Q&A: LDN Sr Associate
Don't want to provide much context (privacy), but feel free to share your questions on London & Continental Europe, re.:
- IB / PE / Special sits & distress landscape
- Recruiting
- fashion advices (open to US folks too)
- life in general
Interested in higher return credit seats (think holdco, convertibles, sponsorless lending, etc). Somewhat aware of the players in the large cap space - what’s your view on recruiting for these roles (in terms of background)? Will be in a “markets” based levfin team so the extent of me understanding capital structure and picking up modelling skills may be limited here. What do you think recruiting would look like if one to come from a large cap direct lending team?
Any other insights on interviews, prep materials, processes, etc would be appreciated.
Definitely doable from a reputable large cap direct lending team, just connect with the right HHs asap
Re. Interviews, cannot comment for direct lending, but for SS lending /Distressed debt, you have to be really spot on on your deals. Really think through them, think through the valuations, rationale, etc. learn concepts like FCF yields / etc. and how to apply them to your deals. Additionally, you need to be spot on commercially and know “where to look” in the docs given the high risk involved. Commercially, if you learn to apply a SWOT analysis thoughtfully you’ll be fine. Legally, it’s a matter of doing your own homework on bond docs / using reorg to understand deals.
Senior associate comps range? Noticed there’s a wide range of difference titles depending on firms - some firms just do 2-2.5 years associate to VPs while others stick with the traditional 2 year assoc + 2 year senior assoc then VP program. Does it mean it’s slower comp progress too if firms have senior assoc levels or the ones with title inflations don’t inflate salary so it comes down to years of experience?
Don’t have enough datapoint and it’s really volatile. For example, Apollo has a long associate program but once you hit principal, you make more than other “more senior” roles at other shops, so it’s really dependent shop by shop. Based on my experience, every year as associate you have a salary bump, or you have 2 years as associate with same comp + 2 years Sr Ass with comp increase. It really depends
Do you have any view / context on Davidson Kempner in Europe in general and regarding their special sits PE team? And how it compares to umm/MF PE?
Great place to be, one of the strongest names out there imo
In PE too? I was aware they were strong in credit / distressed wasn’t aware they played in PE. Do you have any additional info on the team etc?
Currently in a investing role at FTSE 100 LifeCo with a private and public credit mandate. I have previously interned in a hedge fund which did distressed debt and special sits. In the future, I want to be in a role which invests across the cap structure.
I see most people in these seats with a LevFin background. Is this switch possible for me? Do you have any tips/advice on what I could improve/learn?
I do bespoke cashflow modelling in my current role, across RE/Infra/Structured credit but in the IG space.
Def doable, but you might need an intermediary step. Why not moving to a CLO / pull to par shop and move from there? Even better if you can go to PE but may be difficult. What’s your level of seniority?
Thanks for the reply!
This is my first job out after Masters. I got hired as a 2nd year analyst on par with the other analysts (my manager thought I was up for it). I have been told that I am doing great.
It is a sector generalist role, where I get to write large checks but I don't want to be stuck with an IG label. The plan is to stay for 1/2 years and move.
I keep wondering about the next step. If I need to go to SS and do a banking stint to break into. I want to go into opportunistic credit/structured equity type roles. I think I prefer PC over PE, but wouldn't mind PE too.
Thanks for taking the time, a few qs:
1) recruitment process for distressed/special sits? Esp interested in MF and UMM funds. I know for US the incoming analysts only get a few weeks before HH starts calling, what's it like for London?
2) wondering if OP does anything relating infra/energy? What are the top funds for real assets (Infra/energy/RE) in London?
3) currently incoming at top BB on acquisition financing, what are the chances for MF/UMM special sits gig? saw some posts saying will have to move to Levfin before getting considered
4) any books/material recommendation for special sits and distressed?
Lots of thanks
Unfortunately cannot add real value on infra / real estate because I don’t know enough to be value added.
On the other questions, will tackle them at once. Yes, you should try to move internally, ideally in an M&A or sector coverage type of role, or you can lateral to a top boutique into their Rx team. The fact that in europe the recruiting is more tailored / ad-hoc plays in your favor, it’s not completely unseen people moving to the buyside, especially in distress / Special Sits or even LBO PE at Ass2 level. Time plays in your favor to move away from acquisition financing.
On preparation, I am not a huge fan of “technical” books, and I did not read them myself. My suggestion is to read Reorg daily, and read about some old Rx where there was good press coverage and cleansing materials were provided to the public (Codere, Stainhoff, Pizza Express, Lowen Play, Selecta, DOF ASA, Orpea, etc.). Only book I suggest to read on the topic, it’s the Cesar Palace Coup.
The interview process is pretty similar fund but fund, you tend to meet a few people for fit / technical interviews, with technical interviews more focused on walking through deals or investment ideas, then there is a case study, which now is getting ever more “take home”, discussion of the case study and usually some more interviews. I cannot stress enough how important it is to have a solid investment idea and be solid in walking someone through the deals
As a Sr ASS, how much time do you spend managing your ANALs and how competent are they post covid
Bro ANALs sounds pretty weird
Anyway, I do not think there is an issue pre vs. Post covid but will share some thoughts that might be controversial:
Oh unfortunate the ANALs don't get proper training.
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From your view and experience what places would you say provide the best mix of junior learning experience, deal exposure and comp progression? - this is obviously cherry picking the best aspects of the job but am interested to hear your views on the landscape of this in Europe
I am a strong believer in lean teams, as a jr you get killed but you learn a lot and you have a lot of exposure to (supposedly) smart people. There are shops that tend to staff very large deal teams, and consequently have large associate classes, which means (i) highly political environment and (ii) less learning opps. Same concept can apply to banking
What do you think is the optimal number on a deal team?
From your view and experience what places would you say provide the best mix of junior learning experience, deal exposure and comp progression? - this is obviously cherry picking the best aspects of the job but am interested to hear your views on the landscape of this in Europe
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If it’s Evercore I’d say healthcare, if PWP/Laz prob Industrials, but anyway you should pick the sector you prefer
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How are EBs that are stronger in the US but weaker in Europe (e.g., PJT, CVP, Moelis) perceived by HHs for MF/UMM Associate recruiting in London?
For Credit / Distress / SS most of the ppl are from EB. For PE, really depends.. in general European funds prefer BB candidates, American funds do not really care
In terms of PE exists from BB, is it true that JPM in London has gained a reputation to churn out weaker PE prospects in on-cycle recruiting in relation to its BB counterparts, e.g. the likes of MS, BoA or Barclays? Thoughts?
Hi, thanks a lot for that, this is really helpful! What are your views on recruiting from CS (LevFin / M&A / Sponsors) for London MFs? How bad did it get given the current context? Is it still doable with a "strong" profile? (non-diversity, relevant internships and 2 continental European languages)
Probably doable, but if you’re starting there FT, I would be more concerned in keeping my job atm
Thanks for your reply, helpful. Indeed, I have been trying to find something else at top-5 BB but market is completely dead right now..
Appreciate you taking the time.
As an incoming summer analyst at BB IB, interested to hear your suggestions on how to find more about buyside careers and opportunities i.e. how to learn about all the different teams in buyside firms, which strategies are strongest at which firms, what background you need for certain teams, etc.
Reach out to KEA, they run some of the An programs. In general, you should speak to people on the buyside as much as you can, and ideally with a couple of years of experience (ie, not freshly hired associates who might shit on a place just cause they didn’t get an offer there - this is more common than someone would expect)
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