Keen for views on MBAs

Interested

I completed my MBA relatively recently and decided to go for an MBA when I was definitively in a Post-MBA PE role. People called me crazy, I frankly didn't care. I wanted the break had a logical stopping point in my career to take the two years and had an incredible experience. 

For me, it probably wasn't as impactful as it was for the teacher to wanted to pivot into IB and I think that MBAs are perfect for those who are changing careers. For those who are a little less certain or who are already in banking/consulting/PE/HF etc it makes less sense from a direct career standpoint. With that said, I do think the network is impactful, both direct classmates and just the branding in general. I did not come from a prestigious background, so I didn't have an Ivy league on the resume beforehand. Having the stamp of approval on my resume now from a top MBA program is helpful for a lot of things and I feel confident in my ability to call up so and so to get perspective/info on basically whatever I want. I think it'll continue to pay dividends over the course of my career. 

Also, I disagree with the above post about business friends or people you can't be that close to. I've made dozens of lifelong friends in my program and have a close circle of about 10 or so, who I trust just as much as I do my high school, college, and early career friends. It's a pretty intense bonding period over the course of two years and I'm extraordinary grateful for the people I met. I frankly feel like I enjoyed it much more than I did my undergrad days and found much more like minded people than I did in undergrad. Completely disagree about people being guarded and if they are, it's probably a personal problem rather than a fault of the MBA. Your experience is what you make of it, there are plenty of people I know who were not as social, had other life things going on, etc during their MBA and the most common regret I hear from folks is they say there were too career/school focused and didn't go on as many trips as they would have liked or gone to as many club outings. It's all extremely open and accessible for those who want to apply themselves socially, so if you need a social reset of sorts, it's a great place for that as well.

All in all, I'm still a supporter of the MBA, but I do think that it's not a one size fits all as much as it used to be. 

As an MBA myself here’s a keen take:

1. I did a Part-time MBA, and while some people may think it is less impressive, I would say that working while getting an MBA is actually more impressive since you must manage two full workloads. Also, you still get paid.

2. Many people downplay that you DO learn things during an MBA. Sure, you may have a finance background and understand economics and accounting and cashflows. But how much do you know about marketing—you do realize that sales is the department that drives profits for any business right (NOT finance)? Do you know how to pull those levers? What about entrepreneurship—are you versed in fundraising and driving the metrics for companies that are not yet profitable? What about implementing organizational strategy?

All of this knowledge will make you better at holistically evaluating a company, and will give you extreme confidence in any role you pursue in business. THIS is why an MBA is important. Not the handful of friends that can help you get a job down the road (though that is a nice benefit too…)

Hope this helps.

I'm not from the US and did my MBA at a school which sits close to the bottom of top 10. My view is that outside of the states the only career which values the MBA at the same level internationally is consulting. Investment Banking outside of the States and maybe the UK is way less structured and the MBA is not necessary to break in, and a lot of times it can even be a little detrimental when the people that will be recruiting you will not be buying your MBA story (some of them will think of you as a slacker who decided to take a 2 year vacation - most of them thought about it but did not go anyway, so they are a little jealous). 

The MBA is itself a fun experience, but with a ridiculously high price tag, specially if you will work abroad. In terms of the "prestige" associated with the degree, after 5-10 year it mostly wanes and your actual accomplishments become much more important (i graduated 6 years ago and very rarely this comes up, in any situation). Based on all the above and my experience graduating from a very good US school (not top 3, but equally pricey), I would go for business school only in one of the following situations:

1. You were admitted to a top 3 school

2.  You have a 50%+ scholarship other top 10 school. 75%+ for outside of top 10.

3. Money is no issue for you

4. Your goal is to break into MBB consulting

I have an MBA and it was incredibly beneficial to my career, but YMMV. I would generally agree with OP that it’s most beneficial to those who are looking to pivot careers. I also had a blast while in school and met a lot of new friends, many of whom went into similar roles as me and I bounce ideas off regularly.

I was in PWM and went through the Columbia Value Investing Program to move to the buy side, which changed my life/network and career trajectory entirely. Landed a role at a top LO that I never would have had a shot at otherwise and learned a ton and got exposure and mentorship from a lot of very successful HF/LO investors while in the program. Most MBAs don’t get a ton out of the classroom, but the VI program was a fuck ton of work all geared towards investing so you learn a lot as a result.

Obviously just one example but if you’re looking to do HF/AM and don’t have the classic IB/PE pre-MBA experience I really think a top MBA is the best entry point (and a lot of fun on top of that).

4 reasons MBA makes sense:

1. You are career switching. An MBA can open up a whole new world to a programmer or MD or teacher trying to pivot. Or more narrow, an accountant trying to move to consulting.
2. You are burned out and/or need to meet a social network at 30. A lot of people meet significant others through b school or lifelong friends. For those that studied and grinded and weren’t social in college, then took 100 hour a week jobs until 27/28, the MBA offers a great victory lap to reinvent.
3. prestige chasers. For some people, having a good MBA brand is the end game. It allows them to signal their worth and it’s something they have always strived for.
4. You want to get a diversified learning experience in business, guided by experts.

I think people over stress the “networking” component of b-school and I find it kinda Bs. You can be much more effective at networking by targeting industries and being more pointed with your networking. Networking for b school in my mind is people justifying partying for 2 years.

I think people sleep on the academics of b-school. If your goal is to learn, you actually can massively expand your horizons through classes or other students. I learned a great deal about portfolio management through b school which was completely foreign to me coming from IB/PE. Of course, the goodwill hunting quote of “you could have gotten then from late charges at a public library” apply, but it’s pretty hard learning on your own in truth.

The “is it worth it” question gets decently philosophical and I think the answer is unequivocally yes, no, and maybe depending on the person.

Professionally, I think people with MBA’s tend to have a bias where they like others that have also done their mba. People say they are going away, but they aren’t for that reason alone. Also, I think most people that don’t get an mba often get asked why they didn’t their entire career or in their personal life which can be annoying.

I think at the end of the day, you can get away with not doing an MBA and plenty of people do and it doesn’t matter, but I think the above are great reasons that are worth it. Now the price tag and opportunity cost of lost wages are large, but I think many people have parental support or large enough wages by the time they get their mba, that it doesn’t really matter. I did it part time because I found it hard to justify leaving the workforce and I’m glad I did it. I know many other people who did it fulltime and I think very few people I know regret doing it, so that says something about the value and pursuit. 

Been giving this some thought as well. My view is that the primary benefit of an MBA (career switching or not) is the network you gain. I also feel it's only worth it if you get into a pretty decent program. Otherwise, it seems it's best to stick in IB / your current role BUT make a concerted effort to network and go to events that could truly broaden your network. Considering joining as a junior board member and seeing what other reasonable options are out there to try to supplement the network you'd get from an MBA.  

I did a two-year MBA, was NOT a career switcher, and it still helped me in the following ways:

1) Re-branded myself.  I attended a shyt-tier undergrad.  The brand stamp of the MBA has helped tremendously - I currently work in a group full of HSW grads, ex-MBB vets, and ivy+ folks

2) It enabled me to recruit nationally.  I desperately wanted out of NYC and prior to the MBA had spent 2 years sending my resume across the country only to see it thrown in the trash time and again.  I always made it clear I'd cover my own relo, and it's not as If I was working for unknown companies at the time - they were all F100 firms.  One OCR and I was making 6 figures in a LCOL area after having my pick of destinations

3) It opened up management-level jobs.  Admittedly you can get this on merit / hard work alone, but it's a longer climb.  I fast-tracked into the executive ranks

4) It immediately doubled my salary, and I'm currently at 4.5x what I made pre-MBA.  There's no way I get there at this speed without having a well regarded MBA in my back pocket. It sort of gives you the benefit of the doubt when you throw your hat into the ring for certain tangentially related roles or higher-level positions within the same field.  

Some of the other benefits are a bit overblown but still tangible. I had fun and traveled a ton - but probably not worth the price tag for that.  I made some good friends - a couple of them close - but like all friends, they move on for the most part once they start having families.  But 3 net new close friends is better than 0.  Some people met their significant others in their program, so they'd probably tell you it was worth it at any price.  A sizeable chunk of my class was sponsored by their consulting firms, so it's a no-brainer in that case. 

The only applicants I generally raise an eyebrow at to this day are those buyside folks seeking it without a return guarantee at their current firms.  Those people are already where 99.8% of MBA grads WANT to end up (particularly in compensation) and take the plunge anyway.  

But overall, top MBAs are a solid investment depending on your circumstances - and that goes double for people looking to break into IB or consulting.  

For UK based careers.....

Not worth the money. I did one at a top 5 UK school.

Pointless career wise unless you are straight out of uni and want to do a start-up.

Opportunity cost is too high, stay in your career.

Pretty meh experience too, felt like a cash machine for the uni more than anything else, rinsing foreign students (many of whom were clueless and were accepted purely based on the fees they would pay rather than quality).

Pass.

Wow just want to say thanks to everyone for the really thoughtful and helpful responses! 

Tbh I would go just to party with rich kids and hookup with random chicks. I’m working in a very intense role right now and I could definitely use the 2 year vacation + network-building opp. Wouldn’t mind partying it up in the Hamptons or something. 

Lots of good info here, don’t forget the group vacations and Halloween/theme parties. 

Just finished a PT MBA at a top 5 PT program. Went into the program for a rebrand + wanting to go the MBB consulting route but ended up staying within my Supply Chain/Operations vertical at a smaller company.

Base comp went up significantly and I expect my 5-year post graduation comp to be 2-3x my pre-MBA comp. My guess is that I will have picked up probably 20-30% more money over the 5-year term, making my shorter-term ROI ~cost neutral to moderately beneficial. I expect my 10-year post MBA comp to be significantly greater than if I had not done the MBA due to a combination of better work experience, job opportunities directly related to my new branding, and compounding income growth (no surprise here).

The time commitment sucked (PT problems), and it was very clear who was in my PT program with a cushy job versus those in more of a sweatshop (such as myself). 

Depending on your "why", you absolutely need to consider the opportunity cost of going FT versus continuing to work. I would say most people don't need an MBA, but as someone above said in regard to checking the box.... you'll never have to explain why you don't have it.

I work at a REIT making $106K out of unergrad but want to go into REIB to collect that $300k associate salary. Will prolly apply in 2-3 years though. 

Graduate business degrees, even at top tier institutions, are for people that made mistakes. 

Two big challenges make me feel that I wouldn’t get the MBA today, even though I did get it less than 10 yrs ago and feel it was beneficial for me.

1) The network benefit isn’t remotely the same today as it was back then, because alternatives are so much better. More conferences, more meetups, more social media interest groups, more interaction with remote-office coworkers etc etc . . it just feels like modern-day networking really calls into question the access advantage of rubbing elbows with your MBA class.

2) The educational benefit was significant for me, but obviously these days (similar to my point above) the access to educational resources online . . not just the formal lessons but the ability to talk through things with anyone across the world . . also seems to really question the added value of the MBA.

I wouldn’t say it’s slam dunk case for skipping it, because ultimately it’s only 2 years (a bit less to be precise) so not a huge risk and who knows, maybe making the program your focus for that period of time is the key to leveling up. 

But overall feels like a really tough value prop these days. 

If it’s not M7, it’s probably horseshit

My parents will pay for it, I want to party and travel for two years, network, and I want the brand name. Just being honest. 

I was accepted to a strong program a few years ago and didn't attend. Ended up being a good move for me (though I also got very lucky with the opportunities I had).

The 2 biggest benefits of a full time program are the salary bump and the ability to pivot to something new.

If you can pivot to something else without the degree (and get on track to make 150k+) OR you don't want to pivot (and are on track to make 150k+), then IMO the entire value prop of the degree starts to collapse, especially if you're paying out of pocket or taking on debt.

I think you got some good advice already, so I won't talk about the career opportunities, the network or what you learn. I just want to add my perspective on 2 things:

1) I think many people in general just look at the benefits and costs in a quantifiable way, like pros and cons on a spreadsheet. However, unless you're one of the people who loves working the entire time (not many), you need to consider the MBA can be a great personal experience, like a sabbatical or retirement year when you're still young and can still party, do sports, travel, whatever you like. To me, it felt like undergrad while having money (I guess many on WSO already had this :) ). Even if it would cost more than $1m in opportunity costs (which it doesn't really), I wouldn't regret doing it. I have friends at my age (close to 40) that didn't do an MBA and make considerably more money than me. After a certain level (which is achievable in finance and a few other fields), there is no discernible difference in my quality of life vs them (they may be able to retire a few years earlier than me, but probably won't anyway, because most at least wait until kids head to college). However, there is a difference in the life experiences we're had until this age, and I'm happy I chose how I did. 

2) Too many exaggerate the MBA opportunity cost by calculating gross income lost + tuition and living costs (that's how you get numbers close to $1m). But you don't get paid gross, and you still have eat and live somewhere even if you don't do an MBA. So the better comparison number should be: typical savings for 18 months + tuition only + maybe add a bit more for going out/trips etc. So if you're saving about 100k-150k per year and the MBA tuition is about 80k per year, you'd have an opportunity cost of about $300k-400k. Still high, sure, but likely small in a 40 year career.     

MBA is a good idea if you wanna find a wifey and want a career break

Got my MBA part time from a top 30 school.

1) Learning- Not worth it. I would guess half my MBA classes were not worth it and were rehashing undergrad business. The other half were alright. I learned a few things but would say that on the learning front alone, the MBA was not worth it, especially at the price tag (~100k).

2) Confidence- Worth it. Going to a top 30 school (and the best school in the city) meant I was in classes with some of the old money in town and people from the top companies. Many of the local c-level execs are alums of the school. Going to this school and feeling like I could keep up with all my classmates was a big confidence boost. I had some very average classmates who ended up in MBB.. helped me realize I can hang with the best of them.

3) Signaling- Worth it. Companies like their people to have a strong pedigree. The MBA gives me legitimacy, especially since I got a few promotions shortly after and am young for my title. The MBA gives the company something to point to (in addition to performance). It also helps in external meetings to legitimize why I'm in the role I'm in.

When I was deciding whether I should get the MBA or not I was struggling to justify the cost. What if I could rise just as high without the MBA? Ultimately what pushed me over the edge was the realization that if the MBA accelerates a late career promo by just a year, it will pay for itself. Said another way, if the MBA helps me hit VP at 39 instead of 40, that promo alone is worth 100k or more... so I don't need the MBA to take me to places I couldn't otherwise go, I just need it to accelerate things by even just a year.

At the tail end of the MBA I left my prior company for a manager promo and a ~35% raise. A year later I got another promo and 30% raise (on top of the first). I should hit Director at the end of this year or next. Most of this is due to timing (luck) and performance, but I don't think I would have been approached for this role without the MBA, and might not have been as confident in interacting with our leadership. I also got the MBA cost down to the mid 60s through corporate education assistance (~15k), taking a few classes at a cheaper school and transferring them over (~11k), and tax credits (8-9k).

All in- I think it's worth it, even without an industry switch.

What do you guys think of MBAs like Quantic/Valar? Are these considered by IBs like GS and MS for promotions or is the accreditation not acknowledged?

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I'm still "pre-MBA" so don't have the the same experience / knowledge as the folks who posted above, but about a year ago I was strongly considering an MBA and opted to go a different route. My reasoning is below, if helpful:

• I did IB and a BB, then was working in UMM PE
• My PE firm did not have a track record of internal promotes, so the MBA would be necessary if I wanted to stay (but, I did not like my firm and did not want to stay, so there goes that need)
• Based on the life of my VPs, I knew I didn't want to be a VP at an UMM / MF fund
  • If I wanted to stay in PE, thought I could go downstream without the MBA
• From the folks at my firm who did get MBAs and returned, they said the following:
  • Needed a 'break' after grinding for so long (particularly, IB to PE pipeline)
  • Met friends / wife at MBA
  • Network --> knew most VPs at similar funds that we interacted with in the marketplace
  • Implied they didn't have a ton of fun in college / were kind of bookworms so the MBA was a second change at a college experience
    • Not trying to be mean but reading in between the lines
  • Scholarship / was paid for by other firm
  • Felt it was required for running their own fund at some point
  • None of them really mentioned the learning opportunity

For me, none of those really applied to my situation and I felt I was leaning to the MBA because I didn't like my PE firm and I wanted to make sure I was still 'on the right track'. But, my track wasn't really applicable to the above. I ended up moving out of PE and going into Corp Dev in a industry I would've tried to pivot to via the MBA, hence rendering the MBA (for the time) unnecessary. I also have a great group of friends from undergrad and an SO in my city, so didn't really see the value there.

Overall, have to take advice all with a grain of salt since people have different reasons for going.

For me, I expect to avoid the MBA unless I think the following changes:

• I feel its necessary to continue in my industry, especially with respect to changing jobs
  • I haven't ruled this one as a yes or no yet
• I get it paid for by the firm
  • Highly doubt my current firm will pay
• I want to switch industries
  • For now, that is a no.
• Not sure if part-time is worth it given I don't have an answer to bullet 1 yet

Hope this helps!

You retire 2 years later and instead retire for 2 years in your 20s.

Personally found EMBA to be a great route. You learn a lot if you do it right, networking is excellent (but takes a few years to see the results) and you don’t have to give up 2 years of comp.  
 

Ironically, used mine to pivot out of PE…

The network helps, it's always a brand you can carry, but not the necessary step it maybe once was. Pending your industry focus or preference, it could be critical for advancement. 

I passed the notion of spending valuable time for a name on my CV. At least at a job in finance, sometimes you don't learn anything but get good pay. With an MBA, you also pay them just so that you can write HBS or something to your CV and return to an investment bank to be an associate all over again. 

The real reason why PE firms require MBAs to move up the ranks, is to manage their inventory of talent. There's 10 associates to every 1 VP. That's massive.

There's such an insane glut of talent at the mid-level, that firms need a means to stop so many people moving up at the same time. Making people get an MBA to make VP gives firms less mouths to feed. It also increases the turnover - new associates come in, do their 2 years and leave for their MBAs. The firm always has fresh juniors and seasoned seniors. If you have an associate that you already don't want to make him VP, then how do you justify holding an old clog? Make him leave to get his MBA.

And if these people actually return, having learned smtg new/ valuable in b-school, that's just an extra W

In my b school, I met tons of people who are useful to know as a PE / HF investor. It's hard to quantify the value of the "network" through that lens (to say nothing of the value of such a network for personal / non career reasons) but that alone has thus far made the 2 year opp cost + $150 tuition (i didn't pay full boat but still) worthwhile. I also came out 5x as polished as when I went in. It's only interacting with 26 year olds now, even high achieving PE / HF / IB professionals, that I realize the latter point. 2-3 years of crows eyes and gray hairs and receding hairlines and mellowing out makes you way more credible. Never in a million years would I want my 26 year old self to speak to an LP whereas now I'm presented like a bright shiny object every time an LP stops by.

As for the requirement of an MBA in some US firms, it could be a combination of factors, including a standardized measure for candidates' business acumen, a filtering mechanism for a large applicant pool, and the prestige associated with top-tier MBA programs.

In terms of trading a car near Manhattan, you may want to explore local dealerships in the area or leverage online platforms that specialize in car trading. Considering factors like pricing, convenience, and reputation will help you find the best option for your specific needs . 

You raise some valid points, and it’s entirely possible an MBA doesn’t make sense for you. First year at HSW here, happy to share my experience and why doing an MBA has (at least so far) been a Top 3 decision in my life, easily:

• Brand name. After attending a Top 25 undergrad (good but hardly mindblowing) and working a few years at an “okay” bank, the brand value of my MBA has quite literally turned my world around. This has come in a few shapes & forms: (a) how people form their first impression of me (for better or worse, people do rely on heuristics and shortcuts to form a snap judgment of you; ivy league or similar greatly helps); (b) opportunities available to me (having my pick in terms of internships, etc. - it’s a very real phenomenon if you’re at the “right” school); and (c) extent to which people are willing to give me the benefit of the doubt (e.g. I didn’t quite nail my internship interview but was hired nonetheless at a great PE/HF because people trust me to be quick/smart/driven enough to be able to learn on the job). 
• Network. I’ve been really impressed by the caliber people in my class in terms of raw intellect, career trajectory, and magnitude of ambition. A good 70% are happy to go out of their way to help with anything and everything - an internship reference, a framework for assessing a job offer, generic life advice, or a couch to crash on for the weekend. More often than not, people offer their help proactively, before I’ve even asked. Also a good ~20% of interviewers I’ve had for summer internships (and a significant number of senior people in the field I’m interested in) went to the same school, which always helps. 
• ​​​​​​​Time to think, reflect, prioritize. Idk,  finding myself with some time on my hands at school has afforded me the rare chance to sit back and reflect on life as an adult human being, which is an opportunity most people never get. Chances are, last time you had the mental space and time to think - REALLY think - about who you are, what you want out of life (+why) and  how to get there was in college. Repeating this exercise as a 27-y/o is an exhilarating exercise and my life choices are that much more deliberate and less autopilot-y for it. Also everyone else is introspecting much of the time too (yes, when they’re not partying - that trope is also true), and it makes for absolutely fascinating conversations. That alone, I think, is worth the $200k, assuming you had and/or will have the job to be able to afford it. Life in general is so much more than the amount of dollars you die with in your bank account, and I personally think there’s a lot of intangible richness (of experience, of thought, of life itself) to be found in an MBA if you end up in the right program. 

Anyhow, hopefully this sheds some light on how an MBA can be worthwhile. Good luck with your big decision!

Some of us really need the MBA to pivot careers. I found one that I love (Illinois Gies iMBA) that only costs $24k for the entire program. I'm going to work as hard as I possibly can, and that's just the best I can do. The MBA is a great choice for me. And if daddy or mommy is paying for your $250k top 10 MBA, you certainly have nothing to complain about :). Some of us don't have parents and need to be vigilant. Everyone is doing their best, and many of us need to be scrappy to swich careers due to the economy, pandemic, and 4th industrial revolution. If I can work my butt off and prove to Goldman or Citi or BOA or whomever to take a shot on me, awesome, and if now maybe I'll go into a different industry or back into tech. 

My main point is that finance is not the be all end all. There are so many wonderful careers out there. I'd love to get a VP title from a decent bank and then transfer industries again. Who knows - that's the adventure. 

MBAs are a career reset button. 

I agree with your reasoning. In my opinion, an MBA is a major financial decision. People say that the returns will always outweigh the costs which isn't always true. It is a case-by-case decision. If you're happy with your current career trajectory, there isn't a huge value. The only thing is to consider if you need to upskill yourself in the future in which case you may need to study but not necessarily do an MBA.

For those who answer here/pursued an MBA recently, would you say that it still make sense for foreigners looking to stay (very) long-term in the US despite how difficult it is to get visas?

I am speaking about someone with MSc in Finance, a family, experience in two major EU countries, in his late 20s and with a job at one of the top REPE shop. Looking to potentially lateral into IBD or MBB consulting ideally on the West Coast.

Thanks for your input.

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