Handling Stress / Burnout in Private Equity
This site has been tremendously beneficial for my life over the past 6-7 years. I started out as a freshman from a non-target that did not know anything, but through the help of WSO, I was able to eventually land an internship at a top BB. I worked hard and received a full-time offer. After graduation, I worked hard during my Analyst years and ranked top bucket both years after fortunately closing a few big deals. I started at a UMM PE firm after my 2 years in banking and I have been in my current role for over a year.
I feel very lucky to be in my current position given my background. I've landed the jobs that I dreamed of in college and I genuinely enjoy the work. My colleagues have been supportive both in banking and private equity and I've had positive relationships with most people in the office. The struggle that I'm having now is the non-stop transaction work in private equity. While I enjoy my job, I have not been able to take a day off in over a year given the active pipeline (especially during COVID-19).
Has anyone else experienced this slump of chronic tiredness / stress? I really enjoy my job, but it seems like life has gotten to a point where I've only thought about work for the past year. It's been difficult to have a normal life when I'm on calls from the moment I wake up to the moment I sleep. The only thing I do these days are participate in diligence calls, write investment memos, and model millions of investment scenarios. I can't imagine myself doing any other job, but it feels like there should be a better work life balance.
I've also noticed that good work gets rewarded with even more work. I know I've gotten a better experience than most of my peers in banking and in private equity, but it's a trade-off. I realize this is a positive for my career, but I can't help to think that there has to be a breaking point. I want to succeed in this career, but is this the only way to get ahead? For example, I realize my counterparts at other UMM PE / MF PE work hard as well, but did the people that make it to Partner / MD at a early age just grind their way to the top? It's not like I hate my job or anything like that since I actually enjoy thinking about investments and leading diligence processes, but I can't seem to find time for anything else in my life. Is this just a grind that everyone has to face to get to the top in this industry or am I just doing it wrong?
Well thought out post.
Yes, being a 1st year (or second year associate) is tiring / stressful. The first thing I can tell you is the work gets easier, and you'll get faster which will give you more time. From my experience, banking took maybe 6 months until I fully understood everything that might be asked of me in my role as an analyst, and from then on I could complete tasks with less time and energy. PE at the associate level is just a more difficult and cerebral job, so it takes more time to get fast. There are a lot of different aspects (business, finance, legal, accounting, consulting, HR, IT, etc.) that you need to know about, and will take time and experience to understand. Easy example - someone asks you to look up ability to fund an add-on with incremental debt under your 1L credit facility. As a brand new associate, you'll likely never have cracked a credit agreement and you'll have no clue where to start, and it may take you two hours to trace through the doc. The third time, you'll flip right to the page.
"Is this industry just a grind". PE is not easy, and everyone is on call . That said, at my firm, some partners are in-the-office grinders, some aren't, and the grinders are not necessarily the best at their jobs. I suggest you find a senior person at your firm that seems to have a good lifestyle, while still being well respected and on an upward trajectory. Try to understand how they got from where you are to where they are today.
Exactly was feeling what you were man. I'm in my second year at a megafund and feel drained at times knowing that good work will just yield you even more work (but not performing will yield you a very hard time).
I'm not sure what your dynamic is with your associate colleagues but I work in a pretty brutal group where opening up to them has really helped in that I realize I'm not the only one feeling it but I'm in it with them. Just want you to know that what you're feeling isn't just unique to you and it's something you've got to learn to deal and cope with.
For what it's worth, a lot of the senior people where I work joined the group at the right time or were hired laterally so don't think where you work is the be all end all. Happy to chat more if helpful but I do feel you
Hear, hear! I'm in my second year at a megafund in London and the feeling's the same. I love what I do, I know I can handle the stress and the hours, but I don't know if I want to become that person in 5 years.
This should be an industry wide conversation. The work life balance is non-existant and I think most people don't even realize it anymore.
People assume that enjoying the evening or the weekend with family and friends is some strange sign of weakness or lack of commitment. Even disconnecting on holiday or just asking for a couple of days off in the "non-holiday" season is frowned upon...
Back in the pre-Covid days, I got to meet my girlfriend and friends for dinner on a Tuesday (at 9pm) and it literally felt like it was a holiday. That's how ridiculous this gets. Every time I get home for dinner with my girlfriend feels like an occasion to celebrate - this is not sustainable.
Look, you do get a lot more efficient, but no one mentions that it just means more work. I mean if you get more efficient and you leave the office by 11pm instead of 1am, is you work life balance that much better? Really?
And talking with my colleagues is helpful and makes it easier, but does it solve the issue? Not quite.
Look, I think there's hope to improve things, but we need to speak out. Naturally it won't be within our firms, because people are scared of voicing these concerns - I know I am.
Maybe this is the place to start - WSO and the Instagram finmemes are starting to carry a bit more weight. Maybe this starts to get the attention of more senior people.
I really enjoy what I do, but I'm increasingly doubtful that I want to trade my life in for a career in PE. (And I feel that most of our generation of PE / HF guys feels the same)
.
Not to derail the thread, but are you saying you haven’t had a single day off including weekends in a year? Is that highly atypical? That seems insane.
Don't want to speak for OP, but I don't think that's too atypical. I've been at my firm for almost 2 years, and there are probably only a handful of weekends where I didn't put in at least an hour of work Saturday and Sunday. Even if you're not actively working, you're still "on" and it can be stressful to not be able to fully unplug. Not working on a weekend also means that you probably chose to put off to Monday / Tuesday some things on your plate - depending on the culture, maybe acceptable, maybe not.
Exactly this. I'm not sure why I never felt this in banking since I worked hard then too, but it feels like a different pressure in private equity. It could just be my personality in that the more success I achieve (at the junior finance ranks), the more I feel pressure to continue to do well. It feels like a waste of my past 3-4 years if I were to suddenly fall off a cliff in terms of performance at my job.
What this has translated to is constantly feeling like I have to be responsive to every request. I haven't worked 24/7 for the whole year, but I'm 100% confident I haven't had a day where I was unresponsive for the entire day (weekends included) in a long time. I truly want to sometimes be a little bit less rigid and do less, but oddly enough, that's not part of my personality and I would not have gotten where I am if I was like that. Does that make sense? Maybe this is why people pay 250K to go to business school....
I felt almost exactly as you did working at not quite an UMM, but still a very hierarchical-type fund where all the partners had come from the same MF-roots. You're already further ahead of the finance curve with regards to liking the intellectual aspects of the work - you should take comfort in knowing that so many people face the burnout while absolutely hating the work as well. It sounds like you're leaning into the idea of being in PE for the long haul - that comes with the fear of wondering if the burn out will get to you eventually, whereas it's much easier to put your head down and crank for 2-3 years in banking if you know you're trying to GTFO. What I'd say is assuming PE is the right career fit for you, know that it gets better (as all jobs typically do with seniority and experience, and career path conviction). The interesting parts of the job only get more interesting as you reap more responsibility and are able to spend less time on the routine and more on the intellectual parts.
As you head into your second year, you may want to consider other funds that could be of interest. Chances are there are a bunch of funds out there that would be a great / better fit for you. I made the move to a smaller fund where the work is just as interesting to me if not more, the investment strategy aligns with my personal thinking, the culture is better than my old fund, and the hours / pressure to constantly be online are lower. I don't make as much cash as I would if I had stayed (although carry / co-invest is nice), but for me and my priorities, that was a trade-off very much worth making to get the best of everything.
I think you're encountering a couple different things.
Just general burnout of having been on a demanding career path for a number of years now from working hard in school to banking to PE. You've spent a lot of time in your relatively short life, grinding pretty hard.
As people mentioned, the learning curve in PE is steep, the first six months to a year is tough and it will likely start to get a little better. You're probably right on the precipice.
At the same time, you're probably also starting to realize that life in PE doesn't get much easier as time goes on. Yes, you'll get better at the transactional piece of completing a deal, but then that work is rewarded with more responsibility and thus more work. Soon you'll be a Senior Associate/VP needing to fully manage a deal, while making sure the semi-clueless Associate beneath you hasn't ruined the model or your preso to the IC isn't rife with errors. After that you'll be working with portco management, putting out fires, then after that you'll be fighting to raise money for the fund with finicky LPs, while managing deals, and potentially a family, etc.
My point being, it never gets that much easier. That sentiment isn't limited to PE, but I feel like PE is a good example of a career where it's always going to be somewhat long hours and a work> life type of lifestyle. As I'm sure you've noticed, some guys/gals seem to love that. They don't have too many hobbies or a family that they want to spend much time with and truly get fulfillment out of finding the next deal. That might be you or it might not be, that's for you to decide.
With regards to not having space in your life for anything else, I'd try to hold out one more year and see if things get better. Hopefully you get to a point both with your experience on the job and standing within the fund, where you can start to carve out time for yourself during the day/week. It's not going to be easy, but unless you're at a pure sweatshop of a fund, you should be able to push back enough to find a few hours in the day/week where you can workout, pursue a hobby, go on a date etc. Even in a high pressure career, this is vital for your mental health and is a good marker as to whether your colleagues will be supportive of you. You could also try and feel things out and see if a short vacation would help as well. I get that given your fund dynamics (and covid) that this might be impossible, but feel it out. A week off might make you feel better or it might give you the space to realize that you're just not happy with the current pace and lifestyle of your work and that you need to make a change.
As a sidenote, I've taken a couple "longer" vacations in my career so far. And by longer I mean ~week or so. I've generally found that when I've been happy in my career, I enjoy the time off, but am at least somewhat excited to get back to work. When I've been less happy, I really find myself dreading going back.
From there you can decide if you want more time to yourself or if you can find a way to balance your current job with the life you want. Maybe a few hours a week is enough and you find yourself feeling refreshed. Maybe you realize it's not enough and you need even more balance. If the latter is the case, maybe try a downmarket fund in a smaller market, or a family office role, or a Corp Dev role.
Like many other juniors I see, most people blindly follow the prestige path for the first few years and then realize they aren't that happy. There's nothing wrong with admitting that you want more out of life than being a partner at a big fund by 34.
At the end of the day, you're at an age where you're starting to figure out what you want out of work/life. Be honest with yourself on that goal, keep that as an ultimate north star, and pursue things that will help you to achieve that goal.
"There's nothing wrong with admitting that you want more out of life than being a partner at a big fund by 34."
This is great advice and really needed. When you spend all day, every day with people who have chosen to chase life as a partner, it can be difficult to see there are options outside of that.
I've personally felt burnt out and spending the last few weeks to figure out, which of the following is it?
Please be my mentor
I feel the same way. I think the finance industry realizes this and is working to make it better, but it's a slow change. Anybody in the industry who is 45 years and older frankly didn't have it as bad as it is today. Just think about all the information that is available today and what analysts/associates are expected to do. There's capiq, factset, bloomberg, expert networks, search firms, alteryx, tableau, power BI and massive amount of industry research that is easily available. Financial reporting infrastructure has come an incredibly long way in the last 20 years so real time financial information can be made readily available. 10 years ago private credit markets were almost non-existent and now they're prevalent making credit easily and quickly available. Deal timelines have compressed significantly since the 80s.
All that to say there has never been a time when more work has needed to get done in a quicker amount of time. Not to mention 20 years ago, cell phones weren't prevalent. So when those 45 year old MDs went home they could actually unplug. Not true today.
It's a crazy unprecedented time we're living in and it really does suck to be a junior deal team member. I don't think anyone is soft for getting burned out.
These are all really good posts.
Also, comp hasn't been mentioned but needs to be called out - typically there is a reason why these are high paying jobs...and a big part of it is because they suck. As a big law friend of mine once said a PE friend, we don't get paid a lot because our jobs are special...its because they suck and you need to get paid to keep you. By suck, I mean lifestyle. So while the grass is greener in terms of lifestyle, comps will likely fall dramatically. Not good or bad just is, and a personal decision.
This.
Do jobs in PE, HF, IB etc really require taking real risk? Or real creativity? Or real intellectual power? Generally the answer is no (and this is not to discount the intelligence of people in these spaces). But these jobs somehow pay really really well. Why?
The above post answers it. One in these industries is getting paid a lot to literally be on call all the time, because that's what's being bought... Your time. You are foregoing friendships, relationships, hobbies, etc etc etc, because you are on call and have to work all the time. And yes because in general because these jobs "suck".
Would many people (or those of the same academic caliber) do any of these jobs if they paid 50% of what they pay now? Or less? I'd guess probably not. And it doesn't get that much easier the higher up you go (don't forget even if hours get better, the whole having a spouse and kids and bills to pay doesn't help).
A short anecdote:
A few friends of mine (who are a fair bit older) and partners at big law firms, were telling me about their plans to run the Boston Marathon. Essentially they would fly in Friday AM, work, sleep, wake up Saturday, run the race, and fly out Sunday. Of course they would be flying in business class.
Me: Wow that sounds brutal. How do you do it?
Them: Dude, when we were young, we had some time and energy but no money to do things. Now we have all this money, but literally no freedom or time to do anything we want. It sucks. So yeah, if I want to run a marathon, it has to be a weekend trip to the US from Asia. Do you think we care about business class or anything? We just want some time to hang out. Oh yeah, don't ever be a lawyer either. Dude we are Partners. It still sucks. Next round is on us, before I have to go home to the wife and kids. What do you want?
SB to ke18sb
Eeeerandom, I went through the same experience as you about 2 years ago at the end of my first MF year. Folks here have laid out the life tradeoff well and while it gets better you should get used to this general feeling for 8-10 more years at a PE fund. The UMM / MF route is a time tradeoff.
My only addition would be that there are places where you can be well compensated while living the life you want to and you are in a prime position to seek out those areas. Find yourself a Director or ideally VP position within one of your PortCos with high upside and career momentum to advance into the C-suite. It's not a total cakewalk by any means as there is still pressure to perform and you still probably working 7-7, 5 days a week but it is a hell of a lot better than your current experience.
Begin the exercise by thinking about the PortCos you work with or that your team handles and whether or not there are any open gaps. Could you bring yourself on as Head of Corp Dev or Operations or Finance? Work extra hard with those portfolio companies now and make yourself integral to the major projects your firm is trying to implement, even if the Portfolio Ops team is doing a lot of the heavy lifting. It's going to feel like you are intruding on their territory but as long as you tie it back to opportunities to invest in the business, acquire companies or the balance sheet in some way you can weasel your way in.
If that does not work for you, consider a search fund. Are you well connected enough to raise $2-5MM of capital? If you can figure that out, you'll have to work really fucking hard, but at least it will be for yourself. So you can set your own priorities and schedule.
Last but not least, you can always try the good ol route. Grind through this next year and then head off to b-school to give yourself a much needed break and reset.
I’ve committed to b-school personally, but you bring up a great point. I think the portco route is often overlooked. While I’m sure it comes with its own downsides and administrative tasks, to me it seems like a good role at a portco maintains much of the interesting strategy type work while allowing for a better work-life balance and more focus (rather than being spread across 3 portcos, fundraising, and always on a deal). Lower comp yes, but a good exit is a great outcome, and I’m not sure anyone really needs $500k+ a year.
One thing I forgot to mention on these jobs... they are typically not in tier 1 cities (unless you can get them to do a remote job). That can be unattractive in your mid-20s after years of “high finance” jobs in NYC / SF / Chicago etc.
It's 100% a question of finding the role at the right company in the right location doing the right work. Thankfully, you have a year or more to do diligence on your PortCos and find a place to insert yourself once you get jaded.
I will say that if you go the Corp Dev route it's pretty easy to go remote given you'll be on the road a fair amount anyways at conferences, meeting targets, etc. Most highly active Directors or VPs of Corp Dev I know are only really in the office 1 week a month.
I believe pretty strongly in this being the "new wave" where the majority of post-MF associates will be headed as b-school declines and PE firms become more rigid in their hierarchies creating fewer VP spots.
Depending on what you want out of your career in context of the broader question of what you want out of life, there are a variety of routes you can take that would still allow you to be in PE, but potentaily have a better lifestyle. Instead of UMM, you can look at MM and LMM opportunities that often have better lifestyles, but it is definitely not a blanket statement for all funds. Additionally, if you really love PE and all that it entials, consider the independent sponsor route. You'll likely have to play in smaller deal sizes than you may be accustomed to right now, but if you love investing and enjoy the process of getting a deal done, it may be a fit for you. Deal dynamics and skills required will be different than UMM, but nothing you wouldn't be able to pick up.
I got completely fried and burned out in the later part of my banking years and made a conscious choice to prioritize work-life flexibility in my career going forward. It's resulted in me forgoing significant financial compensation (to the tune of 30%-50%), but I've never been happier and enjoy the team I work with.
Compbanker had a really good comment on a post re: the middle-market, and I would think with your impressive background and performance, you would be an asset to many firms that inturn may provide you the balance between career progression and satisfaction along with work-life flexibility.
@Eeeerandom, I really appreciate and reasonate with your write-up on this topic. I am on a similar career trajectory but one year behind (finishing IB, starting at UMM soon). I've had countless talks with my peers regarding the topics you raised and wanted to see if you have any advice for a more junior collegue.
I am extremely burnt out from my two years in banking and know that the pressure and responsibility is only magnified in PE. I’ve been told by current and past associates that the group I will be joining is a sweatshop, with similar 24/7 culture as you. Part of the issue is that I recruited very early (1-2 months into banking) and have been a hard worker my entire life so I was naive and undaunted by the hours. After going through banking and experiencing the mental stress and physical toll on my body from not sleeping, constant fire drills, etc., I have serious anxiety about starting PE.
I know I am fortunate to be in this situation and having an offer in hand is a blessing. In addition, I do find the job and financial deal analysis to be interesting. However, I want to be realistic about my health and work-life balance. Do you have any advice on how to make the PE years more sustainable? A big concern of mine is that being a strong associate means you get more work. How can you set boundaries when you are the first line of defense / rest of your team is grinding? Is the answer just that I have to reset my attitude and suck up the next two years?
fuck as an incoming SA..this sounds brutal. Always have been a hard worker but banking sounds like hell.
One small thing that you’d be surprised people don’t do: confirm timelines and flag to your VP if something is going to be a huge time suck. Oftentimes the assumption is that a task is urgent because that’s what you’re used to - not always the case. Sometimes you have a few days.... take it if you need it.
Just as general advice, to those who enjoy the transaction oriented nature of IB/PE and enjoy the stimulation of looking at different businesses to invest, you should all look into private credit. Relatively new as an asset class in the last decade, but it is very interesting especially if you are at a shop that invests cross capital structure (senior, mezz, and equity). Hours are substantially better (60-70 with occasional 50 hour work weeks vs 70-80) and comp is also great (80-90% of what you would make at a PE fund, ex. $200k vs $250k). Get lots of transaction experience and while you may not be a control investor still get board observation or a board seat in deals you do a unitranche or mezz and equity co-invest). Partners are still making millions, but obviously less than what you’d expect in PE. Just my $0.02.
You work in private credit? Considering trying to go down this route
Feel free to PM me with questions
OP you are definitely not alone, I feel the same way I've been through it a few years (analyst to associate at the same MM fund). I think the job has gotten easier but I agree that it becomes draining to work every single day, even if it's only a few hours on the weekends. Just to know there's no escape from it is stressful. Lately I've just been a lot less motivated and feel myself procrastinating or getting distracted because I know (especially with Covid) that I'm just going to be working all day everyday anyways, so I don't feel motivated to get things done any faster. Don't know if anyone has advice for how to stay focused and motivated when feeling burnt out. And for people that are more senior, how did you get over this?
I have this issue too. I felt compelled to push through because I didn't know any different (had been grinding this hard since the 9th grade). Now that COVID has happened I am unsure whether I can continue doing this even until the end of the year, as I have seen what it is like to spend more time with my friends and family.
One day, hopefully a lot of people on this site are going to wake up and start thinking for themselves, and put some thought into if they enjoy the transactional nature of the work, or simply like the prestige and $ that finance entails.
The job changes and gets harder as you ascend to MD / Partner. You have more at stake and your mind is never off of work. The most successful guys I've worked with are deal junkies. They get high off of this shit. They will never change, divorces and all. They're like dogs who chase cars.
Are you wired that way? Or did you push through because this is what hard work is supposed to look like and the only way you think you can achieve success?
Are you clinging to that one anecdote of a lower MM firm who works 9-7 and no weekends, and MDs golf all the time? Yea I've heard of that firm too. You'll never make it to the top because its crowded, they hit a few lucky homers in the 90s but their current returns are subpar, and probably not raising the next fund (certainly not in this envir).
I really hope the working professionals on this site are reflecting on if this is the career path they want to lead, and the life they want to live. Any industry the top is hard. I don't think Toy Story was created off of Pixar animators & technicians going home at 7 everyday. That's why you have to enjoy the hustle and the journey, big picture.
Many people take the above and then sprint towards a "normal" job. I think that's a cop out if you're naturally ambitious but just burnt out from the past 5 years. The key is to find something you are naturally curious about, and don't hate while grinding.
this
exactly. the most successful person I know in PE doesn’t see any difference between work and life. it’s all one thing, effortless and on all the time. at the office, on the beach, ski chair lift, wherever.
I come from the IB forum but was always curious if PE was more stressful / harder / more likely to burn out in than IB. I'm in IB and am already burnt out tbh. I don't know if I can handle PE if it is just banking 2.0.
Thanks everyone. Reading all the comments on this thread definitely let me know that I'm not alone in my thinking. I'm going to stick it out for another year or so and see where I am. I may honestly be just going through an extremely busy period. I've also thought about public equities, but I do think I align better with the private equity type of investing.
I've seen a lot of fluctuations in terms of "hours worked" among the junior team at my fund so that gives me a little bit of hope. I also know that I actually like the work that I do so if I could just have a little bit of free time on the side, I would be happy with that.
I do think the steep learning curve in PE surprised me. I was pretty good at my banking job so I thought I could get by, but it has definitely been harder than I realized. I'm hoping I get more efficient as time passes.
I also think the last couple months of work under COVID have been especially difficult for PE. Dying deals, firing hundreds and thousands of portco employees, doing BS cash flow work, all while adjusting to a WFH environment. The work has essentially shifted from 50/50 interesting/not to 0/100 (temporarily). If you don't have other plans I would try to stick it out for 6-12 months and re-evaluate.
Jesus, this thread is one of the best iv'e read here.
This thread should be stickied. As a second year PE associate, pretty much every post resonated. Was also top bucket in banking for two years, but this work, especially post-COVID, makes that feel like a cake walk. Thanks all for the input.
Good Thread. Dropping comment to review in detail later.
As long as there are lines of hungry juniors or competitors waiting on the sidelines for your job or your opportunity, the work life balance won't change too much. Turns out sacrificing your life to make 400k at the age of 28 is worth it to a lot of people, at least until they try it and hate it themselves.
I can't think of job where you can make that much money that young and it not be a ruthlessly competitive field that doesn't require a life in favor of work sacrifice. High Finance, Law, Medicine, and even sports, all require a similar lifestyle.
Oh and don't say "bUt TeCh", that gravy train won't last forever.
Keep it up, let your experience compound and as you become less and less replaceable I would think you will get more control over your time.
I would argue that law and medicine are not as hard of a path as becoming a VP or Partner in PE. Sure, medicine has longer years spent with no money made, but you're working harder and it's way more competitive in PE. Law doesn't even have very long hours per se. Also, in medicine, you are just mainly studying a lot rather than dealing with the intense work environment and struggles that come with PE and competing with everyone else. If you were at Harvard med school going into neurosurgery, it's a different convo obviously but on average, PE is definitely harder.
I disagree with pretty much every word of what you wrote. A few things specifically:
Finance =/ law =/ medicine. They are just different so hard to compare like you're trying to do.
Law doesn't have long hours? I think the corporate associates that bang out disclosure schedules have the worst jobs in the world. I have never once envied our lawyers on a deal. It's 10pm and you just got done with a long call for a mark-up of the purchase agreement? Sounds like the associate is staying up until 2am to take a stab at the mark-up and send it to the law partner so you can turn it back to us mid-morning. Same stuff in banking.
Medicine you're mainly studying a lot and not dealing with "intense work environment"? I'm not sure I can think of a more "intense" work enviroment than dealing with life and death, knowing if you make a mistake or miss something, it's a bigger issue than if you get yelled at by a partner.
Seems like you're a first year IB analyst. You've never worked in PE so why are you commenting on it, like you have? This, right here, is the issue with this site. You post some non sense like this and then a noob comes on, genuinely looking for advice, and they take this as "oh man, this guy posted so he must know what's going on".
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