What are some of the top earners in Toronto pulling yearly, and how do they compare to some of the top buyside roles (in Canada)?
I know if somebody is serious about maximizing their lifetime earnings they would move to the states asap but I was just wondering.
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In the Toronto banking scene, particularly among the highest echelons of investment banking, Directors and Managing Directors (MDs) can see significant yearly earnings. Based on the WSO Dataset, here's a breakdown:
Directors: Their compensation can range all in roughly from CAD 650,000 to CAD 1 million. This bracket represents a substantial earning potential within the Canadian banking sector, showcasing the lucrative nature of senior positions.
Managing Directors (MDs): For MDs, the earnings potential increases notably, with figures ranging from CAD 1 million to CAD 2 million, and in exceptional cases of being a complete rainmaker, possibly reaching up to CAD 3 million max. This highlights the upper echelon of banking compensation in Toronto, indicating that top performers in this role can achieve earnings comparable to high-level buyside roles within Canada.
Comparatively, top buyside roles in Canada, such as those in Private Equity, Hedge Funds, and Venture Capital, also offer high compensation packages. However, these roles often come with a different set of expectations, responsibilities, and risk/reward profiles compared to investment banking. The top earners in these buyside roles can also reach or exceed the CAD 1 million mark annually, depending on the firm's performance and the individual's role within the firm.
While it's commonly perceived that moving to the United States could potentially increase one's earnings due to the larger market and higher salary benchmarks, especially in places like New York City (Wall Street), the Toronto market still offers substantial earning potential for those in senior investment banking roles. The decision to move should consider various factors, including personal preferences, lifestyle, and career goals, beyond just the financial aspect.
Sources: Bay Street VS Wall Street Investment Banker, Toronto - Boutique Investment Banking Compensation, Canadian BBs in the US? Pay structure, Presitge?, Toronto Satellite BB vs. Canadian Banks
It is hard to compare the two as the top PE individuals have ownership in the firm + carry that would dwarf banker compensation given the destruction of the partner model for boutique investment banks.
It also depends on what you define as a top player and compensation. Would you count stock awards for Bruce Flatt / someone at Brookfield as compensation?
With that being said, for some of the more creative commission structured agreements at a boutique in a boom year (see mining / cannabis boom) you could quickly see total payouts in the teens of millions without having an ownership stake in a firm
Likely looking for more of a comparison between average MDs in IB vs PE rather than a PE founder or super senior partner
Super senior partners were exactly what I was looking to compare it to
bump
Left lane associates, especially Chrissy. He is now a thought after advisor servicing corporations on mergers and acquisitions globally. He got so good that he deleted his schooling off the face of the earth, went back in time and changed his summer analyst role to a full time with a year of experience.
Wtf is a thought after advisor? You mean after thought advisor.
Can someone explain the lore behind this? seems like greasy Toronto boutique gossip.
It’s not the boutique it’s the guy who lied about working at Jefferies.
Chrissy
Jeff Watchorn at BMO is a known rainmaker - gets a ton of Brookfield deals and also services Bell (among some other enormous clients in Canada).
My colleagues at BX must all be on the list...
The top guys at eight made $20's to low $30's during the cannabis run. I'd say most of the group heads at top groups (RBC m&a, BMO MM and RE etc) hit 8 figures on a semi regular basis. Most MDs a good year is 7 figures and you'd be shocked how many made $4-500k (or less ) in the last two years.
what’s eight?
Eight Capital
Group heads at RBC do not regularly or semi-regularly hit $10mm+, especially not in Canada. You'd need some kind of direct drive bonus structure for that. The head of all Canadian IB is like $5mm, the joint co-heads of US more like $7mm.
It’s funny how often people overestimate big bank compensation. They don’t need to pay commission because most business comes in ‘because we are RBC’. Pensions / Brookfield will always need the bank’s balance sheets, whereas the MD at some random boutique is genuinely leveraging their relationship and selling
You don't think Ben Mandell hasn't hit over $10? I'd be surprised. Same for a Chris Henstock or Tony Reale at BMO.
I'd agree though, the vast majority of MDs in Canada, especially at banks make $750-1.5 a year.
Don't think so bro - I can't sit here and claim I know exactly what they made but for reference... know a couple rainmakers in NYC office with 30-50mm PnLs and they're at $5mm. Unless you're at an EB or potentially partner at GS, very hard to crack >$5mm at BBs
I'm not disagreeing with you in general but the group heads for RBC m&a, BMO metals and mining, and BMO real estate I mentioned all would have bigger top line than $30m.
I know a US MM group head who's made $10-15 every year in the last 5 and he's not even NYC based. Not saying who but his head of banking and his CEO have both told confirmed to me.
It does happen, but just like I said in my first post, there's a lot of Canadian MDs who have made well under $400 in the last couple of years too.
Yeah agree that group heads have P&L in the hundreds of millions, I was providing an example of a single banker bringing in $30-50mm of non-lending revenue; group heads don't get the benefit of a proportional increase in comp by aggregating the individual p&ls of bankers technically underneath them. They get credit for the stuff they originate plus some on top for their group management. I don't know individual contract details of the individuals you mentioned, if they have a direct drive component to their comp then maybe. I'd love for that to be true just so I can dream of the upside but I know that 99% of MDs are RBC are not on that structure (I think there may be a vice-chair that has a different arrangement); US MM banks are again different. Yes, I'd expect the top rainmaker at WB or Jeff can make in that ballpark but they're not highly regulated, public, commercial banks.
.
Is that really true? Saying that a partner at a small TO boutique made over $10M in a year? Do you have any reputable sources that actually confirmed this? Can anyone at Eight confirm that some of the partners made that much money? Seems like a all lot of money for a small operation
It’s boom cycles for deals the banks usually wouldn’t do. Direct drive structures are typically low double digits, so if there is enough volume on random weed follow-ons and IPOs where you are ripping 25% into your pocket, that’s realistically sub a billion dollars in equity capital raised. Again, hard to think about for a boutique but you need to put yourself back in 2018ish
I know how much Attanasio made at Eight during the cannabis run from multiple people who know, in some cases probably to the dollar and it was a hell of a lot more than $10m.
That said, he's a unique case and my above comments still stand. You're asking how much MDs make in Canada, I think I'm probably the only MD commenting on this post, take from that what you will.
It's got to be someone on a partnership or direct drive model, though not consistently. Looking at the Canaccord, Eight types for a blowout in a good financing year.
Not a popular opinion, but it's the truth: Peter McGrath from Setter Capital is worth $250mm.
Insane
Why isn’t it popular lol - who gives a fuck if a guy who owns his own successful firm is worth a ton?
I don't think you understand what an opinion is
For context from the cannabis bull market, look no further than Graham Saunders at Canaccord. WSJ article pre-covid.
Paywalled - how much they mention?
"It isn’t clear whether Mr. Saunders held on to his Aurora investment or for how long. If he held on to it through a series of public offerings, private placements and mergers for which Canaccord acted as the company’s adviser, his C$800,000 investment in the two financings that year would have been worth almost C$45 million when Aurora’s stock price hit its high of C$15.07 a share in 2018. Even at current valuations, Mr. Saunders’s stake would be worth roughly C$9 million. That potential return doesn’t include fees he earned as a banker for his work with the company.
Mr. Saunders followed the same strategy in more than 100 other deals, investing an average of roughly C$100,000 in each, according to people familiar with the matter."
Not a banker per se, but can we bring back Michael Wekerle? Legend
Wek is a fucking legend and one of the most colorful characters I've ever come across in my career. Incredibly sharp dude with a massive focus problem lol. Super tragic story. Last time we crossed paths, walking to a meeting on the PATH and he's handing out roses to random women for Vday.
Love that, legend is right. Incredible talent and a fun guy as well.
That dude looks like Buffalo Bill from Silence of the Lambs. Creeps me out and dresses like a woman.
legendary stories though
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