Graduating without Internship - how to begin?
Hello fellow monkeys,
I am a student graduating in three months from a non-target university, and I'd like to go into Investment Banking. However, I've never had an internship - only seven months as a teller at Wells Fargo (which isn't very impressive [or at all]). For convenience in understanding my situation, my resume is linked here; if you happen to have any suggestions to that as well, I appreciate any help.
I speak American English natively and German fluently, and would like to work in Switzerland for the next several years, to broaden my international experience. I'm looking to be based in Zürich - not only is (Swiss) German the main local language there (as opposed to French, which I'm not very good at), but the jobs seem to require high English proficiency as well, which gives me an advantage. There also seem to be many BBs present in that area.
To begin, I've been looking at the "Graduate Training Program" through UBS and the Credit Suisse "Full-Time Analyst" position. Both of these programs are or can be geared towards IBD work, and seem to be oriented more towards recent graduates in my position - that is, they seem to be set between Internships and Direct Entry, but I don't really know too much about the fine details, or if it's just a unique name that the banks give to their own versions of the same(-ish) thing.
Does anyone have any knowledge of these programs (or similar ones in Zürich) or further spots for me to research and decide what programs to look for? I've begun to read M&I through, so I know of that one but haven't gotten through it yet.
Thanks for reading this, and all help is appreciated.
~~
IDS
PS: Moved over from a blog post to this forum, in case you've seen this. I thought it would be a better fit here.
Check :) Thanks, otherwise does it look good overall? I just recently reworked it to a form that someone linked on the website - I think it was the WSO IBD template, linked here - and since it was such a disaster before, I just hope it looks good now.
I've also got a CV in dev, but I'll ask for advice for that at some later point - I've followed the Europass CV format for that.
I swear I am not trying to be a douche, but someone has to be realistic with you. Investment banking is probably not going to happen for you. Why?: 1) Non-target 2) GPA is below 3.8 3) No real internship experience. In fact, any type of FO position is more than likely out of your reach. You really need to be real with yourself, and now is the time to start looking at some realistic options. I'm thinking retail banker? PWM?, although that might even be a stretch since you do not have any experience and a lot of those firms want experienced sales professionals coming in with clients. You have to take whatever you can get at this point, and bust your ass so you can move up quickly in whatever it is you are doing.
That I can do.
What do you guys think about working Back-Office? I mean, I know this is the I-Banking Bullpen, but as far as career prospects, etc? I've been looking around on this site a lot about this sort of thing, Operations Analyst, etc, but I haven't seen much - most things I see here are directed FO.
Everything in your resume is okay for a BO role, but be aware that there is fierce competition out there for those positions too. There are a lot of kids applying for BO at BB's with 4.0 GPA's and internship experience. I feel for you bro. The economy sucks, and there is more competition for a lower quantity of jobs in finance. Don't give up and get as much experience as you can get. Keep applying and remember that you should apply to at least 1000 places.
Yup.
But back to where we were - do you know about those programs?
Dude, those programs are full time jobs. I don't think those are for you.
if your financial situation is stable I'd look into trying to find an unpaid internship at some boutique, and since you are trying to work in Europe I'd look into a 2 year MSF which gives the opportunity for an internship before the 1st year and in-between the 1st and second. Your grades are ok and I'm sure if you did well on the GMAT you would be admitted to at least "semi-target" MSF for European IB. There is much more constructive advice to give than, "GIVE UP BRO IB AIN'T HAPPENIN".
Hell yes! As far as my financial situation, it's stable - my parents make good money and my interest payments are not too high - I hate taking money from my parents, but I know I could easily get the hundred or two a month from them to cover interest payments.
Not only that, there are probably plenty of internships around my home area (Seattle) that will pay at least a bit.
But do you mean I should look in Europe for an internship? That would put more financial pressure on me, but it's possible.
As far as the GMAT - I won some prep books from Manhatten GMAT in a lotto drawing - their full set - and I could definitely study my butt off for it. Do you know anything about this company? Also, what would the timeline be - three or six months studying, and then taking the test, and then applying for 2013-20whatever European MSF programs? Also, the CFA requires a bit too much studying to dive into right after undergrad, right? I've heard up to 2.5 years studying for it while employed, but I'm not sure what that would be if I were studying for it full-time.
And uh, why? Are they not designed for entry-level? I'll be looking for an internship between now and the hiring dates - that is, Sept-October or longer, depending on what program I apply to. My question is, why would a full-time job not be appropriate for a person graduating? It's not like I'll have classes to attend.
Can you expatiate further?
After all that, I've also been looking at a program through UniCredit. While, to my understanding, UniCredit is by no means a BB, they've got a program that interests me a lot. It's called the "International Graduate Program" and I'd be looking at the "Corporate & Investment Banking" section. It lasts a year to 18 months, and offers entry positions (in IB) in: Structured Finance, DCM/ECM, Loan Syndication, corporate finance Advisory, and Project Finance.
Given it requires at least six months prior international experience (I've got a year) and proficiency in English and the respective local language (I'd look for London, Munich, or Vienna), and they say they expect from me the "first practical experience in financial sector/capital markets" (meaning, if I'm correct, that they expect it to be my first practical experience), I feel that it would be a great program to be at for one year, kick some ass doing it, and then use the references and experience to land me a more normal entry-level FO analyst job at a BB.
Yes, I know this will be difficult. I do not expect or desire it to be easy - the point is, I want the payoff. I know it will take me longer than a 3.8 HYP grad with two IBD internships and great references, but that doesn't mean anything. I can, therefore I will. The path may be longer, but I've come a hell of a long way already (PM me for details) - I can do it.
By the way, I really appreciate all your input. It's great for me to be able to get this advice - I mean, I wish I had discovered this site three years ago, but still, over the past short while I have read so much and learned so much that I can't be anything but appreciative. Meaning this: thank you, Monkeys.
... bump.
So much negativity. Jeez.
Have you thought about extending your schooling for a year or so? Make sure you justify it well i.e. adding on another major. You really require some kind of hard experience. If graduating is necessary then look to get an internship before in something more like corporate finance as well. Apply and resume drop to both but also prepare by aiming low as well.
Even though you are at a non target, I'm sure there is some kind of Almuni network that you can possibly use to your advantage as well. Networking miracles can happen.
InDerSchweiz, where are you located now? Are you in the States?
If so, you might strongly want to consider a Master's program in Switzerland. You'll have many networking opportunities....the one thing barrier is the work permit....I'm not too sure about if it's going to be a barrier, I'm finding out myself at the moment.
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