White Male offer rate at my BB was like 30% (Srs)
All diversity in my group got offers.
Honestly, if you are an above average intelligence white male (but not genius), choose your groups/banks wisely. You want to be in the top 30% against your race/gender. So if in normal times you could go to JP Morgan and get an offer, now, consider interning at UBS/Barclays or something.
Following
If you are a straight white/asian male. Good luck. Return offer roundtables are incorporating race and gender into the mix. Really sad to see
EDIT: Lol at the MS from diversity hires. If you dont believe me, ask anyone that sits in on return offer round tables. There is a quota for diversities that makes it roughly ~4-5x easier to get offer than non diverse. The quota effectively only makes diverse kids compete with other diverse kids who are measurably worse than non-diverse kids
The white/asian males who make it through must be amazing given the wild diversity hiring banks have been doing recently.
I understand the theoretical argument that clients want their service providers to be diverse, but in reality, does anyone give a fuck? Seems like clients who are passing over banks / law firms / accountants / consultancies on the basis of racial diversity are edge cases, not the norm. Hope this behavior (and broader line of thinking) stops.
Ok this is gonna be the last time I talk about this topic because anybody and everybody that even hints at DEI initiatives being anything besides the worst thing imaginable gets MS'd.
Stop. Complaining. About. Being. Straight, White, and Male.
This group (myself included) is at such an advantage in literally every other facet of life, sans college applications (which is soon not going to be the case... apparently [SCOTUS rule means nothing imo]).
I have no other way to put it than this:
Do you guys remember the grind of recruiting? The incessant networking and practically begging for a job by trying to find some sort of connection with a banker to get them to like you? I want you to think back about how many of those bankers were white men.
I probably did 100 phone calls/interviews.
Here are the stats:
If you can't connect the dots why the DEI programs exist, then idk what to tell you. Is it BS they have way easier interviews? Yes. Is it BS that (if this post is true) returns are lower for straight white men? Yes.
But if you really got it like that, this entire DEI thing should give you a mean-streak and the lower return rates shouldn't matter because then you truly got it out of merit. I wear the 'harder' path of a white male as a badge of honor, not as a woe-is-me victim card. Some of you guys want to make yourselves to be the victim so fucking bad it's repulsive.
To hammer the point one FINAL time, I'll ask this:
Would you HONESTLY rather be a straight white male, or be a POC (man or woman, gay or straight)? Not in a when-it's-convenient context, but live your whole life as one of the options.
Sorry man but this is a bad take. When controlling for income, URM groups are absolutely not worse off in every other facets of life. Furthermore, telling me you only saw 2 POC and 2 women means you are either lying or just completely misinformed. 50% of most Analyst classes are mandated as women. You are really expecting people to believe that throughout your ENTIRE networking grind you saw only 4 non white males?
People's issue is that people are being discriminated against based on their race/gender in a very meaningful way (see Harvard lawsuit data). Furthermore, why do only some minority groups deserve this positive discrimination? I don't see Mongolians or Laos origin individuals getting anything. You are completely coping if you think diversity recruiting isint a grift utilized to appease ESG interests and feign the look of being "diverse" when most of the "diverse" people are rich people who happen to be a certain race/gender
"When controlling for income" lol that's rich (no pun intended).
We're not talking about this in a vacuum. Because in a vacuum, nobody's judged on race or gender. That's not real life, however, nor is DEI.
Do you honestly think the majority of DEI internships are going to rich POC? How many rich POC do you think there are?
To flip your stupid narrative, let's "control for race" but move across a spectrum of income. Whose more likely to get the job; Tanner from a blue-collar family with no connections, or Cooper from the son of a big-oil partner?
In a vacuum, again, it wouldn't matter. In the real world, it absolutely does.
So let's put everything into real world perspective; lower income, POC, and trouble connecting with current employees (as much as the comment below refutes this point, there is ABSOLUTELY a sub-conscious controller of how well you connect with someone). Seems like an impossible equation to get a highly sought-after job.
Someone else being the same gender and race as you is not a prerequisite to getting along with them. Especially in a professional setting.
DEI initiatives are corrupt and I hope they are made illegal soon.
Ya… this poster above is a racist, they've just been brainwashed to think they're doing the right thing. Imagine automatically equating POC with low income… yikes. Or white equated with rich. Really sad to see those types of generalizations / stereotypes being expelled so proudly.
Never a good idea to infer about someone based on their skin color.
Implying the 96 "white males" they allegedly connected with during recruiting were less interested in networking with POC is exactly the type of "everyone is a racist" insidious thinking that needs to stop. Ironic to make that point after calling someone a racist but they gave me enough real evidence in writing. Not going to make it very far with a mind like that…
I literally came from this. I spent a significant part of my childhood in a trailer, it just wasn't part of a trailer park.
Yes I am. The biggest fucking key to making it out of the environments we grew up in was faking it until you made it, as I'm sure you know. And there is absolutely still a bias toward women in the corporate world. The largest point you (along with others) seem to keep missing is that we have advantages we don't even acknowledge. We've never had to think about managing expectations or having a certain persona or any of the other BS women have to deal with, because we aren't women. So try combining that background and then add the extra hassles women have to deal with in the workplace, and then still try to fake it until you make it.
The delivery (bolding of words, tone) of this post is so cringe and makes the absence of an actual argument even worse.
"Would I rather be a straight white male or a "POC" (cringe...)" is not the question because IB seats aren't available to random white people or random "POC". They are the 8th step in a never ending academic/professional jousting match (as Peter Thiel calls it) that requires exceptional performance in the first 7 steps. People from lower, working and even lower-middle class backgrounds aren't even aware there is such a jousting match and therefore are not in the pool of potential applicants. As such, the beneficiaries of banking diversity programs are upper middle class black (and increasingly "hispanic" - I know some blonde hair, blue eyed "hispanic" kids at ivies that wouldn't sniff a top 50 if they checked the white box...) kids. These people don't need charity and the banks get nothing from admitting them to their IB classes, as their relatively lower commitment to the path leads to a much higher incidence of burning out and/or under performing.
Bro is literally propping up the same policies analing underpriviliged white kids like himself. This is also a big fuck you to every other ambitious hick you grew up with in the boonies lol.
“So, aside from being at a disadvantage in both college admissions and employment, there are no disadvantages to being a member of these groups.”
Those seem like pretty big disadvantages to me.
As for networking…anyone who isn’t a Wharton fratboy from Greenwich or Scarsdale whose hobbies include golf and clubbing in Ibiza will struggle through networking. Do you really think that Brad Chadley from Morgan Stanley can relate to a middle class Chinese-American who went to Stuyvesant?
I’m not denying that there are advantages to being a white male — of course there are — but it’s not as if there is not institutional discrimination against white and Asian males in college admissions and “elite” employment.
thank you. people on this site are f’ing idiotic lol. 100% true
By crying about potential biases based on gender and race, white/asian males are literally doing the same thing as diversity hires. Everyone is just victimizing themselves. Stop blaming other people for your problems.
Hey buddy,
the difference is that
a.) I am indian. I am a social minority that has gotten brutalized by white people as well. You ever see the stereotypes I face different, weird, smelly. I have no representation in media etc etc. I do have the right to be angry. I cannot integrate as easily in this country as black and latinos
b.) While I suffer the consequences of racism. I get no benefits. I actually have it harder than white people in terms of even going to a target school and getting a banking job. Latinos and blacks still have more industry connections that most indians at this time.
but heres the thing, I don't even need special treatment. But, I literally am getting penalized along with the rest of my asian race for trying to work hard and make the best out of my situation.
I have the worst starting position, the worst acceleration, and the worst outcome. So yeh, it pisses me off when people doing half the work get shit handed to them cause biggots like a.) don't acknowledge racism when it comes to asians cause you stratify the top 1 percent of our population when coming to this country and b.) don't speak against blatant injustice.
Instead of saying toughen up to people who have think critically for once.
Ironically, diversity hiring is by definition literal institutionalised racism.
Hey man don't say that.
All black people even lebrons kids are still facing systemic racism from laws that don't exist anymore. Your being really insensitive.
After 3 years of sitting at various roundtables, I do not recall at any single place actually anyone caring much about gender split for giving offers. To the contrary, during my time at American bank, gender was the least important factor in making the offers and the intake was 20% women, 80% man, and while now is 30 / 70, it does not matter that much. Being female myself, I just find all this drama around DEI making it harder for white males quite weird.
Just to clarify - it is 5 cents on Europe...
Well you clearly aren't at big US BBs in major markets (NYC/London) because those classes are consistently 50/50 split
Indeed - currently I am not at the US bank. What I am observing from my place at European BB in London - HR does not raise remarks during offer giving that “omg, we need to do 50 / 50”
also for US banks where I have friends 50 / 50 is quite driven by ECM and country coverage - at least in London. When you look at pure sector coverage you will be closer to 70 male / 30 female
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