Selfish Ask for Help in Situation

Advice from someone around your age who has faced extreme hardship throughout their life and needed to find ways to keep going before finding their way in life.

Have you tried volunteering? Maybe consider exploring opportunities where you can make a tangible difference in people's lives. Whenever I've felt lost and burnt out, helping others has reminded me of how fortunate I am and has helped me keep moving forward. Coming from a background of extreme poverty, the outcomes might vary in your situation.

Regarding the points above, I'm unsure about recommending a deep dive into religion, but focusing on spiritual growth could be beneficial. Slightly off-topic, I don't particularly like organized religion and find most aspects unappealing, but I do believe in a higher being, and my faith has supported me through tough times. Try to find ways to nurture your spirituality and cultivate that aspect of your life.

I strongly disagree with the notion that gaining spirituality requires following a religion. As you can see above, people will simply begin suggesting that you follow religion X, and then it leads to questioning why not religion Y or religion Z. One common thread among all religions is spiritual growth, which can still be achieved without becoming part of an organized religion.

I would think about your end goals of working in the industry. If you are moving towards them, then take a long vacation and continue. If you are not, now is the time to pivot. You are young and have enough experience to have many options.

Ignore title. I was like you.

The difference is instead of faking it until you make it, I just lost the hold of the grip and let bad performance sink in. As a result, my firm was letting me go, and I’m struggle to find a job right now.

The consequence of not caring is very, very bad. This is a high demanding job. Not only I didn’t finish my two years as an asso (however non traditional candidate; was in other industry for a while) now I have seek alternatives but couldn’t find what I was wishing for. Some things you don’t feel important until you lose it. But problem with PE - once you lose it - it’s very hard to have it back.

My suggestion would be remember what excited you the most about the job, and starts to care more about that. Is it money? Great. Spend big $ and remind yourself the reason you can have such lifestyle is because of PE. Is it intellectual curiosity? Great. Remember your banking days where you are just mindless moving logos around.

Find what excited you about the job and what the job brings you is very important. You are there for a reason. You are not there just because you are good at the job; you are there because you cared enough about one thing and you pushed through the hardest days. Remember what that one thing was. And stick with it.

Hey, so I'm going to give the overlooked answer here: two things in life matter.

The first is relationships with other people. I suspect your girlfriend of six years leaving you hurt. You can't let that keep you down. You should focus on getting and retaining friends, working on your relationship with your family, and then consider going back out to find someone else.

The second item is your impact on the world. It's a surprising secret that one of the things that makes you feel best about yourself is the times in which you have treated others well, especially people who had no reason to expect your help. Do something great- you have the capacity to be someone who acts in a manner that contradicts all of the cynics out there in the world.

Forget all this other nonsense people are offering you. If you have good relationships and treat others well, you'll be happy (regardless of if you keep your job or not).

Hey Man - You're definitely more successful than I am, but just wanted to say you're not alone

I left consulting at the EM level and took a leadership position at a PE Portco - On the outside everything is pretty great - TC is ~$325k, my equity is worth 7 figures, I've been promoted and am the youngest member of the executive team. My work is manageable (~50 hours per week), so I've been able to get in unreal shape. I have amazing friends and a great girlfriend, so it's not like I don't have a great group of people around me

This is not too brag, but to say I am going through the exact same thing - I just don't seem to give a fuck like I did a few years ago. Since a Portco isn't as demanding as PE, it hasn't really impacted my performance and I'm in very good standing with the C-Suite and board, but I find myself just not really caring even though there is clearly a worthwhile carrot for me. I can't seem to find a way to get out of this rut really

I don't know if I'm burnt out, or maybe now that I'm ~10 years into a career I have less tolerance for the bullshit, but just like you I feel completely empty.

Here's to hoping we both figure it out....Best of luck brotha

thebrofessor - you've been a wise-spoken contributor to WSO over the years.  Would you mind reading and giving your input?

For the OP -

Feel free to PM.  What you're going through is not a great outlook to have.  I understand you said you are not asking for help, but perhaps a therapist within your network would be able to help?  They're generally equipped with a means and roadmap for you to perhaps look at things more differently from perhaps us here on WSO.  

I work with enough seniors at my company (including C-suite) to know the eyes and the looks of the burnout you speak of.  However, I also think that small steps - keeping house clean/orderly, eating cleanly, looking sharp/best, and positive affirmations about yourself will boost a positive attitude over time. 

OP here. First, I’m overwhelmed by both thoughtfulness and number of responses. I hope these posts don’t get taken down for mention of religion, all of the content here is invaluable to me. 
 

I will respond to each of you and PM where relevant. I don’t really have an avenue to talk about stuff like this outside of here (my friends are all non-finance, nobody at work takes me seriously when I say I’m at an edge, and my ex hated shop talk) - so this is a first for me, and I’m so unbelievably grateful. Thank you all. It’s so nice to be heard. 
 

offering again, if anyone wants advice on PE etc feel free to post on the thread under this comment specifically, happy to respond and give back. 

Not as good as other suggestions above- really really great stuff above- but reading stoic philosophy has helped me. That and reading the story of Sisyphus and the positive interpretations of it.

all the best to you OP!!! You’ve made it this far and gone thru hard challenges before, I’m sure you’ll figure this out and get thru this stronger than before!

“Mastery itself was the prize of the venture” -Winston Churchill

it seems like you're going through an identity crisis because you're living your life by milestones not values. anytime someone comes to me with this existential malaise, it's the same prescription (not because I'm lazy, but because if you do it, it WORKS). I believe unless you have a health condition that's being unaddressed, reflecting on your values and focusing on things that are intrinsically motivating to you, you'll find the energy to change. said another way - if there's a particular bike route that you love, it doesn't matter if you've gotten 4 hours of sleep, you still love the ride. that's what we're looking for here, a ride you look forward to getting on

1. review your wheel (point #4 here: https://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forum/off-topic/then-and-now-thebrofess…). you seem to be someone who's thriving financially, career wise, health wise, maybe socially, but maybe not spiritually
2. reflect on your values. plenty of ways to do this, my preferred method is with a cigar, some instrumental music, and a 4 finger negroni on my back porch. just ask yourself "what's important to me?" and then pull on that thread: why is this important to me? what about this is important to me? will this always be important to me? another method is to imagine yourself on your deathbed doing an accounting of your life, imagining what you will have cared about and what will seem so unimportant. this is now the blueprint for your life. I can pretty much guarantee your 90 year old self won't give a fuck if you made Director if it means you never took vacations or gave romantic relationships another chance? this is what people mean when they say "eulogy virtues" instead of "resume virtues" because no 90 year old laments going to Kellogg instead of Wharton, they lament travelling for work too much and missing soccer games, being too busy to see their mother before she died, not being present during family dinners because of yet another deal to review, being an absentee husband, etc.
3. make a plan. if you did #2 well, you will likely have a laundry list of things you want to accomplish. a combination could look like this: start a family and be a faithful husband, give back, learn something new (language, instrument, subject, craft, art), travel, etc. but that/s an impossibly large amount of things to do in a short timeframe, so I like to break things down into short, medium and longer term settings and then focus on small behaviors I can do TODAY to get me there. here's how I do it
   1. 1 year - I begin by writing out what I think my life will look like if I change nothing, what am I on track for? how does this fit into my priorities? is this a good place? if yes, then don't stress about changing so much, maybe just focus on sharpening the saw. if my current path is not where I'd want to be, what're some feasible things I can change? what behaviors can I do today in order to achieve these goals? for example, if I want to explore my faith, I can easily add 1 thing to my daily reading regimen related to this instead of another WSJ article. if I wanted to learn something new, I can identify 30 minutes a day where I'm wasting time on a tv show, following sports, instagram, or somewhere in work and work on that new thing. if I wanted to meet somebody and start a family, first I have to meet somebody, so I'd begin increasing my probabilities of serendipity - spending my free time in places where I may run into a good match, which is probably not at a bar at 10p on a Tuesday, but maybe a combination of a hipster wine bar, church, yoga classes, gym, volunteer events, and dating apps. TLDR: break out your most important objectives for the year ahead into daily repeatable actions, and then work on that
   2. 5 & 10y plans - this is more of a shock to the system because it forces you to realize what ages you'll be at those times and where you want to be in life. when you're 25, it can be a little scary to imagine 35yo and think: man, if I just keep fucking around going out all the time and chasing hedonism, I'm going to be a pretty sad 35yo, just like it can be a little scary to imagine when you're 30 and childless: do I want to be an older dad? how might that affect other things in life? do I still enjoy my career? do I still enjoy my marriage? these longer term thought experiments are also good because they force you to realize what's actually a priority and what's not. for example, I've always wanted to learn piano, but candidly I can begin that when I'm in my 60s and in the near term, I'd rather improve at surfing, jiu jitsu, and foreign languages. if I wanted to get an advanced degree, I really have to think if now is the best time for that or if I'd be better off waiting until I'm closer to retirement to do that (in my case it's not necessary for career success).
4. review & reflect - this is an ongoing process, you will course correct many times along the way, the central idea is the same: reflect on what's important to you, write it down, create habits that move you closer to your goal, and repeat. you'll discover a lot about yourself in the process, maybe something you thought was important just isn't, or maybe you discover that it's not lack of energy, it's lack of time and you need to be aggressive with cutting bullshit out of your life

more on this here: https://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forum/off-topic/personal-development-bo…

and since I've also been exploring my faith, I'd just go about it this way: explore a bunch of traditions and see what speaks to you. sure there will be cultural constraints (would be pretty hard to be a muslim if your girlfriend's family owns a pig farm), but just see what makes sense to you. for me, this involved a lot of reading and podcasts. I've read judaism, confucianism, hinduism and ancient yogic traditions, buddhism, stoicism, cynicism, pre and post-schism christianity, and more. ask questions of yourself, try to work out ideas with people you know who are open minded and thoughtful (I would say in person, online philosophers are a dumpster fire imo, good for learning/inspiration, not the best forum for debate) when you run across inevitable speedbumps (like: if god is perfect, why is there misery and evil in the world? how should we think about suffering? do acts matter more than faith or vice versa? how to navigate differences in morals?)

finally, if all else fails, give yourself a break. take a long weekend away from it all and do abso fucking lutely nothing stressful. maybe this is like my ideal solo-vacay where I'd find myself on an empty beach, surf a bit, then read books until the afternoon wind settles down for session #2. maybe this is a solo psychedelic journey (or with a trusted guide/sitter), maybe this is you just sitting in your apartment for a few days and doing nothing but purging material possessions you don't need and journaling, maybe this is a weekend away in the mountains going for long walks/hikes with nobody around, but perhaps you could also benefit from literally detaching yourself from your current life, not because you're going to go live in the woods, but because it's difficult to assess storm damage in the eye of a hurricane. you need distance and time to do that effectively

my inbox is always open if you want to talk, totally confidential, best of luck and much love

Similar situation and I think it’s due to being away from family (I am from abroad as well). I have constant internal battles with myself about whether to stay and be “successful” or go home and just live a normal life.

Please only take this with a grain of salt, but if I was in your position in the future (career and money wise) I would 100% be looking to move to my home country (here we might differ as mine is a famous vacation destination) in the very near term.

I recently came to this conclusion while I was taking a couple of months break in between jobs in my home country. I felt free visiting friends and family in different cities, as well as doing some solo trips, in one of which I decided to relax in a small town after talking to the locals and think about what I wanted in life. Btw, I am also confident that I could easily do all of this with a comfortable job in a reputable national player (which with your experience it wouldn't be difficult to get, for a pay cut of course) - I mean, worst case scenario you lose a bit of money and get a job in another PE shop.

There is a certain amount of career success and money for me that is worth trading for these small things in life and, even though I am only a junior, it made me realise everything I had sacrificed already.

Regarding faith, I was raised and still am a Christian (I go to church often and everything) and, although it varies a lot from person to person, I think this can only be a small part of the solution, as it has helped me in life but it has never played a major role in my life decisions.

I wouldn't chase other peoples' dreams.

Do this

Seek a new hobby. Get outside your comfort zone and try some things you haven't done before. Learn a certain style of cooking. Hangliding. Doesn't matter what. Go by yourself but in a public place or with strangers. Make an effort to be present in those moments, maybe connect with the people around you. You may learn a thing or two about yourself.

Seek therapy. Having an isolated vehicle to talk about these things where you can vocally externalize them will help you materialize the emotions that you've probably been sitting on for a long time.

Seek religion (if you want). Former Christian here, raised hardcore southern Baptist. Any intellectual with tussle with biblical interpretation (hermeneutics and exegesis). Developing a relationship with God is something that has to happen on your own time and your own understanding. I am learning Hebrew because of my skepticism around translations. Happy to talk more.

Seek a partner. It sounds like you have friends, but you don't have anyone in particular as that "best friend". That can be your girlfriend, boyfriend, dad, whoever, but you need someone who you can unravel yourself to and vice versa. Besides your therapist.

Coming here is a good start to get the ball rolling and get input and feedback from others in a way that is voicing it per se.

I have quite a few people in my network experience something very similar to what you are describing and while there's a lot of good comments here, I am going to suggest a slightly different approach. When you've been solely focused on advancing your career since graduating college and you haven't had a break, it's fairly easy to lose perspective on why you are doing what you are doing it and not feel fulfilled despite doing all of the "right things". I know it can be difficult for people on the outside looking in when they see someone that has all the hallmark of success not being happy and fulfilled, but it happens way more than you think This industry is a very demanding one, I'm sure you feel that your career so far as been a constant sprint and can leads in a lot of people to a situation where you switch to being a bit on auto-pilot (ie. not caring as much) at some point.Even though you can rationalize that everything is going to plan, it's natural to start to feel "lost" at some point. Probably the best benefit of B-School IMO is that it gives you and opportunity to disconnect and reflect on your career so far while recharging your batteries. TBH, I was pretty burned out when I got into B-School and I don't think I would have been able to perform the way I did had I not taken that 2 year break. 

So to come back to my earlier comment about knowing quite a few people who experienced something similar, what seemed to really work is to take a couple of months sabbatical / leave of absence to travel, do fun things, relax and have that opportunity to step out and realize how fortunate they were to be in the situation that they were in. Now, I appreciate that although it's slowing changing, finance is still not an industry that tend to be super open about taking extended time off, but you'd be surprised on the level of support my friends got. You have to find the right seniors to start having the discussion where bring up that you love your job and really want to be there for the long run, but have been on a sprint for quite some year and starting to feel pretty burned out and think would really benefit from taking a few months off. I would encourage you to think about that option and whether you'd be able to find the internal support to do it. 

I know it's not exactly the same thing, but 2 of the best / most compatible couples among my group of friend have been together since college. Although it always felt that they were "destined" to be together, they both had a period in the mid / late 20s where they ended up breaking off for a few months. They are all 100% aligned that having that time appart really helped them figured out that they were meant for each other and that they wouldn't be as strong a couple if they hadn't done that. 

Sorry to hijack the thread and ask for advice. But just wanted to take you up on your offer. Any advice for associates and senior associates on how to stand out on the job. You clearly crushed it so would be great to learn. Any resources you would suggest to get better at the job

Go to therapy and speak with a mental health professional. You can’t philosophize or logic your way out of your present state of being. 
 

Therapy is private, can be conducted via telemedicine, and is covered by your insurance (your employer will not be notified). You can tell the therapist that you work in a high stress job that you enjoy but are dealing with feelings of burnout and need help with recovering.

Look on Zocdoc or a similar site to find highly reviewed therapists and vet them during initial consultations to make sure they are experienced working with high performers. 

I too am very interested in advice about how to perform well / upgrade ongoing performance in PE, and frankly would love to see you post a thread on it at some point OP.  However, I think the adage "put on your oxygen mask before assisting others" applies well here.  It sounds like you're in a tough spot, so I think we should all try to help on that first.  

Also, I am more junior than you and almost certainly have more to learn from you than the other way around, but hopefully have a couple of useful things to add.  

1.  I am Christian, and can speak to faith providing a valuable roadmap in life about what is important and what is not.  If you don't have a value system that tells you that Point B is better than Point A, it is really hard to motivate yourself to get your ass up and move to Point B.  I have found that hedonism (things, surface level friendships, partying and so forth) can only motivate you so far.  If you feel like you are lacking a roadmap or simply the motivation to do the things that you know are "the right choice", it may be because you don't have your underlying values sorted out.  

2.  I am hyper-logical, so for me personally, it was most helpful to be convinced of God's existence and the truth of Christianity in particular before I tried to engage in Christian community.  Everyone is different, but maybe my advice would be helpful if that is the case for you as well.  I think the most convincing argument for the existence of God (any divine creator) is the Fine Tuning argument, which shows how the best modern science about the early universe points to the existence of an intentional creator.  (Any being which can create the universe is pretty definitionally God). 

I think the best argument for Christianity as opposed to any other version of God is the historical resurrection of Jesus.  Resurrections aren't really a regular occurrence, so if Jesus was crucified and then came back from the dead...let's just say that I think his claims about God carry some serious weight.  William Lane Craig explains this argument very well, but you can also check out this video by InspiringPhilosophy on the historicity of the Resurrection.  (

3.  If you are interested, joining a Church is great and super easy.  If it was me, I would work hard to join a believing Church with a high IQ congregation.  If you haven't really had strong faith historically, you will probably have so many questions.  Many people value their personal experience of God over the more logical thought-process, so finding a Church with people who can answer your questions and may have had an experience more similar to yours is super valuable (either approach is fine, I just think one works better for me).  I am part of an Old World church now, but joining an Evangelical church with a former investment banker pastor was the best thing I could have done.  If you're willing to clarify your city, WSO people would probably love to invite you.  

4.  Whether you're interested in looking into Christianity more, outside of faith, I think life plans, reading the great books and other works, and going out into nature are all really good suggestions.  

5.  I also personally believe that my ancestors are looking down on me.  That, sometimes scary thought, helps to motivate me to do better and try to achieve the greatness that they sacrificed their lifetimes for.  

Finally, whether any of my advice is useful or not, I just want you to know that you are loved, my man.  There's a lot of love and support for you in this thread, and I hope that you can find that in spades in your own life.  To be blunt, you didn't mention a lot of relationships that sounded permanent and trustworthy (friends who are like brothers, direct family and the like).  I have some people in my life that are focused on success and perform on every metric set before them, including doing right by their friends and helping those around them.  My worry for those guys I know though is that because they try to help everyone around them, and don't necessarily show vulnerability, their friendships tend to be somewhat superficial.  I may be totally off base, but I feel like your multiple offers to help people with advice when you ask for advice says something about your personality, whether it be this or something else entirely.  Good luck man.  

Personally, joining a jiu jitsu gym has been the best thing for my mental health

My advice would be to try coasting a bit more at work.

I don’t know if you’re one of those people who feels the need to do work for validation/love but give you’re outstanding in a Grindy job i bet it’s likely.

Your strong reputation will carry you for a while. I’m not saying quiet quit but maybe try taking a few more hours of your day for yourself in a barely noticeable fashion.

(A) "I'm burnt out from relationships too."
 

(B) "My happiest moments are in interactions with completely new people."

Figure out how to do (B) now, and (A) will eventually fix itself.

Sounds like you're in a stage where many are past "still hang out with my college buddies" and pre "I spend time on the golf course or coach little league to interact with other men / my kids".  This is a tricky stage of life to be in.  You're definitely not alone.

"I enjoy my job, and I'm very good at it, to be blunt."

Winning is the prize.  Get back to enjoying that feeling, or think about what new challenge would intrigue you, and seriously consider going after that.

I will tell you what has worked for me, again take with a grain of salt because like others on this forum, I am young.

I do have experience with despair, and grew up in a split household with a heavy drinker so I feel that I have some life experience that pointed me to find direction.

The first thing I would do is read the following:

1. Plato - Euthyphro, Apology, Crito, Phaedo

2. Aristotle - Nicomachean Ethics

3. Cicero - De Oficiis

4. Epictetus - Discourses

If you feel interested in God at this point, then I would recommend:

5. Surprised by Joy - CS Lewis

6. Mere Christianity - CS Lewis

Mere Christianity is gold, if you have little time and don’t feel like going through the rest—at the very least you ought to read that one.

Pm if you have any questions, I still find myself seeking purpose a lot of the time, but the Christian faith has certainly helped point me in the right direction.

I hope this doesn’t come off too corny…. But just wanted to chime in. 

First off, I really appreciate your honesty in sharing your thoughts. It sounds like you've achieved impressive success in your career, and your dedication shines through. Burnout is a tough challenge, and even though you're not seeking solutions, I just want to acknowledge that what you're experiencing is valid.

From what you've described, it seems like you're yearning for a sense of renewal and connection. While there might not be a one-size-fits-all solution, here are a few thoughts that come to mind:

Exploring New Experiences — You mentioned that your happiest moments come from interactions with new people. Perhaps engaging in more varied activities or hobbies outside of work could help rekindle your sense of vitality.

Mindfulness and Self-Reflection — Taking some time for self-reflection and practicing mindfulness can be powerful tools. They might help you gain clarity on what's causing this disconnect and provide insights on how to move forward. Do a gratitude journal! They’re cheesy but damn it works!! 

Small Steps — Start with small, manageable steps to reignite your enthusiasm. Sometimes, focusing on the little things can lead to bigger positive changes.

Seek Support — While you have friends, reaching out to a professional for guidance might offer a fresh perspective on your situation.

It’s okay all the answers right now!! Just taking the time to acknowledge your feelings is a significant step towards finding your way back. You've got a wealth of experience to offer, and your willingness to share your insights on PE/IB advice is really commendable. Feel free to keep venting or discussing whenever you need to.

And finally, I highly highly highly recommend diving into these articles: 

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2023/05/career-advice- happiness-know-thyself/674087/

Take care!!

I would like to ask you a pair of questions regarding PE and IB.

Hello there!I would like to ask you a pajr of questions regarding PE and IB.

What resources help you to acquire all the knowledge you need to perform at your work besides the practical experience gained for the job itself?

What is the most important part of a company's financial report in your opinion?

Thank you in advance!

The solution to your problems is to stop jerking off or having sex. Try it for 60 days...