4.0 Undergrad
For those of you who got a 4.0 in undergrad, how did you do it? What were your study habits and do you have any tips? Im striving for a 3.9+ next year and want to know how you guys got your near perfect GPAs. Any advice is appreciated
For those of you who got a 4.0 in undergrad, how did you do it? What were your study habits and do you have any tips? Im striving for a 3.9+ next year and want to know how you guys got your near perfect GPAs. Any advice is appreciated
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Exactly this. Do extra work up front (diligence on profs) to lessen the burden down the road.
dead on. I also got syllabuses for classes I signed up for in advance and did some pre work during the summer/winter break to at least “flatten” the learning curve during the semester
How did you find out which classes were easy? Word of mouth? Also, did your school allow you to chose your professor? I've never heard of that.
Now I’m very curious what school you go to that doesn’t let you choose your professor
this is the greatest paragraph and most practically useful thing I’ve ever read on this website since I started browsing this about a year and a half ago.
That is ridiculous. School is not a means to IB, it is your opportunity to develop your brain and learn how to think rigorously. This might help you over the short term, but you will not attain your full potential in any field that requires intelligence if all you did during your education years was study easy subjects and how to make a B/S balance. Just look at most successful guys in finance - Icahn was a philosophy buff, so was Soros, Buffet took classes from Graham, etc. Now if you want to jsut be a salesman or something, I agree. But then you should not be studying technicals, you should just be boozing around.
I have been at MBB for some time now, and in some cases I use what I learned in calculus, advanced microeconomics, etc everyday (e.g. decomposing ebitda growth into price and volume changes rigorously, estimating elasticities, understanding particular industry structures)
I wish more people thought like yourself. I 100% agree. Learn for yourself, not for your job.
that’s an IB hardo right there with 75% network/modelling/technicals at the weekend! What about the social aspect and becoming interesting rather than just a machine?
How do you recommend studying technicals? I am thinking about buying Rosenbaum's book for this summer and getting the WallStreetPrep course for next school year.
Other suggestions are pretty lame just do the work and take it seriously? Think I needed to drop one class my entire career. There’s no secret sauce to being good at school you just have to put the effort in.
Agreed but some classes are definitely easier than others. Not a bad idea to take those ones
Oh and contrary to above, take classes you’re actually interested in as those will be your easiest classes since you’ll actually want to do the work (as opposed to slogging through basketweaving)
While I agree with the sentiment about taking easier classes (imo professor matters way more than class), I think spending 75% of your time preparing for IB is overkill. I think balance is critical - make sure you do purely social things that make college fun. For me, being in a fraternity and playing club sports gives me time to relax and do things I enjoy, which in turn keeps me motivated and prepared to grind when I have to, Also, being as organized as possible (put all of your assignments for the week in a calendar, know when exams are in advance, etc) certainly helps. Lastly, I’d say try to be healthy by eating well and exercising regularly - being fit really does help you get the best out of yourself both academically and professionally.
I agree. Seems a little psychotic to dedicate your entire college career to IB. You can do less and still end up with the same result.
The difference between a 3.9 and a 4.0 is marginal in the grand scheme of things. I would take a lot of this advice - do your research to find easier classes, try not to take hard classes concurrently, etc. - but also make sure you enjoy yourself. Trust me, you can enjoy yourself and still achieve all of your goals just fine. Take classes outside of your major that interest you, go out every once in a while, but also make sure to get your shit done.
You don’t need to be an IB robot to get an offer. Besides, you’ll have plenty of time to do that as an analyst anyway
guy say what you want, but if it works, it works.
Agree with all the professors - always take the easiest one and ask your friends for recs. I would also take more quantitative over qualitative classes if you can. Essays, projects, presentations can all be graded differently if the prof likes you or not. Hard to suck up to every prof successfully, but if you take more quantitative exam-focused classes then grading is opaque and objective.
I might ruffle some feathers here, but I’m very much against the “easy class” sentiment above. While I think it’s great to strive for excellence, you shouldn’t allow you’re pursuit of a 4.0 to steer your academic path. Take classes that interest you or that might be outside of your comfort zone. Actively target classes that you think will challenge you intellectually instead of searching for the easy A. I think that being focused on engineering your academic schedule to be as easy as possible can leave you intellectually stunted. In my opinion, a 4.0 isn’t worth much if you didn’t have to push yourself academically to achieve it.
That's a totally fair comment and I understand that different universities will afford their students different liberties. I just wanted to express that I don't believe undergrad education should be viewed only as a means to an investment banking role.
Agree with this — college is the best time to learn, meet people, and have fun. It’s important to study and show effort, but it should come naturally if you’re studying something you love. Total waste of four years if you sacrifice freedom and the opportunity to meet so many cool people in order to achieve incrementally better grades. I’d rather have had a 3.7 and enjoyed my years / gotten something real out of it than been miserable with a 4.0
And would for sure rather have a 3.7 in something challenging and rewarding than a 4.0 in a worthless major
I think that theres no point in paying so much for tuition if your just going to seek the easiest classes and avoid anything even semi-challening. College is about growing and learning about yourself. It the time to take chances and even fail. I took the all of the hardest courses at my school and no I did not get a A's in all of them but I learned the most in these courses. Expanded my knowledge and made me more valuable by doing so. Knowledge and skills are more available than a 4.0 and wasted tuition money. College is for learning. Ps. I had a 3.5 and landed 8 full time offers at BB- now a quant at one of them...
Well it's certianly different if you're a quant. you actually have to know the subject matter really well, and that only comes from taking the (hard) classes that teach them. I think the "gaming the system" method works well for getting the regular IB stuff, but you want to also have a lot of enriching classes there too that can teach you useful things.
It's like how at Penn, everyone clamors to get into the one finance class before they recruit IB summer internships, so they can have something tangible and useful going into it.
It's certainly much more honorable to challenge yourself, but you dont want to overdo that either and tank your GPA.
A kid that has a 3.7 / 3.8 and comes off as incredibly well spoke, truly intelligent and understands concepts, is curious and asks insightful questions provides so much more LTV than someone that clearly just memorized accounting shit and got a 4.0
TBH you don't need a 4.0 in undergrad regardless of where you come from.
I think once you get up to 3.7+ your grades matter less than you think. You can have significantly better college experiences, leadership positions, and valuable research/internships that will help you out more than having a 4.0. In fact getting that 4.0 will probably prevent you in these other areas unless you are just a natural genius.
I have a few friends that were significantly less successful during OCR than I thought who had 4.0 GPAs.
Have also heard that being well-rounded helps the most, thus important to focus on all aspects (grades, internships, friends, sociability, networking, clubs, etc.).
Don’t take STUPID classes that won’t do anything for you. I was majoring in pre-med for a while because I wanted to explore my options —> got a 3.3 and a 3.5 for 2 semesters. I’ve had a 4.0 ever since but average out at about a 3.75. My major GPA is high 3.9 now that I’m back in the business side of things, but my cGPA isn’t anything to call home about.
I calculated it out, and I also took some classes because I thought they sounded cool, but both covered the same general so I didn’t get anything from it. Worse, in each of these generals, I took it once and got an A, then in the other class (which covered the same general) I got a B+ at best. If I started school over, knowing what I wanted from the start, taking only the classes I needed to graduate, I’d have a 3.95 cumulative GPA. I’d probably have more internships too because I would’ve made up my mind sooner about IB.
Class isn’t hard when you have a gift for it and the passion to study. If you love finance/econ, and you’re willing to put in the work, only take those classes. Don’t take the bowling theory class even if you’ve always thought it would be cool to learn how to spin the ball to perfectly hit a pin. Also, if you try something like anthropology but find it stupid, then you’ll get burned every freaking time.
TLDR; don’t take “easy” classes necessarily, but definitely take the classes you’ll work hard in so they will seem easy. Don’t take stupid classes that you don’t need to graduate, be better at planning your schedule.
I have three simple but helpful tips for maintaining a 4.0. be VERY picky with professors. scour rate my professors, ask friends, upperclassmen, etc. generally know who is good and who is not. and by that, I don't mean pick the easy professors who hand out As like candy, because you won't learn much in their classes. I mean choose the professors who are rated as "fair," "dedicated," or generally a good teacher. having someone who can clearly explain material and then gives exams based off that material (not random stuff they pulled out of the footnotes of the textbook) is life-changing. given that you're striving for a 4.0 you are likely a person who actually studies before tests, so combine that with a fair professor and you will be fine.
my second tip is all about mindset. before I start any class I never think "I'm going to fail," I actually tell myself anything is possible with studying. it's very basic and even cheesy, but I know so many students who literally put out into the universe before every test that they're gonna do horribly or joke about getting a D, when you could channel that energy into positive thoughts about yourself.
third tip is to memorize the grade distribution in a class. if homework in total is 10% but each exam is worth 20-30%, then don't waste all your energy on one homework assignment when you could save it for studying for exams. this is especially helpful when you approach the end of the semester and have significantly high grades where it counts. for example, despite not acing every little assignment this semester, I only needed a 73 on the final to get an A in one class and about a 78 in the other. work smarter, not harder.
good luck!
Great tips! I would add that when you’re looking at professors consider your own strengths and pick professors that fit them. For instance, if you’re a better than average writer take a professor who prefers essays, if you’re a shit writer take another. As far as easy classes go, I’d say 100% take at least one preferably two classes that you can spend significantly less time on than your other, two or three more important/difficult classes.
fully agree with the last point! I also make sure to never take more than 2-3 math heavy classes a semester because I know I will lose it during midterms. always good to keep a balance of qualitative/quantitative classes or easy/hard ones.
totally agree but instead of memorizing the grade distribution, make an excel sheet with the weights so you can just plug in your grades and see what you need to get/prioritize
oh yeah definitely that! I personally use an online grade calculator near the middle/end of the semester
Taking easy classes or easy professors is certainly one way to boost your gpa. Given how expensive higher education is, there's certainly a valid argument to just take whatever classes give you a gpa that's attractive to employers. This will make me sound like a nerd, but I enjoy learning, and I like the challenge of taking classes I'm interested in, even if they aren't easy.
My approach up to this point has honestly just been putting the work in. If I ever don't understand something, I'm immediately in office hours or TA hours. It's not fun, and sometimes I have to sacrifice social events for the sake of studying or finishing a project. I justify the occasional late nights by telling myself that I'm putting in the work that other people may not be so that I can achieve my goals. Different people have different priorities, but this works for me.
I'm currently around a 3.97 as a junior, and maybe could have had the perfect 4.0 if I skipped more parties, but it's important to figure out where you can strike a balance. Getting good grades and a prestigious internship is a great feeling, but what's the point if you can't share that experience or happiness with friends.
Something else I've found useful is to rigorously keep track of my grades in a spreadsheet and calculate how each assignment contributes to the final grade. Doing so lets me figure out which classes I can afford to relax a little bit in and which classes need additional effort. If I've been doing well in a class and think I only need an 80% on the final to secure an A, I won't bother memorizing every last detail, and instead I'll redirect that energy to a class in which I have less of a buffer.
tl;dr unless you're on probation, don't make academics your only focus; figure out which classes need the most effort; above all, put in the work
caffeine and adderall baby
go to a non target
Get me coffee intern!
You might have trouble getting classes with the best and easy profs. Remember, everyone will be doing this in this day and age. However, if you join a sports team you'll get priority registration.
I regret not doing sports in college. I could have used a coach that would have kicked my ass and mentored me.
Environment was also important for me. I did a ton of studying in the library, but in my home I would procrastinate like crazy. Find the environment you'll be productive in.
Anki was a huge life saver. It's a flashcard app; it uses a cloud so you can access your cards from your pc on your phone. Best APP ever. if you take notes and write them down in the form of questions on this app, it'll ensure success one exams.
Don’t have a 4.0 myself but know someone who did. Essentially treat every assignment like your life depends on it/never slack off. Be the kid who turns down going out to do that one hw assignment... Would say 3.8+ shows your smart and allows breathing room for the A-s. There are some classes where the difference between an A and an A- is not worth it. Go have some extracurriculars instead. Never had an interviewer ask or comment about my GPA. As long as you have a solid GPA, behavioral questions are all about your varying experiences in college. You can only use studying in the library until midnight/ all nighter for exam So many times...
Just wanted to respond to this and say that I luckily have/had a 4.0 since beginning college and in every single interview I've had it comes up. Its usually a joke about it, or something like "oh wow, how is this even possible"- this was at major BBs mind you. Not trying to brag here but it does make a difference having a 4.0 vs anything else. I can guarantee that if I had a 3.8/3.9 they would have said something like "seems like you've been doing very well in school" but nothing along the lines of "how on earth did you manage this"- as they say in disbelief when they see the 4.0.
To anyone trying to attain the 4.0- keep going for it guys- it is 100% worth it and will make a difference in terms of landing interviews/ MBA admissions, and even securing jobs/the way you are viewed. In the group I was in at a BB, my manager would tell people that he was introducing me to that I had a 4.0 (not to brag but kind of in a teasing/funny way).
I agree with this. It comes up in almost every interview if you have one because it is hard to achieve perfection. I have heard repeatedly that getting a 4.0 is even a big difference from a 3.97, whereas a 3.97 is no different than a 3.90. These are all great GPAs btw, but its just a little extra differentiator.
I would caveat this by saying that the impression of a 4.0 differs on the interviewer. Some people may think that you're really smart and view it as an extreme positive. Others may think you're just a bookworm who only studies 24/7.
I agree with this. I would also add that a 4.0 seems to be a more general measure of intellect or work ethic to some interviewers, in the sense that even if you're at a non target the perfect number is regarded as a bit of a novelty regardless. got comments on it in one way or another at a wide range of firms.
If you had solid extracurriculars/work experience on top of that and that is really impressive. I guess I was referring more to the 4.0 nerd vs 3.8 well rounded business major
I had around a 3.5 semester GPA for first and second semester freshman year. I had a 4.0 semester GPA for first and second semester sophomore year. My classes sophomore year were harder. On top of that, I spent time networking/interviewing. My work ethic did not change. What changed? I used my school's ratemyprofessor system and would spend hours on end optimizing the easiest professors.
this is really a major key. also for me, no rate my professors review = definitely avoid unless someone can tell me something about the prof otherwise.
Agree with you on avoiding profs with no ratings. By default, that means I also avoid profs that are teaching that class for the first time.
I also want to emphasize that the difference between a 3.8 and a 4.0.... I'd say luck plays a 25% role, professor selection 50%, and 25% is study habits / intellect.
Obviously the wider the gap (such as 3.0 vs 4.0), more can be attributed to studying / intellect. However, in my own experience and from talking to my friends, if your GPA is already pretty high (3.8(x), 3.9(x), etc.), the reason why it's not even higher was usually professors / luck.
Helps some but a lot of classes have 1 prof or scenarios where both are difficult (for me at least)
That's a good point. What you're describing is what I would still group under an umbrella term called "luck" btw. Things that are completely out of your control. But that aren't standardized between students.
For example I've had a situation where I took a hard class my freshman second semester that was taught by only 1 professor and it was extremely difficult. Next academic year, they got rid of that professor and now the class is a joke and a lot of freshmen now take it for a GPA boost.
saved
Probably depends on the uni system / course (especially how much group assignments you have) but I got a 4.0 gpa at a German target uni through mainly learning a lot, i.e. memorising / learning stuff by heart.
Hear hear, a fellow kraut! What were the things that had the biggest impact on how you performed? Did you work with lists and flashcards or something like this? I´m doing my masters this year and have to step up my learning game, so any tips and hints would be appreciated.
I didn't use any lists / flashcards whatsoever. I just simply sat down, memorised all lecture slides and repeated the tutorials until I knew all by heart. No big secret really. The German uni / school system just really rewards effort over smarts. So work the system. There are no easy tricks / tips here, just sit down and learn mate. That's why IBs do not use grades as proxy for intelligence but rather as proxy for your work ethic / mentality (in case you are interested in IB).
I’ll share a bit about how I got a 3.9 and hopefully you find my methods to be helpful. I think the key is in time management. As a freshmen, when I wasn’t in class during the day, I was studying in the library. If I didn’t have an assignment due/test the next day, I was getting ahead. Most evenings I studied maybe an hour or two. I would proceed to spend time with friends/ drinking, etc. Usually never studied past 10pm. I would get my work done during the day/evening then flip the switch to relax/drink/time with friends in the evenings/nights. This has worked very well for me. I like to think I have a strong separation between work during the day and social life/other on the evenings. I realise some people can pull of the cramming study style very well, but I rarely have to cram if I maintain these steady habits. I’ve found my time management style to be conducive to a relatively stress free college experience. Give it a shot my friend
big thing is optimizing your schedule. There can be massive differences in professors that could be huge and have a huge impact on your GPA based on how the professor grades, the curve, material taught, etc. Also, depending on what person you are, if you don’t like morning classes, DONT TAKE 8 AM classes, unless there is literally no other way. Same things go if you don’t like evening classes, etc
If you can though, I would actually select the 8am classes, as students who choose those are usually more committed, on average. Worked for me
The difference between a 3.5 and a 3.9 is likely discipline and study habits. The difference between a 3.9 and a 4.0 is dick sucking. The 4.0ers know how to get As on subjectively graded assignments (papers/presentations).
hahaha currently a 4.0 and honestly that’s pretty true
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I consider my high undergrad GPA to be a mark of shame. I was too focused on my GPA and stuck within my lane in my major. WTF was I thinking? Do you think anyone cares that much? I should have used the once-in-a-lifetime opportunity that is college to explore far and wide. I didn't take CS classes, language classes, or life sciences, or really explored. There were topics I was genuinely interested in that I didn't explore at all. I should have been more 'lazy' and de-prioritized my non-essential classes rather than try to complete every assignment, and I should have packed in more classes. I fucked up my undergrad for the sake of a strong GPA. In b-school I did the opposite. I packed a ton of classes into my schedule, and got a lot of breadth, and was on academic probation twice for taking risks like that. If I see an applicant coming in with a 4.0 they'd either be a genius or I know they have their priorities and risk tolerances all backwards.
I have to chime in and disagree, I have a 4.0 so far (almost done - 4 years in), and I took everything outside my major from post-tonal music theory to Chinese to C++, and I’ve kept my GPA, not to mention taking up to 23 credits/semester.
I’m not trying to toot my own horn; the people on this thread could certainly dominate me in anything career-related. That is not at all the point. But I think people who assume my 4.0 is a negative, because they assume a weak course load or unhealthy priorities or whatever, should reflect a bit more and give others the benefit of the doubt. Reflexively dinging someone for succeeding comes across as pretty backwards to me.
Did you attend a large state school?
obviously if you can get all the exploring done and keep a 4.0, kudos to you. My point is not that you need to be penalized for getting a 4.0, but rather that focusing on grades rather than breadth and exploration is getting it backwards. College is a once in a lifetime opportunity to learn and explore and take in a lot of new courses. Grades barely matter in the post-uni interview and definitely don't matter 12 months after graduation. But if you managed to do that and get a 4.0, kudos.
by the way, that's crazy impressive. To get that kind of course breadth and have a high GPA... kudos
Very interesting perspective. Think it honestly depends on the person, etc.
In terms of study habits, I would always 1) go through lecture slides, textbook, & whatever additional resources I needed to understand the material 2) compiled this in a study guide (key here is to write out the information in a way that if you came back to it 1 month later, you could read what you wrote and understand it perfectly again—write in your own words in the way that helps YOU understand it) and 3) then made online flash cards using this study guide on Quizlet (screenshot part of study guide that has the definition/explanation/graph) and use the Learn function to memorize. for exams, I would alternate the flash cards & practice exams/past problems. Key here is to make sure you don’t fall into habit of just memorizing, but memorizing while also understanding and being able to apply it.
I’m not going to lie, this process takes a LONG time and while it may not be the “smartest” or most efficient way to work, it was the best way for me to consistently get good grades in all my classes and maintain my 4.0.
3.6 and below: repeat high school dude 3.7: fucking dumbass 3.8: dumbass 3.9: scholarly, profound, a modern-day Galileo; a true intellectual if you will 4.0: fucking nerd
Aim wisely.
Jokes aside just do the best you can. Leave the parties and drinking until after you finish homework, study, etc. and you should be set. Find ways to game the system any way you can, college is hardly as meritocratic as it should be. Sitting in the front of the class and actually participating goes a long way
did someone say 3.0 @ Rutgers
UK gang punching the air rn
what do you mean by "choosing your classes"??
Context: all of our curriculum is set from the start :(
In the US, classes open to select students first with priority (sports, learning deficient, honors program) and then to everybody.
Many people are on the edge of their seat to get their top professor picks and schedule picks. Some classes have terrible professors or terrible times. Rate my professor tells you all the good/easy professors or ‘hard work but worth it’ types.
I had two majors and a minor in undergrad and was in the honors program and played sports a semester, so had dibs for on classes for most of my college career. It was a real advantage.
In addition to that, I created about 4 classes and created my minor, so I had quite a custom tailored curriculum by the end of my college experience. The created classes were all 1:1 (only teacher and me in room) in the honors program. The teacher knew I wanted and A and basically told me when I earned the A towards the end of the semester.
Much like when you go into the business world, getting As is about conveying your value and contribution towards a concrete goal for the teacher/manager/client.
Lots of good comments here. Also, stay in close touch with your professors and voice that you will do anything possible for an A in the class. If they know you will do anything for the grade, they might let you know if you’re close and give you the benefit of the doubt or help to assign extra projects to make up the grade.
Perfect marks usually help to gain the interview, but after that it’s up to you to close for the position. Good grades help to get in the door, but after that business prowess largely takes over after that.
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