past June 1), I would take that instead of an early move and then another lockdown.
I wish you are right but no i don' think people are heading back to the office any time soon. My FT training is virtual all the way through Oct/Nov. If banks aren't willing to train employees in person in Oct, banks aren't willing to travel to MBA programs for the circle of death (no pun intended given COVID)
Bankers aren't just 20 years old analysts. Jefferies CFO died from COVID. People who matters are the rainmakers and they are likely in the 40s, 50s, and even 60s. They make the decisions. I don't think they will be travelling or going back to the office until Jan 2021.
All those sports you mentioned plan to resume without spectators
Interesting to know if others schools announce this. Interested to know if the MBA business schools">M7 schools that announced this are the "core" finance schools.
There are MBA business schools">M7 institutions not considered targets? Enlighten my ignorant self.
All of them are. My apologies. I meant if Wharton/CBS made this announcement this early vs Kellogg. Banks go to all MBA business schools">M7 but we know every MBA business schools">M7 isn't equal across industry exposures.
FWIW - Banks are talking about IB coming back to the office last. The rumor is September for our return to the office and it may be staggered through the rest of the year. Obviously, we could still head to on-campus events, but my guess is no office = no on-campus
Or maybe I’ll ditch my lease, move back closer to campus since we won’t be in the office and then I’ll just do on-campus recruiting non-stop
I’d agree that the one-on-one informationals are much better for both parties than the big on-campus events and doing them via video instead of a conference room should be alright. The big on-campus events are rarely a place to win an offer anyway. Good place to fuck it up though
As a seasoned banker, how do you foresee a virtual crop circle OR "circle of death" to happen virtually? This is most intriguing for me.
Even worse than they were in the Before Times...
In all seriousness and just my guess as we haven’t discussed any recruiting matters for the fall and things will vary by school team, bank, etc., but I could see initial big calls to run through the standard “here’s our bank” deck then open it up to general questions. No break out into smaller groups or anything at that event.
Then maybe separate call events split up into group specific smaller calls that might function more like the circles.
I think mostly it’ll be worse for you guys (not 1 on 1 calls though). You’ll have to stare at the screen while someone asks the same question to avoid looking disinterested, you can’t duck out to “move to another circle,” no natural exit or entry points, tougher to read cues from the banker, weirder to cut in, hard to avoid certain people (you’ll see what I mean) if you’re assigned to a specific call. I guess the positives are less dry cleaning, pants are optional, set times (i.e., not stuck in the circle with the MD that talks for the entire time never letting you move on), don’t have to worry about the food / drink situation
All speculation though so I could be 100% wrong on all fronts
Considering every single wall street firm is work from home with no real return schedules announced, this is the school being proactive. The added benefit is that internationals can now recruit from overseas and won't defer or decline admission.
Spare me your Fox News interpretation and whining. You clearly don't live in NYC and you're talking about shit you know nothing about. EVERYONE here knows someone who had it and had it bad.
This is the school maximizing students' ability to recruit - why? Because it gives the banks an out. It means they don't have to ask their people to stop wfh and go to a campus. What bank wants to ask it's people that are probably, at best doing A/B shifts, to get on a plane to Philly or Chicago or even to a room full of people? It's not gonna happen.
In the case of CBS, now you won't need to wear your suit to class 4 days a week and schlep it up and down the 1 all Fall. You're gonna be able to interview with MORE banks because you wont need to schedule in 45 minutes to get from Evercore down to 200 Water, while skipping class.
-The guy who will be interviewing you
Fox News? You will be back in the office August 1st.
Edit: July 1st.
Also I agree. Virtual recruiting would be easier and schlepping around in a suit all over NYC blows.
JPM and EVR have already gone virtual for FT training through Labor Day. As mentioned elsewhere, IBD will be the last to return because, frankly, we can operate at a fairly high level outside the office and companies, by their nature, are risk averse.
So, once again, you don't know what you're talking about.
Edit: and by the way, do you think I WANT to be home? FUCK NO. This absolutely sucks - I would give anything to be crushing Pig Beach right now, but this is the reality of the situation.
“Fox News” here I guess...
by the most recent data only 4.5% of the city even tested positive, so I’d love to hear how you made the logical leap to stating that EVERYONE knows someone who had it “bad”.
I mean, do you know 20 people in your city, total? Then, if you lived in NYC, you would know someone who had it.
But besides that, there aren't enough tests. The only people who are getting tested already have really bad symptoms, so those symptomless-carriers, who pass it on like wildfire, don't get counted.
I know 4 people who had initial symptoms in mid - late april. Tried to go to Dr, or urgent care and were told: you probably have it, do xyz, monitor your blood oxygen and go to the hospital if you can't breathe. Other than that, they are told to hunker down. No, I don't think most 20 somethings are at risk of death , but friends told me it felt like they had "smoked a pack of cigarettes the night before" or "swallowed glass" , combined with the worst muscle aches of his entire life, the worst headache of his life, and diarrhea like you wouldn't believe. That's what I mean by bad.
But don't take my word for it - ask anyone you know who lives in NYC, I can guarantee they know someone who has had it.
Agreed with this, it doesn't appear as if banks will willingly be sending their employees to schools full of students who came from who-knows-where, for a networking session that can be held virtually. And this is only if bankers are actually at the office, which not all will be. It'll be 100x easier to just host coffee chats, etc. virtually
Was also on the call. To be fair, they also said they would try to hold smaller group "professional networking" in-person to the extent that it's possible. Who knows if that's an in-person coffee at a bank's office or just lip service. It's impossible to predict what the situation will look like in November, 6-months from now. Further, it may be bank-by-bank - I can envision a scenario where some bank thinks this is their chance to snag the best candidates/weed out the uncommitted (which is the MBA recruitment process anyway).
Slightly more cynically, I think the suggestion that all interviews will be virtual was a targeted measure designed to entice international students to enroll. Seems silly to make that call now; summer associate interviews for banks won't happen until Jan 2021 and other industries even later than that.Schools (especially CBS) needs their international cohort to enroll and I think this was mainly geared towards them.
It’ll be interesting to see how platforms determine closed lists following several rounds of events. I’m sure there will be greater emphasis placed on resume and past work experience.
I also wonder if certain platforms will extend the number of schools from which they recruit given drastic cuts in time commitment and cost.
I am running recruiting for one of the MBA business schools">M7 at my EB and I guarantee this will be the case across almost every bank. Bankers will JUST be returning to the office around the time recruiting is in full swing and they’ll be doing so on a somewhat limited basis. No one will be hosting large info sessions and none of us are going to want to shake the hands of a bunch of you.
It’ll honestly probably be a good thing for everyone, because people will stop focusing on who is the best conversationalist over a coffee and instead on more substance.
This. Thanks for the insight, good to hear it from someone actually working at one of the banks. Has your bank given you any indication of the types of events that will be held, or will they be similar in nature to previous years but just virtual instead?
If the latter, would you say there is even any point of being in NYC (assuming the MBA business schools">M7 is, say, CBS), from a recruiting standpoint, given that classes will be virtual as well?
No indications yet - it’s too early to focus on it. Right now people are too focused on 1) how to handle the summer program, 2) how to handle the onboarding of the new full time classes this summer and 3) the current virtual recruiting being done for the summer analyst program. Usually associate recruiting doesn’t become a focus until later in the summer and HR doesn’t loop in the bankers till late August / Early September.
That said, the general view from my management team is that early fall is likely the absolute earliest we are back in the office and even at that time it’s going to be limited (I.e. certain teams at certain times with less desks on the floors, etc). They are also indicating that during limited office openings no one will be required to return and it’ll be fully optional (and I can guarantee that a majority of the senior people don’t come back right away as they don’t gain much from being in the office). Summer programs and training programs have also already been moved entirely virtual.
This is consistent with what is being said across Wall Street (which I base on conversations with my old classmates) to the bankers. Obviously conversations with trading desks have been different.
On your last question, I would only say flexibility is key, but my guess is no. Even if you are at one of the two NYC schools we recruit at, you’ll have enough advance notice if you need to be here and the level of in person engagement is going to be way down.
Surprised this hasn’t been asked yet but does anyone have any thoughts on recruiting numbers? I’m assuming they’ll drop but the question is by how much?
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