Is UG Ivy Acceptance a Crapshoot?
Are getting into these crazy schools out of high school a crapshoot?
I've had people tell me they got accepted at Harvard, denied at Yale and Princeton. Accepted at Penn, denied at Brown and Cornell.
I am coming from a public highschool in Michigan, a little ignorant to the big world out east.
I guess my real question is should I bother applying to all of these crazy schools, are my numbers in the right spot?
3.92 unweighted GPA (Took AP's and even a few classes at the local University)
33 ACT (35 SuperScored)
Strong EC's (All the normal bullshit, NHS, Business Club President ect.)
Letters of Rec from teachers, a double legacy at penn and a massachusetts rep (Family connection)
Don't hesitate to be honest, do I have the credentials to get into these schools?
Like everything in life, there is an element of skill and an element of luck - you just have to maximize your probability of getting what you want. Your numbers are in the right place, but you need to try to stand out from the mass of kids with similar stats - try your damnedest to write unique and moving essays.
No, you are destined to go to your local community college and work as a janitor.
Damn I was hoping I'd at least make assistant greens keeper at the local golf course.
what race are you
regardless youll get into penn but maybe not wharton, everyone gets into cornell, rest who knows
There's definitely a lot of odds involved. And every school is looking for something different. I got into Wharton but got DEFERRED at Cornell. A friend of mine got into Harvard and Stanford but rejected at Wharton.
Apply to the schools, but don't apply to all of the ivies. From what I've seen, that will actually hurt you. Colleges are looking for students to fit certain spots (e.g.: Wharton is looking for strong business candidates). If you apply to every school in US New's top 20, the colleges will know it, and see you as too broad brushed. Imagine the stereotypical student at MIT vs. Brown vs. NYU vs. Wharton vs. BYU. They all are very unique, partly because they attract those sort of people but also because the school lets in those sort of people!
Just my 2 cents. Good Luck.
This isn't college confidential.
Getting into a top graduate school may be an even bigger crapshoot.
How would we know? I got into Penn with lower hard stats but that was almost a decade ago. It's probably much harder now. But I can tell you with my increased experience that it an "ivy or bust" mentality is totally wrong. There are many schools that will get you into top wall street jobs. Schools like chicago, northwestern, nyu, georgetown, ucla, berkeley, umichigan are 99.9% as good in terms of getting a wall street career- and there are some others too.
Apply to Wharton Early Decision. If you don't apply ED you're rejected. If do, you're in. Your stats are good enough and the double legacy will get you in if it's ED. If it's not ED, you'll be rejected no matter what your stats are as you have a double legacy and applying RD will tell them you aren't fully sold on the school. The other IVY's get so many people with great stats, the apps of the students they will take next year can be thrown out the window and they can still fill the class of 1000 or so with the same talent. But you should ask this on collge confidential chance me forums.
I know someone (Caucasian) who got into Wharton ED last year with a 31 ACT. However, he was the salutatorian, president of NHS, first generation college student and wrote magnificent essays.
You can increase your likelihood with good stats, but nothing's for sure. Had a caucasian friend with top class rank, perfect test scores, great ECs and recs, and solid essays and he got rejected from a few Ivies. I don't think race is determinative, but it is without a doubt a leg up if you are ticking the proper box.
Valedictorian at my rival high school got into all the ivys and stanford but got rejected from Yale. Both of his parents were Yale alums.
Thanks for all the answers guys.
I am Caucasian btw.
Like the one guy said I will be applying to some back ups that are still solid for banking. Umich, GeorgeTown and Uva most likely.
Sorry if the post doesn't exactly fit WSO, but I wanted an answer from a business school perspective.
Brother got into HYPS and Upenn, but was rejected from Cornell and Brown. Again, there will always some luck involved. Hardly anyone gets accepted into every school they apply to.
I got accepted at MIT but rejected from all ivys except Cornell. The Valedictorian of my school went to Princeton but was rejected from Cornell.
The entire ivy league fascination is pretty stupid given that the top schools in regards to ROI aren't ivy leagues.
I'm from a similar background (Public high school in Michigan) with marginally worse stats (34 ACT, 3.8 unweighted GPA with 9 APs and 3 courses at local Uni). I would say most of the admissions for top schools are pretty much a crapshoot, HYPSM being more so. My search wasn't as focused on the Ivy League , so I only applied to two: Cornell and Brown. I was accepted at Cornell, but not from Brown. A buddy of mine with better stats got rejected from Cornell but accepted into Upenn CAS.
Holistic Admissions is another word for making shit up as you go along. You also have to remember that the process is stacked against because you come from a public high school in Michigan the admissions committee probably doesn't know too much about, even if it was one of the top ones in the state.
There's nothing you can do about it except cast a wide net. And don't get caught up with the whole "Ivy League" cachet. I'm skeptical that it matters much in the eyes of employers. Apply to other top schools that just happen to be in other athletic conferences like Duke, Stanford, MIT, Uchic, etc..Employers want to hire smart and hardworking people. A high GPA at a top school is one indicator of that. Hacking one of the tougher majors like Computer Science or Engineering at a less reputable school is another.
As a reference, I also applied to UChicago, Northwestern and Umich. Accepted at Uchic and Umich, but not to Northwestern (because WTF moment in my admissions process).
There is a lot of randomness in the admissions processes of all top schools. A couple of stats that I thought really drove this point home when I was applying to bschool for my MBA (and I'm paraphrasing from memory here, so don't shoot me if these aren't 100% accurate quotes):
From the pool of rejected students, Harvard College could build 4 alternative classes that are identical in every measurable way (not just GPA and SAT, but also race, geographic origin, extracurricular involvement, etc) to the accepted class.
HBS and Stanford GSB receive something like 5000 cross applications each year. Of these 5000 cross applications the two schools can only agree on ~50 cross admits each year, despite enrolling classes of ~1000 and ~400 respectively. That's not significantly more cross admits then you'd get if each school simply picked students randomly from the pool of applicants.
That's not to say that the pool of accepted students at elite schools is not, on average, stronger than the pool of rejected students. Within the applicant pool there are some small number of clear admits and some small number of clear rejects, with the latter ending up in the pool of rejected students and the former ending up in the pool of admitted students. For the other 90% of applicants however there is a lot of luck involved.
With your stats, if you really want to go Ivy, apply to Penn CAS and Cornell. Simply because of their larger size their admissions processes are less random. If you apply to all the Ivy's + some other top schools like Northwestern, Georgetown, Duke, etc you'd have to be pretty unlucky to not get into at least one. However, if you do win the admissions lotto and get into Harvard don't go around thinking that it makes you smarter than the guy at Dartmouth. Chances are you were just lucky :)
Really?. Harvard most certainly does not ding 80% of people with national distinction in academics, athletics, musical ability, etc.? Possibly below some point.
Really?
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