Working from home: Is your boss always online?
Since I'm in the loan industry we are picking up a bit. I'm new and started a month ago. The boss yelled at me on Friday and today about productivity. I think she's gone crazy because of COVID. Trying to pick up the speed, but I'm still new.. Anyways, she's always online. She sent emails on Saturday and Sunday night, plus she gets up around 4AM everyday and starts work at 5. She even sent emails on Easter/Passover Sunday night. WTF?
Is this normal? I kinda want to jump ship now...
Prepare to be fucked by IB. The lube is in the corner.
I had an alternative assets gig for 3 years and my boss would work less than 40 hours every week. I’m pretty sure she was organised more than the whole office.
it's also possible she hates her family.
as long as you're getting your shit done and keep an active network, I wouldn't worry
She's prob stressed and her way of dealing with it is to appear to be working all the time. Remember she's got people to report to as well. She's prob shooting off emails at all god knows hours to her managers/seniors or whomever she wants to impress that she's taking this opportunity in her stride.
Sadly people try to tell you this is not true but you need to do it. You need to find a way to appear to her you are working all the time as well. Esp you are new right now you need to set the 'right tone'. If it means you autoset a 'report' to be sent at 2:00 (set a random second) AM tomorrow you do that. If it means you need to get up at 4:30AM just ahead of her once in a while to surprise her, do that. It's a mind game. You worked very hard to get where you are don't let this bring down you down already.
I had a boss who always used to come into work at 6:30AM, and I lived all the way in West London it took me almost 1 hour to get into work. But I. made sure I came in juuuuuuuuuust 5min before he walks in to set up all my sheets/pages and on Bloomberg. It's stupid. But after a few weeks of this even if I started turning up after him, it didn't matter. He already got it in his head I am a very hard worker by this point.
+1, sad but true. This is how generations of otherwise smart people conflate busy with productive, and everyone is worse off for it.
These are big fucking moves hahaha.
I believe there is a way to catch auto-send. My team had an analyst who was caught for this before.
To OP: If you really need to do it, better do it yourself and prepare to get up at appropriate time. Also, don't go back to bed immediately as you may receive comments in 5 minutes after sending the email out
I've had a pretty successful (mid) career with never doing this. Of course there are times I've worked late to get things done, but in my career I've never sent an email at 2am and I've NEVER auto-scheduled an email. Honestly, these are just desperate tactics for someone who either isn't good at their job or doesn't have confidence in their abilities. Obviously, if this is your boss that presents a dilemma, but I wouldnt cave into this behavior.
I'm more senior now and it was admittedly pushing the limits, but last year I signed up as an assistant coach for my sons baseball team. We had 530 practices every Tues and Thus and I only missed one. Since then I've been promoted.
it's totally normal in IB... some fucked up asshole is always there to please his/her boss... telling from personal experience!!
I am so glad my bank didn't use skype when I was in IB. Changing my email signature on my phone to the same as my desktop was all it took to appear in the office
Explain a little more - what exactly did she say, regarding productivity? I'd like to better understand (maybe you would, too).
She might not be making it clear what her expectations are.
Yes, it's a stressful time, maybe excessively busy. Truth is, you didn't know her work style previously, so perhaps she's always like this (to some extent). Maybe she's an insomniac (I had a guy who used to e-mail at all hours overnight), and likely when she has time to fit something in, she's just going to send it at her convenience, rather than hold an e-mail until a later time.
You might have to do the uncomfortable thing and ask for a brief call to be sure you know what her expectations are. I think this will be respected by her. She knows you're new, and maybe she just gives everyone her unfiltered self. Can you ask any colleagues in a very polite way if they can help you be sure you understand what she typically expects? Never be negative or gossip, refuse to engage in that, by the way. This will come back to bite you, at this stage you don't know who her confidantes are. You're merely asking for facts. What you're seeing may simply be her normal. I definitely know senior people who get up pre-dawn when they're fresh and before the phone/meetings/e-mails start. If she has children, Sunday night is a great time to get a little ahead before another crazy school week starts, so that's all that is.
The suggestion that "maybe she doesn't like her family" and other comments that suggest she's any different from a MALE MD - you guys need to wake up. She is allowed to simply be a demanding boss without all the adjectives associated with being female. Maybe your a-hole male MD's don't like their families, eh? Does that sound like something anyone would ever say here?
Don't jump ship without getting clear on her expectations. I think your pride is a bit hurt - maybe you haven't had many instances where people were critical of your work. That's ok - you are tough! You can handle it. Don't take it personally. It's all for your learning.
bravo
See below - already called to the mat for making a small piece of my comment bringing awareness to anything regarding "women."
How does that comment in any way point to her being different from a male MD? My male boss does the same thing and I’ve thought many times “maybe he hates his family.” Triggered much?
Comments like this genuinely baffle me.
Actually, YOU, Little One, are the one who is triggered if 1 (one) woman actually responds that they feel that a comment is off-base regarding a female professional.
You. Are the Triggered One. Let one woman, 1, make a simple comment, without desperate need to refute it and call me "triggered." It's about 25% of the overall response, yet you feel you must respond with Your Truth. I am very calm. I'm pointing out that male professionals need to rethink their evaluation of female professionals as having "female responses." I have never seen anyone even remotely comment that their family may be the cause of their professional behavior.
Don't be so baffled. And don't be so desperate to refute one very minor comment about rethinking one's attitudes towards female finance professionals. It is rampant in the industry.
What a strange response lol. You definitely seem triggered.
Are you really that blind/naive to what is going on in your coworkers personal live's that you haven't seen both the positive and detrimental effects big life changes can have on work attitudes/performance. Divorce. Death. Traumatic injuries. Hell the second year who's had a girlfriend the past 5 years and they split. In most cases.. turbulence is almost expected in these situations.
I think you just proved my point. What a bizarre comment.
Just for the record, "he must hate [or "not enjoy spending time with"] his family / wife / kids" is one of the most prevalent and consistent comments I have heard and made myself about hard working superiors, and all but one of them were male.
I'm sure you'll disagree with this, but you should become more concious of the fact that going that much overboard and reverting to personal attacks to finish your otherwise helpful and high quality comment discredits your entire persona and everything you said before (and terms like "triggered" and "bizarre" are certainly in the nicest decile of words that cross the minds of most people reading (or hearing) your little temper tantrum).
Yeah, sorry to pile on, but it is ridiculously commonplace to hear people joke about hard-driving male MDs hating their families. It's so commonplace it's almost de rigueur everywhere I've worked.
Based on prior comments you have made about your age (and therefore years in the field), it strikes me as odd that you haven't noticed by now. Ironic that you seem to have actually been shielded from this sort of ribbing rather than subjected to it more than others.
Could you be anymore narcissistic?
yeah, I'm the one that said it, so I'll explain what I meant. I meant it generally, not specific to the fact she's a woman, because quite frankly I don't know. what I do know is that people regardless of sex, gender, or whatever term's en vogue today find ways to distract themselves from shitty situations. maybe they hate being at home all the time, maybe they're in a bad marriage and bury themselves with work. maybe they have a little shit for a child and the other parent isn't helpful so they have to get work in at all hours while the little hellion is sleeping, I don't know.
and to anyone who read more into this, simple use of a female pronoun does not mean I think this is uniquely a female issue.
Low quality finish to an otherwise insightful comment. Unfortunate that you are reinforcing stigma's instead of staying on-topic and adding value to the community here.
This is a joke right? Men working too hard because they hate their families is basically a meme.
It's comments like these that make men afraid of working with women.
Hi, The whole world is currently going under a tough time due to this pandemic. Maybe your boss is so concerned about losing her business or getting low on her finances. Because of too much of negativity out there. It is common response of any human being who is locked up unwillingly! I think she will be just fine when lockdown lifts up!
I had a boss (he was a guy and also seemed to hate his family, missed the births of his kids) kind of like this. I think he got freaked out and stressed when he saw that other people weren't as freaked out and stressed as he was. I got a new job; the guy was toxic and easily the worst manager I've ever had.
Anyway...this may just be her management style, or she may just be freaking out due to COVID. Time will tell once things get back to normal.
There are bosses like this, and generally people like this. They are always online, always sprinting forward - sometimes necessary, sometimes unnecessary. Your best bet is to, relatively soon, have a conversation with her and set the expectations or limits - especially in a work from home environment. Happy to take monkey shit for this - but just because you 'work from home' and are suddenly more available than before DOES NOT MEAN they own all of your time. If you have deliverable - do them of course - but being 100% available, all the time, is a bit much.
Don't underestimate the pressure of the times. I'm very, very fortunate to be at a good firm, with good bosses and a business model that is largely resilient in times like these. The vast majority, especially in areas where activity is tied to growth/healthy economies (like loans) and you need to constantly be doing deals... that's tough. It creates urgency. You don't over produce, you get fired. You produce just enough, you might still get fired. You under produce, you will get fired.
This may be obvious, but do as much as you can to develop a rapport with your boss. It's very hard to do virtually, but start working on it. Moreover - try to not take the approach of 'they've gone crazy' versus trying to establish a baseline understanding with her. If that fails - then ys, sure, get the hell out of dodge.
Work on not taking things personally when you are at the office. It's hard, very hard, but do what you can to moderate your emotions, figure out the answer and a path forward, executing that path.
I understand all what you’re saying. If I was making f*ck you money I wouldn’t make this post and gladly take the azz whooping. The whole work from home shouldn’t mean that I’m 24/7 working all the time. I just think that I need to adjust to her anal management style, stick it out for a year and jump ship.
For all you monkeys with chill managers, be glad you have that and don’t take it for granted...
This is where we have the edge fellas. When stressed out, go to the hub and rub one out so you don't end up being a clown like this guys boss.
Big 4 here
Thankfully my boss is super chill and knows that I cover him heavily in front of the client, so I can sometimes get away with being offline early or for breaks as long as I give him a heads up. He also supports me anytime I push back on other consultants on our team for stereotypical "creating work/problems/reports when there are none" - he is more detailed oriented while I am more strategic thinking so we try to reduce pointless busy work for each other as often as possible.
Likewise he and I understand this WFH crap sucks (he has a 2 yr old and another on the way) so I return the favor any time he needs it. For someone 10+ years my senior I've been humbled by his leadership style and respect. Yeah, sometimes a junior consultant and I stay up late, but other times I can basically sign off at 2pm because we have an efficient system and still deliver.
It's amazing how many shitty bosses there still are out there when being a good boss is the best productivity hack you can do for your company.
When you treat people like you're supposed to, they'll run through walls for you.
I definitely took for granted my last boss. She was organized and had a lot of deals, but never anal about chit. WFH is bs and I can’t wait for the COVID to end.
lending? jeez isn't that supposed to be chill...
Busy AF fam...
not a bad thing in any case hahaha
PF / RE?
It'd be more shocking if someone didn't have a crazy boss.
You're welcome. Tell me if there are any other rookie moves you need me to explain to you: https://www.walmart.com/ip/Phantom-Keystroker-V2-Practical-Joke-Prank-D…
Yes but only at night, he's usually really slow getting on and going in the mornings.
Hit em with the touch and go. https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCLfrm5D5REX-4cfiffmLH4A/featured
Shouldn't be surprising, but the finance industry has a plentiful amount of managers with personality disorders.
With that said, if you're a portfolio manager in lending / credit, a bit of professional anxiety isn't unwarranted right now because sh*t is about to hit the fan in the next 2-3 quarters (especially if you have exposure to energy or consumer retail sectors).
I’m adjusting to her management style. She’s not micro, but she is anal about certain things. It’s hard to change since the last 3 years I had a chill boss that came in at 9 with a 1-2 hour lunch break and leave at 3 or 4 everyday. Everything was smooth sailing for the most part at that job. Hell I don’t even remember a time she worked a weekend and we had some serious deals too. Yeah lending is a shit show and will be like that for awhile. I am prepping my ass for it.
My manager is a bit like this, but instead they're been taking forever to respond to anything which is really annoying since I need their ok to get back to vendors, even on really simple things like confirming due dates with brokers/appraisers. It's the worst. What's really insane is that a couple months ago they had a talk with me and coworker on my team and they told us that they only got to where they were not because they were particularly good, but because they put in the time. I get that, but the part of them not being particularly good really shows.
I’m sure approvals takes less than 5 minutes. That is some straight up bull shit.
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