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MSF...MAcc questions for post Ugrad
 

GoddardBolt's picture
 
Points)
 on 2/8/11 at 11:57am

Hello all,

I am a senior econ undergrad at non-target graduating in December 2011. I have a good GPA but have not taken GMAT yet. I have been considering going for a post undergrad masters degree and have a few questions I was hoping to get a little help with.My goals are pretty broad as I have interests in F500,Trading, Consulting, and Banking.I would like to stay in the NE but could stay elsewhere for a while first.

Every industry contact and alum I have spoken to in the business is stressing accounting skills and the marketability of an accounting degree. Given this advice I have been considering the following Accounting Masters:(keeping in mind i am non acc. major)

1) UT Austin - MPA
2) UNC CH - MAcc
3) Vanderbilt - MAcc
4) BC - MAcc

That said, I don't want to go into tax or audit (advisory/transaction services would be fine).
So I have also been looking into MSF and MSF variant degrees as well. I have been looking at these:

1) UVA - MA Commerce
2) Duke - MMS
3) Villanova -MSF
4) Vanderbilt -MSF

So I am curious to know if I got an MSF would I be closed out of the big 4 advisory and transaction services? And if I got an MAcc would I be limited to accounting positions?

Tags:
TNA's picture

MSF places into big 4

O
(Human, 13,531
 
Points)
 on 2/8/11 at 12:08pm

MSF places into big 4 advisory. Your not going to get an accounting role with it.

MSF Website
MACC Website
MSF Twitter

Kenny_Powers_CFA's picture

ANT, very true. As a

HF
(Neanderthal, 2,194
 
Points)
 on 2/8/11 at 12:45pm

ANT, very true. As a corrolary:

MAcc places into Big 4 audit or tax. You're not going to get an advisory role with it.

There have been many great comebacks throughout history. Jesus was dead but then came back as an all-powerful God-Zombie.

GoddardBolt's picture

Kenny_Powers_CFA wrote: ANT,

 
Points)
 on 2/8/11 at 12:56pm
Kenny_Powers_CFA:

ANT, very true. As a corrolary:

MAcc places into Big 4 audit or tax. You're not going to get an advisory role with it.

Wow, I had no idea. So MAcc pretty much signals that you want a position in audit, tax, or public accounting?

Kenny_Powers_CFA's picture

Yes, very much so. 1-year

HF
(Neanderthal, 2,194
 
Points)
 on 2/8/11 at 1:12pm

Yes, very much so. 1-year Macc programs were basically created because of the 120 credit-hour rule for CPA eligibility that the AICPA put in place and are a cash-grab by Universities to get students who didn't take a full enough schedule to spend an extra year paying tuition.

Additionally, are you 100% sure that the MAcc programs you listed would take you without an business undergrad degree? I know that Notre Dame requires at least intermediate level accounting coursework for theirs.

It's true that accounting skills are important, but let me ask you this: Of all those contacts who emphasized how important accounting is:
a) How many have their CPAs?
b) Of those with CPAs, how many work in front-office finance roles?
I bet b) is less than 25% of a). You can build a fine career as a CPA working for an auditing firm or in industry but it's not a good path to front-office investment positions.

There have been many great comebacks throughout history. Jesus was dead but then came back as an all-powerful God-Zombie.

Al Bundy's picture

Kenny_Powers_CFA wrote: ANT,

ER
 
Points)
 on 2/8/11 at 2:42pm
Kenny_Powers_CFA:

ANT, very true. As a corrolary:

MAcc places into Big 4 audit or tax. You're not going to get an advisory role with it.

Not 100% true. You're more likely to get a Big 4 tax/audit role from a MAcc, but if you go to a target for the program (i.e. Texas, North Carolina, USC, etc.) you still have a shot at banking. You'll just have to network harder and convince them that you're into the MAcc for the accounting knowledge, but not to become an accountant. It's still doable.

Pretty women make us BUY beer. Ugly women make us DRINK beer.

Kenny_Powers_CFA's picture

Al Bundy wrote: Not 100%

HF
(Neanderthal, 2,194
 
Points)
 on 2/8/11 at 3:11pm
Al Bundy:

Not 100% true. You're more likely to get a Big 4 tax/audit role from a MAcc, but if you go to a target for the program (i.e. Texas, North Carolina, USC, etc.) you still have a shot at banking. You'll just have to network harder and convince them that you're into the MAcc for the accounting knowledge, but not to become an accountant. It's still doable.

Curious how many people you know who've done this. I can't say I've ever seen it. Of course, everyone I knew who did Maccs was an accounting undergrad, so that may be a different cohort than people at those programs.

There have been many great comebacks throughout history. Jesus was dead but then came back as an all-powerful God-Zombie.

txjustin's picture

Texas places people into IB

O
(Neanderthal, 2,447
 
Points)
 on 2/8/11 at 3:14pm

Texas places people into IB from their MAcc every year.

Kenny_Powers_CFA's picture

Do you know how much

HF
(Neanderthal, 2,194
 
Points)
 on 2/8/11 at 3:27pm

Do you know how much undergrad accounting they require? The Notre Dame program (which is my touchpoint here) is essentially marketed as a 5th year for accounting students (not that undergrad accountants don't go into banking) and is massively a Big 4 feeder.

I would still say that in general an econ major will be better suited by an MSF, unless he's had a fair amount of accounting coursework as an undergrad.

Edit to specifically address the original poster's question: Big 4 TS groups recruit MSF programs, I am not sure if they recruit MAcc programs (never met someone from one when I worked in valuation at the Big 4).

There have been many great comebacks throughout history. Jesus was dead but then came back as an all-powerful God-Zombie.

TNA's picture

A masters in basket weaving

O
(Human, 13,531
 
Points)
 on 2/8/11 at 3:27pm

A masters in basket weaving can place into banking also. Go with the best odds not what can potentially happen. UTA might be the exception, but the Macc will still be viewed as accounting.

MSF Website
MACC Website
MSF Twitter

GoddardBolt's picture

Kenny_Powers_CFA wrote: Do

 
Points)
 on 2/8/11 at 4:51pm
Kenny_Powers_CFA:

Do you know how much undergrad accounting they require? The Notre Dame program (which is my touchpoint here) is essentially marketed as a 5th year for accounting students (not that undergrad accountants don't go into banking) and is massively a Big 4 feeder.

I would still say that in general an econ major will be better suited by an MSF, unless he's had a fair amount of accounting coursework as an undergrad.

Edit to specifically address the original poster's question: Big 4 TS groups recruit MSF programs, I am not sure if they recruit MAcc programs (never met someone from one when I worked in valuation at the Big 4).

Thanks for the post, I know that UNC does not require any prerequisites and Texas only needs introductory Financial accounting, which I have. I have to say my favorite program is the UVA MA Commerce, would I have the same opportunities in the Big 4 Advisory and Transaction Services with that degree even though it is not an MSF?

Al Bundy's picture

They all require varying

ER
 
Points)
 on 2/11/11 at 5:32pm

They all require varying amounts. UNC, Texas, USC have no pre-reqs but some schools like Notre Shame, Virginia, Michigan, etc. have so many requirements that you basically have to major in accounting to even apply.

Also, yeah fine a basket-weaving degree can lead to banking, but accounting is relevant to banking and that's why top students from top accounting schools have a decent shot at banking with a little bit of networking as well. It's not that unheard of to go to a Macc to transition to banking and it's fairly easy to say that one did a MAcc just to learn accounting and further one's finance skills. Even though these people don't work in banking, I've met a number of people at my non-target that go to the MAcc just get corporate finance or promotions at their current jobs because employers demand solid accounting skills.

Kenny_Powers_CFA:

Do you know how much undergrad accounting they require? The Notre Dame program (which is my touchpoint here) is essentially marketed as a 5th year for accounting students (not that undergrad accountants don't go into banking) and is massively a Big 4 feeder.

I would still say that in general an econ major will be better suited by an MSF, unless he's had a fair amount of accounting coursework as an undergrad.

Edit to specifically address the original poster's question: Big 4 TS groups recruit MSF programs, I am not sure if they recruit MAcc programs (never met someone from one when I worked in valuation at the Big 4).

Pretty women make us BUY beer. Ugly women make us DRINK beer.

Kenny_Powers_CFA's picture

Your insistence about

HF
(Neanderthal, 2,194
 
Points)
 on 2/11/11 at 6:38pm

Your insistence about placement from Maccs to banking aside, the original poster asked about working for the Big 4 in advisory; Ant and I both recommended MSF over Macc and I stand by that advice. Maccs are a fine program but in my experience MSF is a far more likely path to what the OP wants to do. Anything is possible if you set your mind to it, but why make the path harder especially if you have no particular need or desire to study accounting rather than finance?

There have been many great comebacks throughout history. Jesus was dead but then came back as an all-powerful God-Zombie.

TNA's picture

Agree with Kenny. Take the

O
(Human, 13,531
 
Points)
 on 2/11/11 at 6:39pm

Agree with Kenny. Take the path of least resistance.

MSF Website
MACC Website
MSF Twitter

GoddardBolt's picture

Thank you everyone great

 
Points)
 on 2/11/11 at 8:23pm

Thank you everyone great posts, I guess since you do get a couple fin accounting courses and a few corp. finance courses in most MSF that should be good prep for advisory and Transaction services roles.

Bob Dylan's picture

Kenny_Powers_CFA wrote: Your

(Chimp, 15
 
Points)
 on 7/2/11 at 1:36am
Kenny_Powers_CFA:

Your insistence about placement from Maccs to banking aside, the original poster asked about working for the Big 4 in advisory; Ant and I both recommended MSF over Macc and I stand by that advice. Maccs are a fine program but in my experience MSF is a far more likely path to what the OP wants to do. Anything is possible if you set your mind to it, but why make the path harder especially if you have no particular need or desire to study accounting rather than finance?

Bump.

As someone that would prefer to work in Big 4 advisory as opposed to Big 4 audit, I am curious about this as well. Thoughts on attending a MSF vs. a MACC program to break into Big 4 advisory?

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