Anyone dealing with horrible interns?
Ignore my title as Intern in IB… no clue how to change that
My group has one intern that feels impossible to work with. I’m never one to be upset about lack of familiarity with tools or excel, but they don’t have much interest in learning how to use tools here yet they seem to care so much about their internship. They also push back on almost everything, complain about having too much on their plate constantly (don’t have anything unmanageable), never have a single question when we ask if they have questions then ask things that were explained last minute, are unresponsive/impossible to reach, and lately have been getting defensive towards feedback. It’s so disconcerting because they also care so much about doing well and have all these issues. I realize a lot of things don’t come natural and should be explained, like overcommunicating, but is a fundamental attitude problem fixable?
I dedicate so much time trying to coach and explain things to this intern for them to just have a lack of interest in improving.. anyone have a similar experience or am I just a bad people manager?
Obviously you have no obligation to but if you still genuinely care about them turning things around then maybe you can have a candid discussion with them about the attitude issues you’re talking about in this post? Sometimes people can be really oblivious to these norms despite caring
Yes ! One got me fired for doing nothing but grinding on her a bit (ignore title am MD). She was pretty mid too if I weren't hammered I wouldn't even spit in her direction
You can lead a horse to water but cannot make it drink it. Lessen your outreach efforts without making it seem obvious (so the intern doesn’t feel that you’re ignoring him, if you’re considerate enough) and if he reaches out, and only then, should you provide meaningful time to him.
I feel like this is somewhat endemic of their (my) generation. Not to mercilessly shit on my own generation (as I do think that there are certain benefits to an appetite shift from mindless bootlicking to thinking a bit more objectively about the way in which you should be treated even as a junior), but there are certainly some people who are wildly entitled or even clueless to their own detriment.
For example there was a group in my SA cohort (2022) who would just up and leave at 5/6pm to go to dinner/drinks together every night, didn't make much of an effort to involve themselves in the culture or socialise within their own team, believed they were above the menial basic shit that they were asked to do, and then were suddenly shocked when they didn't get a return offer in an already difficult market. Now, I'm not sure if this is a generational thing or whether it's just something people do at that age, but it is a bit shocking to me, particularly given the well known hardo culture in IB, that these people willingly apply for these roles, act that way and then whine about not getting a return with a straight face.
I tend to agree that our generational had a bit of a shift in attitude compared to what has been the norm. I think more and more we are going to see people hitting the workforce who are very idealistic from being so plugged into social media (amplified by the pandemic). In my experience so far that has appeared either as employees who are ambitious and hardworking rockstars, or as employees completely unwilling to be even minorly inconvenienced. Either way, I foresee the workforce in general getting a little shaken up in the next few years.
It sounds like the guy hasn’t quite got it yet but has some drive there to get that FT offer?
Personally I think it’s worth pulling him aside for a chat and explain the issues and improvements you think he should take on board. Everyone takes their own time to get it, if you think he’s worth the investment and time then explain to him what’s required.
I’ve seen a fair amount of posts on this forum which talk about how finding a mentor or helper at work has made some of the best interns and analysts. Not saying this always works and it does sound like there are some attitude issues there but if he really cares about it, maybe that’s enough to change the issues.
Interested if the others ANs or associates feel the same, has his work been under par?
I don't want to turn this into a "the older generation was better and the current generation is horrible", but I think there is a shift right.
More on, on the current generation, even the last couple, its a little more transactional; meaning, they're more focused on getting something done than actually learning from it. For example, we focus on a lot of "get this to do this", as in, get a college degree, not, learn something in college. Or just get an A, doesn't matter if you cheat. So I think that breds a little of "I want to work at a bank/consulting/law so I can tell people (but I really don't like it)." Or another way, as I say, everyone talks about getting to the NFL, no one talks about having a 10 year career there.
I think that's kind of what we're seeing more of. I know I have friends and my fiance has friends that have advanced degrees or passed the bar and dont want to be a lawyer or work in their field. I think its because everyone pats you on the back when you're on the way up, but after college/post college no one super applauds you for working.
To repurpose a Kevin Hart saying (everybody wanna be famous, no one wants to work hard), everyone wants to be an MD, no one wants to work hard.
FWIW, we have an intern whose a little green behind the ears but shes great, works hard and asks a lot of questions. So they're out there.
One of the best takes I've seen on here
My thoughts exactly - another great comment from you.
I really couldn’t give less of a shit if our interns or new hires initially struggle with some technicals and/or task processing, because the truth is that we deal with difficult stuff. However, I will always appreciate the ones who TRY to understand and learn things far more than those who may produce acceptable content but lack the ability to process feedback, criticism, or my attempts to help.
In recent comments, I’ve always maintained the personality interview(s) are more important than the technicals. Some consider this an interesting take, but I still believe in the notion that nearly anybody can learn the numbers, but ONLY if they are WILLING to try. The personality interview is how I can get a better picture of how a candidate will work with our team, directly leading to performance in the field. The output of this team is a direct result of the cohesion between members, always has been.
Have you had mid-summer reviews yet? If so, then would see if you can get this person’s and see if it matches what you’re seeing. If not, then do you just not have them? In either case, I’d try and collect feedback on the intern from Associates/VPs you know/trust so they can’t twist it to think it’s just you coming at them and then schedule an impromptu review where you break it down for them. I’m talking put it on the calendar, closed door, make ‘em sweat a bit type review. Tell them they’re not on track to get a return offer based on specific feedback (legit examples from you and coworkers), and that there is still time to turn it around but they need to be coachable and understand that it isn’t personal but it’s what’s happening. Set very clear, attainable expectations for communication, timing, work quality, etc. Hopefully they panic for a minute and then maybe realize they do have time to turn it around and they take the feedback to heart. If they’re defensive and can’t believe it then give them a few days to see if it needs time to sink in but if not then write them off and move on.
Ignore role - but this. Most interns I've noticed have not had anyone directly criticise or include some negative comments about them before. That's the generation they were mostly brought up in, and we've had interns that after a little scare, it shocks them to reality and triggers the grind mode.
Never Happened.
can confirm.
one of my summer interns started to leave the office at 6pm from the week before his last week because he heard that conversion rate will be low despite me following up with him constantly. have seen him sleeping/drunk at the desk at 11pm. i've had constant catch ups with him buying him lunch every other day, letting him know he needs to have attention to detail, going through his work etc.
i'm actually done
Have some interns who are sometimes leaving before 5pm....I'm not much of a facetime guy but jesus at least stay till 6pm and then leave. Just a terrible look when Analysts and PMs are working till 6-7pm and someone who supposedly wants a return offer leaves beforehand
There's horrible interns everywhere, and it's a by-product of several factors. COVID-19 led to lower standards for getting good grades for almost 2 years, and many colleges are slowly bringing educational standards to pre-COVID. Since a lot of these kids got away with it in college, they think that they can get away with it in the workplace, when in reality, their professors are aware of them cutting corners/cheating but don't want to deal with it.
The other issue is that kids in my generation tend to be short-sighted and not think about the long-term. Giving an extra 10 to 20% percent effort during SA/early analyst days will help you build a solid foundation technically and a network that can vouch for your work ethic for the next 5 years. It's frustrating to see people throw away a good reputation that was built up over several months/year once they zone out post-PE offer / realize they don't want to stick at Bank X for much longer during their internship / early analyst years.
True, even pre-COVID educational standards were getting way more lack, which had a hard time because it falsely leveled the playing field. A's were more you tried, B's were basically you showed up, it took a lot to fail. Colleges also don't want students to fail because it looks poor if say Princeton has a 78% graduating rate vs Yale/Harvard.
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