What’s your favorite wine?
Moving into a new apartment soon and there’s a built-in wine chiller in the kitchen, looking to take advantage of it and stock up. Having just graduated, my wine palette is not the best but looking to change that. Drop some recs below to get your boy started.
Champagne welcomed as well.
Caymus
Google says it pairs well with lamb? Bet.
lamb is GOATed... highly underrated
Great red that everyone will like from the wine snob to the amateur. If you don't like Caymus, you're not alive.
Well shit, I must be dead because Caymus tastes like flat oxidized wine to me. I'm a big wine nerd so when I bought my first bottle of Caymus and tried it I thought maybe I got a bad bottle, no big deal I'll get another bottle and try it again at some point. A few months later I'm at a client dinner, we order a bottle of Caymus and same thing, everyone else obviously was enjoying it as most people do so we get another bottle and same thing, tastes like a corked bottle. Considering how renowned Caymus is as being great wine I go all the way to the point of attending a dinner where the wine being showcased and the only wine being served with each dish is from the Wagner Family of wines, of course including Caymus and I did not like a single one.
Not to say Caymus is bad it just doesn't suit my palate I guess.
Come on now....it's called being a drunk.
I can kind of see where you're coming from. I believe they do a bunch of chemistry so every bottle tastes basically the same, sort of how like Starbucks obliterates its beans into uniformity by roasting the shit of their beans.
It tastes fine but isn't anything exciting. Nice, safe, and a big enough price tag that it's a nice safe option for client events. Happy to have a couple glasses on someone else's dime, but not something I'll ever pay for out of pocket.
I am by no means a wine snob but my personal preference generally is just to grab a random <$30 Italian red from a vineyard that's been around for awhile. I'd say 9/10 wines I buy I like. Not Italian, but I like Sterling a lot for a cheap cab.
I’ve never tried a reisling that I didn't like.
Added to the list, appreciate it
Personally love Neropasson and Ripassas
Ripassa it is!
If it’s free it’s me
Can’t beat free99
A very exciting thing that's for sure. Admittedly I don't have ton of 'producers' that I focus on - I tend to buy interesting grapes, styles, etc. within a price point.
1. For champagne, I'd check out 'grower champagne' - queue the jokes. But seriously, a lot of online places have really good or interesting stuff that's call it $30-45 a bottle. You get more variation and flavor profiles than the larger houses like Moet and Vueve who exist to churn out identical profiles YoY (which, in all fairness, is the whole point of blending NV bottles - but anyway). Cremant d'Alsace is also worth looking at. As an aside, and not necessarily champagne related, Loire valley makes some great wines so I'd check out some producers in there.
2. Personally I would start with some more 'value' bottles out of places like Spain or South America. Rioja's are great value out of Spain - Tempranillo is a wonderful grape generally, and can create a lot of flavor at the $10-20 dollar price point along with plenty of others. Argentina and Chile both have great Malbec's and Cabs as well - again, these tend to come in at lower price points and bat above their price range considerably. There are many, many others - but good places to start. Australia also has some great options - tend to be a bit jammier, but try a few out.
3. Italy deserves it's own bullet point - partly because I'm obsessed with it, and partly because their wines are simply awesome. Starting out there is a ton of ground to cover. Like France you end up with a lot of grapes (Sangiovese, Nebbiolo, Anglianco, etc.) that get intermixed with styles and/or classifications (i.e. Chianti, Barolo, Brunello, Amarone). Frankly just start with some Langhe Nebbiolo, Super Tuscans, Rosso Di Montalcino, Montlepuciano D'Abruzzo, etc. Those are good entry points - some will lead you towards Brunellos and Barolos, others will lead you elsewhere. Lambrusco is fun too - Lini 910 is a great producer, that has some great sparkling selections that aren't sweet as well.
4. France - you can do Bordeaux, burgundy, whatever. Start with Rhone Valley - Coted Du Rhone (syrah grape primarily) are a great place to start. E. Guigal is widely available and good - there's plenty of others as well.
5. Candidly to expand your palette - I highly recommend just buying anything and everything. Pick an area, maybe it's the U.S. to start - get a cab from Sonoma, Paso, Napa, Walla Walla, etc. Try them next to each other - see how the different styles or regions play off each other. Same with Pinot or red blends.
If I don't stop now I'll burn my entire morning. Happy to throw out any other ideas to you.
Appreciate the feedback, very insightful. Mind if I PM? Have a few follow up questions.
Not at all - fire away. Happy to answer here as well. Whatever works.
Would definitely take an intro wine tasting class or at least go to some casual tastings (a lot of wine shops will have regular free tastings) - everyone will have their own specific tastes / recs but a class will give you a nice framework on how to discern flavors, quality, and food pairings and a starter kit to start trying stuff.
Great idea. Currently looking up classes in my area
$50 range - Prisoner
$15-$20 Range - Meiomi, Pessimist ,Lapiz Luna, Conundrum
Cheap: Sterling
Prisoner has been added to the shopping list. Pretty interesting background too
Agree. Dave Phinney started this as a virtual winery - he didn't own the vineyard, but was able to buy the grapes, use rental crush and bottling facilities and then market the wine online. Pretty cool. I can't remember the name of the company that he sold the Prisoner brand to, but they sold it to Constellation.
is the monkey shit because I have bad taste? genuine question...
I'm not the one that threw the monkey shit, but guessing that it is because these are very widely available/large production volume wines from large brands (especially the Prisoner and Meiomi which are owned by Constellation). Some of these large wine labels (Meiomi in particular) are also criticized for allegedly adding flavors/additives to their wines (google Mega Purple). Having said that, these wines are made in popular styles so if you enjoy them, go for it.
I definitely enjoy The Prisoner, but haven't bought it since Constellation bought the brand (from a company that bought it from the original creator). They just keep bumping up the price and the value isn't what it once was.
Cabernet Sauvignon: anything mid valley, personally I love Stag’s Leap. Not the Artemis line though. Beaulieu’s Georges de Latour is another great one.
Chardonnay: Ashes&Diamonds is stellar and relatively cheap, Chateau Montelena Estate is a classic.
Champagne: Domaine Carneros, Paradigm Rosé.
Interested in Domaine Carneros. Do you have a personal favorite?
Check below, I must have misclicked the reply button.
The Ultra Brut and Estate Brut Cuvée were particular highlights.
Aubert, Peter Michael, Chateau D’Yquem.
Pinot Noir generally, Russian River Valley and Willamette Valley AVAs especially.
+1 for most pinot from WV
Cheval Blanc, DRC
Another idea is a wine subscription box. The WSJ has a pretty good one. You’ll get a bunch of different types and it’ll come with cards with information on the wines (what their flavor profile is, what to pair it with, description of the region).
i don’t think any of the wine is mind blowing but it’s an easy way to get like 15 varied bottles at good prices and fun to read about the different kinds of wine when you start drinking them.
Thanks, going to check this out!
Anything from the Provence, Rhone or Bordeaux regions of France. Literally anything. Never had a bad bottle no matter the price. Though I don’t drink enough wine to explore all the great regions of the world so I stick with what I know. Haha. Reds from Bordeaux and rose from Provence are great.
For a good Pinot Noir and Chardonnay < $20 check out Bread & Butter. Good Napa grapes at a great price point.
If you are completely new to wine, don't even bother with all of this European stuff. Just start out with a bunch of different stuff from the Americas so you figure out what you like.
Begin really generally with just comparing reds vs whites, sweet vs dry, full-bodied vs light. Then testing out all the different varietals to see if any stick out to you (either in a good way or a bad one). And then try out some blends too, because that opens up a ton of possibilities based on just the 100 or so popular varietals. Plus, do all of this sometimes with food and sometimes without. When you've done all that, then you can start exploring things like varietals #101 to #10000, specific regions, particular vintages.
At some point along the way you'll decide it's worth it to start paying a little extra in shipping and taxes to get your hands on European wine. But it's really not worth it until you're at least halfway into your journey. Not that much of a difference per bottle, but will sum up to probably literally thousands of dollars by the time you have tried enough wine to pick out a European wine vs an American wine of similar type and quality.
This is honestly bad advice. European wines aren't materially more expensive than their American counterparts, not holding all else equal. You can buy a stunning Second Growth Bordeaux for $200... which is about the same as you'll pay for one of the really good-but-not-cult wines from Napa like Plumpjack or Caymus. And there can be a meaningful difference - Pinot Noir from Sonoma may as well be an entirely different wine than Pinot Noir from Burgundy.
Obviously some of this depends on where you live; in a major metro area, most wine stores, especially the better ones and not the usual wine and spirits shop near the train station, will stock plenty of great and affordable European wines. If you live in a small town, then you might be more limited to domestic fare.
Are you really suggesting that a fresh college grad who's new to wine starts out by buying $200 bottles?
I'm sure there's plenty of decently cheap European options, but I've usually found Argentinean and Chilean stuff to be even more affordable. And that is really all OP needs at this point, because drinking any new wine without even knowing what you like is just gambling. He has to figure out what his tastes are, and then he can start looking up quality wines that are expected to align with those tastes.
Whoops wrong spot
Go to your local wine shop and talk to the people that run it. They’ll give you good suggestions based on what you tell them and will explain some of the intricacies of the wine to you too. My wife used to think red wines = tannic and then we went to our local wine shop and got them to recommend some more medium bodied wines and now she loves Malbecs, Pinots, Tempranillos, etc. Have been able to even get her to drink some Syrah and now working on cabs.
Also just start scanning stuff on Vivino. Plenty of 4.0+ in the $20 range and I find that that I like about 8/10 so the rankings are usually pretty accurate to me.
Budget - J Lohr, Justin, Juggernaut, Meiomi, Treana (if you can find it)
Mid Tier - Austin Hope, D2, Turnbull, Caymus, Artemis
High End - Opus One, Rutherford Quintessa, Leonetti, Continuum
Some of my go-to red wines:
Cab - Austin Hope ($40 - $75 depending on where you get it from...under $50 is a steal for this), ZD 50th Anniversary ($75-85), Quilt ($40 - $55), Chateau Ste. Michelle Indian Wells (great cheap option at $11-15, but have to let it breath from 45 min or more)
Petite Syrah/Syrah - Stag's Leap Petite ($40 - $50), Two Hands Bella's Garden ($60 - 70). Think a lot of people sleep on Syrah's
Pinot Noir - Ken Wright Cellars Willamette Valley ($25 - 35), Flowers ($45 - 55), Willamette Valley Vineyards Whole Cluster ($18 - $22...really liked the first couple bottles I got of this, it's a big/rich Pinot but I have had a bottle that was a dud)
Long post for wine rec's and context around getting into "collecting." Feel free to comment or shoot me a PM for more information.
Before choosing wine, think what you will drink it with. This drives red versus white and the type of grape. Red meat naturally pairs with red wine, while lighter meals pair with white. I specifically eat a lot of lamb which means most of my wine is cabernet sauvingon, but I also love salmon and sea bass which drives some pinot and syrah in my cellar too (and because fuck white wine). Although, there is great white wine and I have a couple bottles in the cellar for that too (great for crab cakes, summer salads, etc.)
I grew up near Napa with family in the industry so my bias is this region. To go one level deeper, I prefer (like most people) the most popular AVAs Stag's Leap and Oakville with my most favorite being Rutherford (love the "Rutherford dust" from the volcanic terroir). However, quick shoutout to Calistoga in Northern Napa, the recent climate change in the area means warmer weather across the valley, benefiting the northern AVAs, but specifically Calistoga. Also, be careful with the Carneros AVA (only a few reputable wineries are truly producing "good" wine from that region, the whites can be extremely strong while the reds can be extremely underwhelming).
When buying bottles, you MUST consider the vintage. A great year at a "middle of the road" winery can literally rival a bad year at a "top tier" winery. Napa has had many great vintages recently, 2012, 2014, 2016, and 2019 (a little spotty though because of fires) have shown consistently well across the board (and my 2021 barrel tastings have shown this has the potential to be a great vintage too). However, I have not had any luck with the 2020 vintage, and many Napa Valley wineries have forgone their 2020 vintages because of horrible fires. If you see a 2020 at a big discount, it is probably smoke tainted and you must avoid it at all costs (this is also why 2019 is flying off the shelves and 2016 bottles are not readily available anymore). 2018 has many decent options too, but I personally prefer the 2016 and 2019 vintages to it.
For recommendations, I will provide choices across an entire price range. You might find some of these on sale, but always be wary and buy from reputable sellers. Also, you can get discounts if you buy half (6 bottles) or full (12 bottles) crates. Lastly, most of my recommendations are more recent vintages (I am in my mid 20's and try to buy directly from the wineries). My current favorites in my cellar include:
2016 Far Niente Dolce (Napa, 80ish for a half bottle, honorary dessert wine, this is so sweet though that it better be your dessert and paired with something tart like blue cheese, ages amazingly well and will go from yellow to gold in 20 years)
When getting into wine, I believe it is better to focus on "depth" compared to breadth. Find a region you like, and get into the weeds about that region. For more obviously it was Napa. You will learn a ton about the end-to-end production of wine that you can then take as a framework to learning other regions. Plus, nothing like ordering wine for a table and being able to have a true conversation with the restaurant Som about a region. For me it is obviously Napa, and I cannot tell you how many girls are attracted to someone who knows their way around a wine list (same for business dinners).
For stocking your cellar, I have a 3 tiered system. 50% goes to "tier 3." These are my "inexpensive yet quality" wines that are great to drink but won't make my heart hurt if I am with someone that doesn't know much about wine. These are my 2019 Justins, etc. Take these to parties, low key dinners, etc. and you will have the best wine (trust me, this is nice wine for 95% of the world) there without "wasting" amazing stuff. I can buy a case of 2019 Justin Cabs for the price of one 2019 Far Niente Cave Collection Cab. Tier 2 is 25% of my cellar and these are my "mid-range" that I open with people I care about, people that know wine, or people I care about. These are wines that I want to enjoy, have the people around me enjoy, but don't feel like they need to be reserved for special occasions, such as my N&N and Col Solare recommendations above. For most of the 5% wine of drinkers, this is quality wine. Lastly, 25% of my cellar is "tier 1." These are my crown jewels, saving for something special. Think my 2019 Far Niente Cave Collection Cab and other producers like Opus, Chateau Margaux, etc. This is wine I only open with the people I love and to celebrate accomplishments. Plus, I hope to age them so having a bunch of tier 2 and 3 wine that is quality but inexpensive keeps me from opening them prematurely.
Lastly, join a membership or two. Not right away, find something you like. But once you do, build a relationship with the winery, go to their events, buy their wine, and become an "expert" in their style. You will get special deals in a few years.
Welcome to wine and enjoy it. There is so much to know, so much to enjoy, and so much to experience. I've now toured multiple Napa AVAs, Washington, Left Bank Bordeaux, and Barossa Valley in South Australia and learn so much every time. Most people are lucky if they get to tour one or two of these regions in their life so please make the most of any trips you do.
Very insightful feedback. Lamb is also one of my favorite foods, so that is great info to keep in mind. Curious, what’s the backstory on the personal vendetta against the whites?
Question on ‘aging’ wine, how does that work? As soon as the bottle is opened, does that cancel out any potential aging that could’ve occurred? Additionally, when it comes to the vintage, is that the year the grapes were harvest and/or when the wine was actually ready for distribution?
Funny enough, 2019 Justin Cab is one of the few wines on this thread that I’ve actually tried before haha. Thought the bottle design was clean, and I had a girl coming over that night so I went for it and it was a great decision. A fan of your tier system as well, taken note of that as it seems very practical.
I’ve been appreciating the content you and all the other posters have been providing. Not only with the specific wine recs, but by also adding history, purchasing methods, etc. to the picture. Slowing picking up on the lingo being used and have found myself going down different rabbit holes on the topics discussed. Another poster mentioned going to wine tastings, found a place in the area I’ll be living that offer classes with different food options (first one I plan on taking is with pizza). Those trips seem like great experiences and something I’ll have to keep in mind once my feet are in the water.
Off top of head for Pinot Noir:
$40-$70: Domaine Serene, Domaine Drouhin, Merry Edwards, Cristom, Flowers, Walter Hansel, Cakebread, Beaux Freres
$25-$40: Foxen, Ken Wright, Patricia Green, Gary Farrell, Frank Family, Boen, Calera, Banshee
Bear in mind, many of these producers have wines at varying price points.
Chardonay - Peter Michael
-Champagne - Jean Laurent - Brut Blanc de Blancs Champagne Reserve, and Perriet Joulet
Rose- a cheat code is buying anything from Provence
Lambrusco is awesome. Also, anything from Long Meadow Ranch in St. Helena
Any recommendations? I've been buying a lot of Lini 910 across the board but open to others.
Cleto Chiarli Centenario if you can find it. Whole Foods might carry it
Get the app Vivino and start scanning in each wine you try, it starts to recommend you different wines you’ll like depending on how you rate them!!
Downloaded, thanks
I'm a big fan of the German/Alsatian white wines (Riesling, Gruner Veltliner, Gewürztraminer).
Get the vivino app.
Also try taking a basic wine appreciation class using the WSET curriculum. You can evaluate any grape/region on just a few characteristics (taste, tannins, full/light body, acidity) and it's not hard to know how any glass falls on each of those spectrums, but it might be hard to know what you're tasting without a decent instructor. Before I took such a class I knew what I liked but I didn't always know why I liked it. Having that framework was super helpful.
Decoy - red wine so won’t fill your chiller. But it’s the go to a sommelier at a restaurant I worked at recommended for people who didn’t want to break the bank but wanted a good wine
Maybe this is more specific than what you're after, but one of the most distinct / enjoyable experiences I've had with wine was when I got my hands on a bottle of Les Vins de Cabanon - Canta Manana. Excellent stuff without the silly price tag (believe I paid ~$45).
A bit easier to find (and always a reasonably priced favorite) is Lammidia Bianchetto. Both of these can be found online occasionally.
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