Leaving PE for Biomedical Engineering (Neuroengineering) PhD
What the title says. Studied biomedical engineering and math in college, went to an MBB consulting firm, now doing my PE stint.
This has been a great start to my career as I’ve obtained business acumen that’ll be helpful for the rest of my life. And I’m thankful to work in highly coveted position that provides a financially comfortable lifestyle.
But I’m not contributing to society meaningfully, nor am I reaching my full potential.
So next fall, I’m pursuing a PhD in biomedical engineering with a focus on neuroengineering and looking to advance research in helping people regain lost cognitive abilities/functions. If everyone in the world had equal basic abilities and needs met (including adequate food security and education as well) and thus we had more human capital in the world, I’m sure that we would have advanced much further at this point.
Will eventually start my own company and pursue a career path at the intersection of scientific advancement and entrepreneurship.
PM me if you’ve contemplated a similar path! I encourage you do something that’ll push humanity forward.
Just realize that you’ll be leaving behind the possibility to retire early and start a family. Also, you’ll probably grind just as hard but I’m assuming that the program will be less laborious given your background.
If you’ve already considered these points, good for you. I have a profound interest in making money and admittedly couldn’t something like that. Best of luck.
What a narrow-minded view of life.
Appreciate the honesty. I’ve thought about this quite a bit and I have the rest of my life to work. I also don’t find retiring early attractive.
Many of the greatest minds in history never retired or at least continued to contribute until end of life. I hold this same philosophy. Think Hawking, Oppenheimer, Einstein, Michio Kaku, etc.
Regarding starting a family, my fiancé is 100% fine with this and actually encouraged me to do this. PhD is fully funded so my bases are covered. And my value proposition will increase substantially and I have the top STEM network from my educational background so not worried about job opportunities.
Thank you!
Best of luck in your endeavors! Life is too short to not pursue and take calculated risks. Assuming you've saved enough in the piggy bank or your partner can pick up the financial load during your schooling (maintaining lifestyle you've agreed upon), I don't see why this isn't possible. Number one risk is probably flaming out before obtaining your PhD. An alternative could be doing PE at a healthcare focused shop that specializes in what you're interested in.
Appreciate you sharing your thoughts! Fortunately, my girlfriend has agreed to a modest lifestyle, and I’ve intentionally been careful not to spoil her in anticipation of living on. PhD stipend/savings/research income, so that it’s a seamless transition.
Also, surprising to some, doing intense STEM research energizes me. I feel like my cognitive skills (as opposed to IQ) has declined since working in finance. It’s true that some models can be more detailed than others, but the intellectual rigor of finance is much less than a highly analytical field like neuroengineering. I’m excited to re-engage in a highly rigorous STEM environment. Most importantly, it’s my passion.
Finally, I’m already focused in the healthcare PE space! The problem is that PE is about value extraction, whereas engineering and entrepreneurship is the core of value creation.
Give more than you take from society and you’ll live a life worthwhile.
Wow I feel so esteemed to be on the same forum as one of the great minds of our generation 🤓
😂Got me. Keep the bananas coming! And the monkey shit!
Hawking... Nice.
Ah, swinging from the financial jungle vines to the intricate neural networks of neuroengineering, quite the leap! Based on the most helpful WSO content, it's not unheard of for professionals to pivot from high finance to a completely different field, such as biomedical engineering. Your background in biomedical engineering and math, combined with the business acumen from MBB consulting and PE, could indeed serve as a strong foundation for a PhD in neuroengineering.
Here are some steps you might consider based on previous WSO threads:
Research and Preparation: Before you dive into the PhD pool, make sure you're up to date with the latest research in neuroengineering. This could involve academic journals, conferences, and networking with professionals in the field.
Academic Transition: You may need to refresh or enhance certain academic skills, especially if it's been a while since you were in a heavily technical or research-oriented environment.
Financial Planning: Transitioning from a well-compensated PE role to a PhD program will likely involve financial adjustments. Plan accordingly for the change in income during your studies.
Networking: Reach out to those who have made similar transitions or are currently in the field of neuroengineering. They can provide valuable insights and may help you navigate the PhD landscape.
Long-term Vision: Keep your end goal in sight. Starting your own company at the intersection of scientific advancement and entrepreneurship will require a blend of your technical expertise and business skills.
Contribution to Society: Remember, your desire to contribute meaningfully to society and push humanity forward can be a powerful motivator. Keep that at the forefront of your decision-making.
If you're looking for more specific advice or want to discuss your plans further, the WSO forums are a great place to connect with others who may have contemplated a similar path. Good luck on your journey to advance human cognitive abilities and functions!
Sources: Life Plan (for Everyone) to Ponder, Do What YOU Want on Wall Street, https://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forum/job-search/help-me-formulate-a-career-plan?customgpt=1, Life Plan (for Everyone) to Ponder, What is your long term career plan? / What do you do after the 2-2-2?
I still wonder why some course titles are this obsessed with slapping the word "engineering" onto them
Yeah man all about just “slapping” on the word engineering, nothing innovative about it.
I’m sure that wasting as much time as you do by getting Neanderthal status on WSO is such an impressive feat.😂
As somebody who spend thousands of hours in a biomedical research lab in college, was planning on going to medical school, and aced my MCAT, I think this is a mistake.
I conducted research in neurosurgery aimed at helping patients with stroke and brain tumors. That sounds great and all, but the reality of what that entails is totally different. With the NIH funding environment the way it is, a big part of getting your grants approved comes down to luck and politics. There's a very real chance that months of work will go down the drain, just because the reviewer of your grant doesn't have the best impression of your PI. Are you okay with that? There's also a huge element of playing the game (i.e., spitting out trash publications to pad your CV). There's a saying in medicine "assume residency directors can count, but not necessarily read." I have never been to a single academic conference that wasn't self serving. After 4 years of such research, I can confidently say I helped nobody. Chances are, your PhD will be the same.
So you want to meaningfully contribute to society? There are a million ways you can do that. How do you treat your friends? Do you have a significant other? How do you treat him / her? Your parents? Do you look after them? Do you volunteer for the causes that matter to you?
Oh and suppose you launch your amazing breakthrough company... who's gonna fund it?
I don't mean to discourage you, but your thoughts seem half baked
What's PI?
Principal investigator (i.e., the head of your lab). My point here being that the funding environment is so abysmal that whether or not you get your grant funded is largely affected by luck, politics (who you know / who you work under), whether or not your research involves hip research areas, and the mood of the reviewers on that particular day.
And I say this as somebody who did excellent on this front. I came to learn tricks: e.g., teaming up with friends in other labs, so we'd slap each other's names on each other's publications. Clinical research (rather than basic science) is a great way to pad your resume. Even if your research is an absolute failure, there is language you can use to downplay results. Having said all of this, if I didn't go to the prestigious college I went to, I don't think I would have stood a chance. That tells you all you need to know about your future colleagues.
The main takeaway here is just you have to play the game. If you're fine with playing the game, then go right ahead. But I just think you'll be disappointed if your primary motivator is making a more meaningful difference in society
The viewpoint of a naysayer is always helpful! I understand that, like anything else in life, there is inherent risk in this decision, and the opportunity cost is substantial.
But I’m fine with that. And I’m a firm believer in saying “fuck the game” and just going for it. So chances are I’ll experience challenge and hardship. But I only have one life to live and I’d rather fail than never try.
I also greatly appreciate your comment regarding treating people kindly. Unfortunately, people often treat one another poorly because societal structures (especially contemporary capitalism, although we are slowly improving) incentivize this type of behavior. Similar to my comment above, I choose to defy to the inhumane norms and strive to be the kindest person I know.
Most importantly, my goal is not just about respecting one another or merely contributing to society. I’m trying to advance humanity. I want to found companies akin to neurolink, FAIL, FAIL, FAIL, and then finally succeed!
At least try. Those of you who are contemplating leaving finance to push science and humanity forward - join me! Give the naysayer MDs a nice gift, card, and thank you - and go for it!
Let A Naysayer Know!!!
“After 4 years of such research, I can confidently say I’ve helped nobody.” I’m crying bro 😭
Congratulations!
However I disagree that you are not contributing to society meaningfully as a consultant/PE. I think these firms are incredibly important for behind the scenes work on so many things we take for granted in our lives. Regardless, all at matters is YOU aren’t finding meaning in it-biomedical engineering is an incredible field and I have no doubt u have a good chance at literally changing the world. Best of luck m8!
Good luck on your path!
Good for you if you truly are the type of person who wants to help total strangers.
But I don’t think the human race will ever evolve into a society where there is basic universal care, adequate food security for all and equally access to education.
Just take a quick peek at a history book, there has always been a ruling class. And even after a revolution, eventually things move towards a society of haves and have-nots. Traits like greed and violence and evil can never be eradicated from the human species.
So while I believe your pursuit is noble and you could really help people in accidents, tackling the other social issues you mentioned would be like Sisyphus pushing his boulder up a hill for eternity.
Just never gonna happen and is an exercise in futility.
Indeed, greed and “evil” have been innate in human beings throughout history. But you’re missing a several key points, all of which we should try to address in this life.
Throughout history we have made remarkable strides in advancing humanity. For example, slavery was once universally accepted. But it is now outlawed in the vast majority of the world. Also, many countries have implemented national healthcare systems. Murder has been outlawed in most countries for thousands of years. Although it does happen, it is seen as unacceptable. And food security’s very name implies that there is now concern about an adequate food source. Democracy is an incredible stride that humanity has made as well. The very notion of equality. And the creation of international human rights among nations.
Collectively, this all demonstrates profound advancements. Not even to mention scientific advancement, which has complemented human development.
The question is: how do eliminate “greed” and “injustice?” Well, where does this come from? Much of it comes from, as you are inadvertently implying, the human condition: our basic needs, such as food, water, sleep, sex, shelter, and a sense of belonging (we are social creatures). The problem is: resources are finite.
But what if, through science and technology, we could make these resources abundant? Defy the basic laws of current (soon to be outdated) economics of finite supply.
With scientific advancement and AI, we’ll enter the age of abundance. Food and water for all. For the people who can’t get laid or don’t have many friends, AI robot girlfriends will become available. With the rapid output of AI efficiencies, economic stimulus will be unprecedented. We will be able to afford, from a time and money perspective, to eradicate homelessness. Cure diseases.
You can call this idealistic, but the naysayers of today are the same ones tomorrow who cherish the new we have today.
In essence, the STEM advancements we make will fundamentally alter the human condition, based on needs for finite resources.
We then evolve into something even better…
Yes, human society has made great strides in the areas of medicine and technology in general, but I disagree with your points that humans have great strides in the moral arena.
You mention the fact slavery has been abolished almost everywhere. So you admit it’s still an issue and prevalent in other areas of the world. Even in America, those former slaves didn’t have equal rights until 50 years ago, and still today there are laws in place like affirmative action to correct systematic injustices. It’s not like slavery is totally eradicated or anything. Racism is alive and well as you can see with the rise of Trump.
Yes, many countries have implemented national healthcare systems. I have family on those countries and they complain that the public hospitals suck and they just pay money to fast track themselves to the private options. And even in the past there were doctors and such helping the masses, it’s not like only the rich got medical attention until recently.
You then mention murder being outlawed. Dude, it was outlawed in the Bible that’s not a new idea.
Sure there is concern over food security, but nothing is really done about it. There are so many hungry people in America right? Yet I see so much food wasted or thrown out by restaurants every day. Heck, even myself toss food constantly that I bought by mistake or don’t want anymore or let go rotten. We put people on the moon, you think we couldn’t figure out a way to feed people if we really cared. Many people are like me, I really don’t care the homeless dude down the street is hungry, that’s his problem, he’s not family.
You then mention democracy as a huge stride. Dude, they invested that crap in Ancient Greece, it’s not a new concept. And then you mention international rights organizations lol. There is literally genocide happening today, 50 odd years since the Germans tried to eradicate an entire people. There can be a hundred international rights organizations, but who cares if atrocities keep happening. It’s all lip service.
I agree with your point about scientific and tech advancement, that’s been cool.
You then posit that greed and injustice basically come from the fact that humans have basic needs, yet resources are finite. I disagree wholeheartedly. Maybe many years in the future, resources become so finite that there are world wars, but today we have more than enough resources.
I just mentioned all the food waste we have. We have housing crisis, yet massive mansions sit un-bought. Land seems scarce in nyc so you start to think land is rare, but take a drive to middle America and there is so much free space.
So while tech and AI advancement is cool, it is not needed to solve any resource issues because there are none. There is plenty of food and water and housing for all, if that’s what people really wanted. You actually believe there is not enough food to feed people? My friends eat 1k a person omakase while the dude outside starves on the sidewalk.
The issue isn’t resource scarcity, it’s that people simply tend to care about themselves and their families. Humans are able to help on a personal level to some extent, but to act like I should care about a homeless dude in Africa is just silly.
Reading your ideas reminds me of a line in the matrix. Basically, the computer told bro that they tried to create a perfect world for the minds of the humans where everyone was happy and there was no pain, but the humans rejected it. So that’s why they based the matrix on the real world.
Humans are greedy and jealous and mean. They are also generous and brave and kind. But you will always have the man who covets another’s wife and a woman who hates that another woman gets attention.
You cannot eradicate bad thoughts and feelings. Let’s say you solve world hunger. Then what? You think all the sated people will just be nice and stop fighting and cheating and being mean?
Look how many years it’s been since the Bible was written. The Ten Commandments were written thousands of years ago and there has been amazing leaps in tech and medicine and philosophy since then.
Yet, we still kill, disrespect our parents, abuse our kids, steal, commit adultery and bear false witness.
So while I think you can help society by making healthcare more readily available with your PhD, I think it’s naive and laughable to think you will be able to somehow change the human condition.
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