Am I out of my mind…? Currently 2nd year asso at a PE fund. Looking to move to a seat in citadel/point 72 as opposed to Tiger Cubs. MM seats are more prevalent and if I land with a PM with a strong book, maybe I can do well? Wdyt?
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Agree. If you land with a strong PM, I would do it. The problem is most of the seats that open up are with new PMs or bad teams that have a lot of turnover. Every team that i interviewed with (4-5), I’ve looked at LinkedIn a few years later and most were gone lol. They all blew up
I don’t understand why this is a debate these days. If u wanna do public mkts, outside of maybe Pershing, there is no merit to the SM over MM argument. If u wanna do public mkts and do well / actually make $, I guarantee u will eventually (sometime in ur career) be at a pod. And the career pod guys are always better than the SM guy who left to join a pod. So, pods give u:
Yes an SM might give u better career downside protection, but you’re young, and if ur good, ur MM will find a new pod for u
I’m truly convinced passthrumonster is a pod shop HR employee that’s paid to closely monitor WSO and shit on any SM HF posts and sway the public opinion on the riches that MM offers you. Never seen someone so dedicated to make it known that pod shop jobs are THE path to the life that all overworked junior IB and PE analysts and associates dream of.
I wish man im getting my scrotum handed to me on NVDA
Im just preaching the truth. Got a lot from this site back in the day and recently came back / saw a lot of bs that ppl are making career decisions on. Yes I preach it but then again, no one has any real pushback…
Clueless. Pods don’t have better economics. SM generally run waaay more net long, as a result the bonus pool is substantially propped up by easy money beta returns. There’s no “beta return” contribution to the bonus pool at Citadel. Get a clue.
At most single managers, you’ll typically be in a position to get paid real money 3 or so years in, if you’re actually adding value.
Looking through LinkedIn there are MFPE associates (BX,KKR,H&F) that have made the jump to top tier Citadel cubs (Woodline, Holocene,Candlestick) so it's possible. Best to focus on the PM's with bigger books ($1bn+) and bigger teams at the Big 4 pods.
Lol @ “top tier Citadel cubs”
Username checks out
Of course it’s “possible” to go from bx/H&F to a Woodline. That’s like saying it’s possible to go from Harvard UG and being a Fulbright scholar to getting a job at Alvarez and Marsal.
Hmm not sure I agree with this. Candlestick and Holocene generally hire fairly well pedigreed people and pay 2+2 analysts competitively. They're not Coatue / D1 / Viking only hiring GS to Apollo types but the people I know there were only a half step below that profile.
Don’t understand how this struck a nerve when this is based on the experience of people in PE who have made the jump to MMHF like OP was asking about.
Its a personal choice you have to make. Read a lot about both styles of investing and see what you think you'll like best + sector specialist etc vs generalist etc. Lots of resources on here that talk about the day to day of both. Think about which one you will enjoy more on the junior and senior level, which makes it easier to perform later on
One thing to note if you are going the pod route is to really diligence the pod you are going to. The absolute best way you can do this is if you have a friend who works at one of the big 4 bus dev teams. They'll be able to spill all the details even if the PM doesnt work for them (cause they most probably interviewed with bus dev or they are trying to poach them if they r good)
If you dont know anyone, focus on how long the PMs been at the firm as a PM, previous track record, analyst turnover, team culture, AUM, and what strategy he has when he gets allocated more AUM if he performs well (hiring more analysts to cover more regions? etc). speak with previous analysts about how good he pays/ did he stick to his word re payouts/culture. If you do take the pod path, Working for an established PM is very important to learn the ropes, even if you'll report to sr analyst. Learn the ropes from them, then leave with the sr analyst that goes to become a pm
dont think about the money now as if you are performing well at a good sm or mm you will be juuust fine. Very hard to motivate yourself solely on money when you absolutely hate the work. Its sort of how I got lured into MM world, then hated it and left
RESOURCES TO HELP:
I wrote a few detailed posts about nature of work at MM and wlb in the couple pods i worked in. If you listen to some of those podcasts from each side + the WSO posts i listed, I'm positive you'll come out with a rough idea of which is more suited to you
MMHF:
https://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forum/hedge-fund/intellectual-stimulati…
https://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forum/hedge-fund/when-do-hf-analysts-ta…
https://www.buysidehustle.com/life-on-the-buyside-at-a-multi-manager-he…
MM Podcasts I'd recommend:
Balyasny: https://www.joincolossus.com/episodes/36513013/balyasny-building-a-bett…
Point72: https://open.spotify.com/episode/5syP4UddPRHK3zOHRin6Qt?si=kma5wK_6QYSI… + https://open.spotify.com/episode/52QMR4iFyfWoqCQLvIwNYE
Viking (Paul Enright) : https://www.joincolossus.com/episodes/88194365/enright-the-buy-side-pri… + https://www.capitalallocators.com/podcast/inside-long-short-equity-inve…
SMHF:
https://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forum/hedge-fund/questions-about-single…
https://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forum/hedge-fund/what-does-a-model-look…
SM podcasts that I would recommend you listen to (some arent a “pure SM” like Farallon but you get the idea):
TCI: https://www.moneymazepodcast.com/podcast/sir-chris-hohn-billionaire-hed…
Lansdowne: https://www.moneymazepodcast.com/curated-podcasts/daniel-avigad
Lansdowne (the better one with pete): https://www.moneymazepodcast.com/podcast/global-investing-public-privat…
AKO: https://www.moneymazepodcast.com/podcast/nicolai-tangen-ceo-of-the-norw…
Egerton: https://behindthebalancesheet.com/podcasts-singles/podcast-episode-1
Farallon: https://www.capitalallocators.com/podcast/investing-to-save-humanity/
Maverick: https://www.joincolossus.com/episodes/70732909/ainslie-lee-ainslie?tab=…
Lone Pine: https://www.joincolossus.com/episodes/17309631/mandel-investing-behind-…
Greenlight: https://www.joincolossus.com/episodes/72443180/einhorn-the-long-and-sho…
Soroban: https://www.joincolossus.com/episodes/43906331/mandelblatt-investing-in…
Ted Seides: https://www.joincolossus.com/episodes/88472774/seides-a-deep-dive-into-…
Roden (another ex lansdowne): https://behindthebalancesheet.com/podcasts-singles/podcast-episode-2
Baupost: https://www.capitalallocators.com/podcast/timeless-value-investing/
XN (ex soroban founder): https://www.joincolossus.com/episodes/37926218/kapadia-everything-compo…
Eminence: https://www.joincolossus.com/episodes/28925950/sandler-building-an-inve…
Elliott (Not L/S eq but very interesting nonetheless): https://www.grant-williams.com/podcast/the-end-game-ep-14-paul-singer/
Can you share some of these resources?
Sure. Added it into my comment above
EinnUlfr doesn't miss. Absolute legend
Thanks this is OP here. Really grateful for the resources! Any chance I can pm you for a few Qs
Sure
following
Great list. I’d add the Invest Like the best episode with XN’s founder as well
good shout. thought I had him in there already
Very helpful, thank you!
good HF podcasts
I don't think you realize how insanely helpful this comment is for a junior just starting out.
I have some questions regarding beginning my career in the space, could I PM you?
Would appreciate the time more than you could imagine
Sure
I know plenty of ppl that were former PE and have been very successful MMHF investors making all the way to PM. Also this whole debate about those who join MM not being able to go to SM, it’s kinda hilarious given I’ve seen it. Especially if you have PE background, for the SM’s that only hire from PE, that shouldn’t be an issue.
Elite LO is the best public markets seat. Just takes a few years to realize it
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