October Off to a Rocky Start

If yesterday is any indication of what's in store, we could be looking at an ugly finish to 2011. The Dow finished down 258, the S&P broke 1100, and it looks like American Airlines might be going down for the count. Bank of America continued to have issues with its website, though they insist the problems aren't related to account closures in the wake of higher debit fees or that they're under attack by hackers. Their stock suffered further losses and is nearing the $5 threshold that could impact its marginability.

Morgan Stanley's stock continued to struggle, falling another 8% to a new low yesterday on fears of the bank's exposure to Europe. The dollar rallied hard in a seeming flight to quality.

In other words, things look pretty bleak. October is historically the worst month of the year for the markets, and we might be in for a doozy this year. My questions are these:

If the Dow drops below 10,000 this month, will it recover by year end?

If BAC goes below $5 a share, will the government or some other white knight step in to save them?

How serious is Morgan Stanley's European exposure? Is this downward pressure just hype, or is there really something to worry about?

And most important: how do you make the 4th Quarter the most profitable one of the year for you personally?

Assuming we're in for more shaky markets, what's the best way to make a buck this quarter?

 

Physical Gold...here we go!!

Man cannot remake himself without suffering, for he is both the marble and the sculptor. -Dr. Alexis Carrel
 
Best Response

The market has had three years to brace for this. There is a sort of vol fatigue and a limit to how much P/Es can compress. For the record, P/Es have compressed 60% since 2001. And it will make for an EXCELLENT buying opportunity if the S&P dips below ~1000. Obviously it is very important to have an 8-12 month emergency savings fund and 10-20% of your portfolio in dry powder, but beyond that point, being long dividend-paying commodity equities is a winning condition in the retirement convexity game for 20-somethings. If price multiples go down further, you get to reinvest in stocks with real assets paying 8% or 10% dividends instead of 6%.

So maybe gasoline goes to $1/gallon and NY rents go to $1000/month for a penthouse on Central Park and the Es in P/E come down. But that's good news, right? Our big long-term retirement risk is that prices move the other way. Either way, this is a huge win for 20-somethings with a lot of savings.

 

From a market rationality perspective, election season is already in full swing, so it seems unlikely that anything major will be done on the political front. Even the thing with Greece is like pulling a bandage off of a cut painfully slowly, bit by bit. I don't think the Dow will dip below 10,000 before the end of the year, and like Illini would go long on those commodity equities.

Metal. Music. Life. www.headofmetal.com
 

Well, it could go below 10,000. Heck it could go below 5000. But one of three things will have to happen:

-Oil will have to go below $60/barrel and stay there permanently for everyone to enjoy $2/gallon gas. -PEs will have to continue contracting and stay there. Instead of making 10x off your investments in 40 years, you'll make 30x on the higher dividend yields. -Resource stocks gain 50% in value or remain where they are without going lower. (Worst case)

 
IlliniProgrammer:
Well, it could go below 10,000. Heck it could go below 5000. But one of three things will have to happen:

-Oil will have to go below $60/barrel and stay there permanently for everyone to enjoy $2/gallon gas. -PEs will have to continue contracting and stay there. Instead of making 10x off your investments in 40 years, you'll make 30x on the higher dividend yields. -Resource stocks gain 50% in value or remain where they are without going lower. (Worst case)

Any insight as to why gas prices have lagged the drop in crude since May. Just by looking at the magnitude of the move you figure a gallon would have been around $3 by now.
 
jbert112:
IlliniProgrammer:
Well, it could go below 10,000. Heck it could go below 5000. But one of three things will have to happen:

-Oil will have to go below $60/barrel and stay there permanently for everyone to enjoy $2/gallon gas. -PEs will have to continue contracting and stay there. Instead of making 10x off your investments in 40 years, you'll make 30x on the higher dividend yields. -Resource stocks gain 50% in value or remain where they are without going lower. (Worst case)

Any insight as to why gas prices have lagged the drop in crude since May. Just by looking at the magnitude of the move you figure a gallon would have been around $3 by now.

Because in the real world of energy commodities and not CNBC. About 18 months ago the trend between RBOB and WTI broke, actually US RBOB and Brent is the more closely watched correlation. Increased production from Canada and domestic US proudction have led to issues at Cushing which WTI is based off of, not RBOB.

 
IlliniProgrammer:
Well, it could go below 10,000. Heck it could go below 5000. But one of three things will have to happen:

-Oil will have to go below $60/barrel and stay there permanently for everyone to enjoy $2/gallon gas. -PEs will have to continue contracting and stay there. Instead of making 10x off your investments in 40 years, you'll make 30x on the higher dividend yields. -Resource stocks gain 50% in value or remain where they are without going lower. (Worst case)

I know you think commodity equities are underpriced and all, but geez, how long will they continue to languish? It makes no sense. Look at RIO, Archer Daniels Midland. What gives?

Metal. Music. Life. www.headofmetal.com
 

Ullam porro animi ut perferendis cum deserunt distinctio corrupti. Et occaecati minus maiores omnis. Accusamus consectetur dolorum tenetur veniam. Quis quia voluptas voluptas est labore. Praesentium fuga dolorum reiciendis ad numquam rerum ea.

Perspiciatis non veniam hic beatae tempora eius eum. Cupiditate eum labore sit qui quis. Reprehenderit provident et eum sed aliquid illo. Consectetur dolorem nihil dolore magnam numquam delectus. Unde et magni suscipit dolorem nemo quibusdam earum. Possimus et aperiam minima labore qui atque non.

Career Advancement Opportunities

May 2024 Investment Banking

  • Jefferies & Company 02 99.4%
  • Goldman Sachs 19 98.8%
  • Harris Williams & Co. New 98.3%
  • Lazard Freres 02 97.7%
  • JPMorgan Chase 04 97.1%

Overall Employee Satisfaction

May 2024 Investment Banking

  • Harris Williams & Co. 18 99.4%
  • JPMorgan Chase 10 98.8%
  • Lazard Freres 05 98.3%
  • Morgan Stanley 07 97.7%
  • William Blair 03 97.1%

Professional Growth Opportunities

May 2024 Investment Banking

  • Lazard Freres 01 99.4%
  • Jefferies & Company 02 98.8%
  • Goldman Sachs 17 98.3%
  • Moelis & Company 07 97.7%
  • JPMorgan Chase 05 97.1%

Total Avg Compensation

May 2024 Investment Banking

  • Director/MD (5) $648
  • Vice President (20) $385
  • Associates (88) $260
  • 3rd+ Year Analyst (14) $181
  • Intern/Summer Associate (33) $170
  • 2nd Year Analyst (67) $168
  • 1st Year Analyst (205) $159
  • Intern/Summer Analyst (146) $101
notes
16 IB Interviews Notes

“... there’s no excuse to not take advantage of the resources out there available to you. Best value for your $ are the...”

Leaderboard

success
From 10 rejections to 1 dream investment banking internship

“... I believe it was the single biggest reason why I ended up with an offer...”