"We are achieving a critical mass of young black bankers who are not bulge bracket quality." - senior black banker, eFinancialCareers

I saw this article in eFinancialCareers (which I've complained about before but made a small exception here) and wanted to post it here as a discussion point. Not sure how true this is, but wanted insight on this from anyone in the centre of BB/EB hiring. 

I am a black man on Wall Street. I'm working for one of the top US banks in a front office role where I work across divisions and my life is not easy. Perversely, the push for diversity is making things harder for people like me.

I'm over a decade in to my career in banking and am at the stage where I hope soon to become a managing director. In theory, I should be advantaged by banks' diversity targets. In reality, I am disadvantaged by them.

My bank and other top banks on Wall Street are going all out to hire black students into junior roles. For many banks, the focus is on targeting historically black colleges and universities and former professional athletes. This is a good aspiration but in reality, many of the historically black colleges and universities are underfunded and don't attract top students. These colleges often rank outside the top 100 colleges in the US, and we find that this shows in the caliber of the people we hire from them.  At the same time, the pressure on managers to make diversity hires means the interview process for black recruits can be less rigorous and we sometimes drop requirements for math and other skills.

Because of this, we are achieving a critical mass of young black bankers who are not bulge bracket quality. Many of them leave of their own accords. Many of them are moved around the firm or exited. A mentality is developing of, "We tried to hire diversity and they are not good enough or qualified to be here." Even though there's this awareness, there's no analysis of our recruitment practices. - We're so focused on showing that we're bringing in young black talent that we're doubling down and over-hiring in anticipation that many of the black hires will leave again. 

This makes life very difficult for people like me. I am a top performer and I am a black man. I still face daily discrimination at work, including from my white boss who persistently ranks other lower performers, with whom he has a personal relationship, above me. I see white people favored when it comes to pay, and when it comes to promotion opportunities. 

At the same time, because the firm is over-indexed towards underperforming junior black staff in an attempt to improve its diversity quotas, I am continuously having to fight the perception that I myself am a diversity hire and am less capable than my peers. I work doubly hard to counter this, but I still face the racial bias that exists at a senior level. Diversity programs are no more than lip service and it's time that banks understand that this problem is about more than flooding the lower ranks with people who they know will not succeed. 

Patrick Carter is a pseudonym

Source: eFinancialCareers 

 
trying_my_best

Why not only hire diversities from top targets then. Increasing diversity doesn't mean you have to compromise to get to them

Just curious - if you place diversity over merit, isn’t that compromising quality for the color of someone’s skin?

"If you always put limits on everything you do, physical or anything else, it will spread into your work and into your life. There are no limits. There are only plateaus, and you must not stay there, you must go beyond them." - Bruce Lee
 

Sharing quotes from a previous article regarding IB and PE recruiting:

https://www.wallstreetoasis.com/comment/3223988#comment-3223988

I have been in the industry for ~6 years and the quality of candidates has decreased materially over time. Based on conversations with friends, this is widely consistent across the board, including IB and PE. At my firm specifically, we are struggling to find any competent, hard working candidates to hire and have burned through 3 of the top PE recruiting firms in the past 12 months because no one can find good candidates. Even analysts from top banks just aren't the same anymore. For context, our latest fund is ~$5B and returns have been consistently top quartile, so definitely not an awareness issue. For anyone who has marketing experience, our industry is having a top-of-the-funnel issue (not enough smart 22 year olds choosing to go into IB), and the competition for the few hungry & competent kids is very high. I think this will ultimately result in the industry becoming very saturated with older professionals at the top and younger generations never moving up the ranks (similar to our government today where most representatives and senators are 70+). It may ultimately result in some very difficult years within PE and IB over the medium term (10-20 years) as Gen X ages out and retires...

alongside this:

at a top target and can honestly tell you the issue is not about a shortage of smart kids trying to get into IB, but rather the fact that the firms choose the shitty candidates, for whatever reason, especially the BBs. I know a lot of brilliant kids who didn’t get great offers or any offers while retards who can’t walk you through an LBO got top BB offers. Don’t blame gen z, blame the banks’ shitty HR/recruiting practices.

 

i don't rlly know. I'm also writing this after a long day, but let's just say even if you pick the best investments for the portfolio on a bottom-up basis, you can still (often) introduce a lot of unintended bets into the portfolio which often times dominate the total active risk, so you need to actively control for that

 

There is not enough supply of quality target diversity kids which is why banks are going elsewhere causing a drop in analyst quality

 

That's not possible, you're saying at every Ivy League, where likely 30%+ of the kids would be considered diversity, there's not enough quality candidates to throw into a front office seat?

There has to be enough kids, I've met so many intelligent people from my class who were considered diverse who could have easily done well in finance.

 

There were definitely more than enough diverse candidates looking to work in finance from my school. I can tell you clearly didn't go to a good school otherwise you wouldn't be making ignorant comments like this lol

 

Diversity aside, literally everything about USA recruiting is radically different from UK. USA discriminates against master's students, UK accepts candidates from literally studying in every location on the planet—unlike US IB that would recruit exclusively from American universities. There are then more than enough high-quality candidates who have had much more experience (especially postgraduate students) & come from literally every corner of the world (including the African universities that place into BofA & Jefferies (with special logistical support))—it all depends on the candidates' personal wish to migrate to London. If I'm not mistaken, USA's talent pool is strictly penultimate year undergrads in USA (& maybe Ivy league MBAs to enter as associates (which doesn't exist outside US—MBAs start as analysts outside USA))

 

There is no world where an MBA (a proper MBA, not a scam course) comes in at the entry level of an undergrad lol, doesn't matter if UK, US, Europe. Can you imagine paying 100k to LBS to come into a bank and have your cohort be 21 year olds? No one would do that, that would be ridiculous. Yet LBS is still collecting fees.

Even if some banks don't have MBA associate programs, often they still hire MBAs (at associate) just less formally.

 

I'd be really curious to know what London banks would hire an MBA as associate without Big 4, PE or other kinds of related-experience (even if it's other FO roles)—all just because of an Ivy League MBA

 

Errr why are you talking about Ivy Leagues in respect of London. You realise there are European schools with MBAs right? INSEAD, HEC, LBS? 

Mate literally just go on LinkedIn, do an alumni search of LBS MBAs in BBs... They are very much around. 

And even if they do have related experience (and I'm not saying that all do), why is that relevant?

 

This ^^^^^ Spot on. I am also diversity (associate level) and I resonate fully with his feeling of his worth/performance being undermined by the large swaths of diversity hires done by the institutions/HR teams without fully vetting them... If you're going to go hire diversity, don't half ass it. It creates the dynamic described above ^ and defeats the purpose of increasing diversity.

 
fastandloud

This ^^^^^ Spot on. 

Which post were you referring to?

"If you always put limits on everything you do, physical or anything else, it will spread into your work and into your life. There are no limits. There are only plateaus, and you must not stay there, you must go beyond them." - Bruce Lee
 

Aw jeez I wonder why. No one could've seen this coming.

"The obedient always think of themselves as virtuous rather than cowardly" - Robert A. Wilson | "If you don't have any enemies in life you have never stood up for anything" - Winston Churchill | "It's a testament to the sheer belligerence of the profession that people would rather argue about the 'risk-adjusted returns' of using inferior tooth cleaning methods." - kellycriterion
 

The diversity pools could include students from the top Masters programs in mathematics, physics, engineering and finance. There most definitely are enough intelligent people from these places in addition to people from top undergraduate universities.

 
arctictundra

could

of course they could but don't, that's what the article is highlighting

Quant (ˈkwänt) n: An expert, someone who knows more and more about less and less until they know everything about nothing.
 

Voluptates tempore repellat architecto. Est eveniet vitae consectetur vel consequuntur quibusdam. Dolorem temporibus occaecati at sint qui explicabo iure.

 

Velit corporis quo quia repellat excepturi. Sequi animi ut deserunt ipsum enim. Aut corrupti odit autem nisi eum eaque et. Accusamus in at ad mollitia magni quas odit.

Eligendi et aut fugit sed maxime vel. Sequi dolor et minima ducimus et. Est dignissimos voluptatem inventore quos.

Eum quae quis voluptatem quia ut repellat quas excepturi. Odio vero placeat quis ab nobis repellendus odio.

"The obedient always think of themselves as virtuous rather than cowardly" - Robert A. Wilson | "If you don't have any enemies in life you have never stood up for anything" - Winston Churchill | "It's a testament to the sheer belligerence of the profession that people would rather argue about the 'risk-adjusted returns' of using inferior tooth cleaning methods." - kellycriterion

Career Advancement Opportunities

May 2024 Investment Banking

  • Jefferies & Company 02 99.4%
  • Lazard Freres No 98.8%
  • Harris Williams & Co. 25 98.3%
  • Goldman Sachs 17 97.7%
  • JPMorgan Chase 04 97.1%

Overall Employee Satisfaction

May 2024 Investment Banking

  • Harris Williams & Co. 18 99.4%
  • JPMorgan Chase 10 98.8%
  • Lazard Freres 05 98.3%
  • Morgan Stanley 07 97.7%
  • William Blair 03 97.1%

Professional Growth Opportunities

May 2024 Investment Banking

  • Lazard Freres 01 99.4%
  • Jefferies & Company 02 98.9%
  • Goldman Sachs 17 98.3%
  • Moelis & Company 07 97.7%
  • JPMorgan Chase 05 97.1%

Total Avg Compensation

May 2024 Investment Banking

  • Director/MD (5) $648
  • Vice President (21) $373
  • Associates (91) $259
  • 3rd+ Year Analyst (14) $181
  • Intern/Summer Associate (33) $170
  • 2nd Year Analyst (68) $168
  • 1st Year Analyst (205) $159
  • Intern/Summer Analyst (146) $101
notes
16 IB Interviews Notes

“... there’s no excuse to not take advantage of the resources out there available to you. Best value for your $ are the...”

Leaderboard

success
From 10 rejections to 1 dream investment banking internship

“... I believe it was the single biggest reason why I ended up with an offer...”