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Wall Street Oasis » Forums » Business School Barrage
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Canadian Grades to GPA?
 

Shadow Rider's picture
Shadow Rider
     
 
(Senior Chimp, 20
 
Points)
 on 1/11/13 at 1:00am
canadian grades.png

I'm currently averaging an 83.3 at Queen's Commerce. If I apply to a bschool for my MBA in the US, what would my grades convert to on a GPA scale for any of the top schools like Harvard, Wharton, Columbia ect? All my grades are above 80 except for one and next to my transcript all of them say "A" and my one 77 grade says "B."

I have heard that Canadian grades are curved up to American grades during the admissions process, is that true?

Mod Note (Andy) this is an old old post, but still ranks very high on search for related terms so i'm bumping it back up to get some fresh responses

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Tags:
  • GPA
  • canadian grades
  • canadian gpa
  • canada
  • Business School Barrage
yesforone's picture

GPA

yesforone
     
 
(Monkey, 55
 
Points)
 on 10/6/07 at 5:05pm

Most schools do not report GPA and the conversion to GPA is difficult. A lot of schools take the following approach which is an approximation using the Ontario Medical School Application Service scale

90 to 100% 4.0
85 to 89% 3.9
80 to 84% 3.7
77 to 79% 3.3
73 to 76% 3.0
70 to 72% 2.7
67 to 69% 2.3
63 to 66% 2.0
60 to 62% 1.7
57 to 59% 1.3
53 to 56% 1.0
50 to 52% 0.7
< 49 0.0

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yesforone's picture

Queens

yesforone
     
 
(Monkey, 55
 
Points)
 on 10/6/07 at 5:06pm

Given my understanding on Queens Commerce and its difficulty, I think an 83% is probabaly comparable to a 3.7/3.8 in the U.S., which is consistent with the table

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eric809e's picture

Whao, those conversions are way too high

eric809e
     
 
 
(Orangutan, 355
 
Points)
 on 10/6/07 at 6:01pm

When comparing GPAs, most b-schools look at the same way they score undergrad scores. In general, Canadian grades are curved DOWN (more leinient scoring and lower passing grades).

Generally 94+ = A = 4.0
90+ = A- = 3.7
87+ = B+ = 3.3
etc.

See this link:
http://www0.gsb.columbia.edu/mba/admissions/apply/...

However, keep in mind undergrad GPA is a small factor of what MBA programs look at. More importantly, it's what you did after college that matters. A 3.3 won't sink you, you do add international experience. Focus on scoring 720+ on the GMATs, building great leadership skills and writing the perfect essay.

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Shadow Rider's picture

Really? Canadian grades are

Shadow Rider
     
 
(Senior Chimp, 20
 
Points)
 on 10/6/07 at 7:42pm

Really? Canadian grades are curved down? The highest average in my year right now is 90, with someone with an 88 being ranked 3rd in the class. While I have a friend at Penn who says 30% of his class is curved to be above 90%. Seems kind of strange that canadian grades are curved down even more even though there's no curve.

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CDNmonkey's picture

Curving Canadian grades down

CDNmonkey
      PE
 
 
(Orangutan, 348
 
Points)
 on 10/6/07 at 8:28pm

Curving Canadian grades down like that makes absolutely no sense. All the top Canadian undergrad business schools mark in a way that makes it nearly impossible to get high 80's, let alone a 90. With that system, the absolute top students at my school would have a 3.2-3.5 GPA at best.

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ssb101's picture

Canadian schools have

ssb101
      IB
 
(Orangutan, 286
 
Points)
 on 10/6/07 at 9:32pm

Canadian schools have lenient scoring and lower passing grades?.....dude come on. This is only true for our highschools.

I assure you that the grading systems in Canadian university programs are just as tough, if not tougher, than our American counterparts.

If that converting scale is true, then I don't know a single person in any year of my program who has a 3.3gpa.....

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jdizz's picture

Ignore eric's post

jdizz
     
 
(Chimp, 7
 
Points)
 on 10/6/07 at 9:55pm

Ignore eric's post. It is completely irrelevant. yesforone's post is spot on. It'd be a 3.7/3.8

Shadow, what's your approx rank in the class?

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mark klein MD's picture

to the OP: just becuase

mark klein MD
     
 
(Senior Orangutan, 436
 
Points)
 on 10/6/07 at 10:06pm

to the OP: just becuase you're canadian doesn't mean you can go around saying shit like "how does canadian grades convert?" if you were russian or something, i'd give you a break, but you['re not. you're just a fucking idiot.

_______________________________________
http://www.drmarkklein.blogspot.com/

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Shadow Rider's picture

Ah ok. I'm currently in

Shadow Rider
     
 
(Senior Chimp, 20
 
Points)
 on 10/7/07 at 12:04am
jdizz:

Ignore eric's post. It is completely irrelevant. yesforone's post is spot on. It'd be a 3.7/3.8

Shadow, what's your approx rank in the class?

Ah ok thanks for making that clear. I'm currently in second year and class rank is not assigned to us on our transcripts. I assume that some people know because they asked the office. But I do know that the highest average is a 90 and exactly 2 people have that. Roughly estimated though, I'd say somewhere between 20-30 out of 300.

mark klein MD:

to the OP: just becuase you're canadian doesn't mean you can go around saying shit like "how does canadian grades convert?" if you were russian or something, i'd give you a break, but you['re not. you're just a fucking idiot.

To mark klein MD: Thanks for pointing that out, I did in fact notice the grammar mistake right after I made the post, but I didn't think there was a way to edit my topic. However, I'd suggest that you watch your own sentence structure, typos, punctuation, capitalization, run-ons, and related errors. If I was going to slam someone else's single grammar mistake, I'd make sure I didn't make 15 times the mistakes in my flame post. As for being an idiot? Well, apparently I have a 3.7 GPA.

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eric809e's picture

okay, let me explain. When I

eric809e
     
 
 
(Orangutan, 355
 
Points)
 on 10/7/07 at 2:22am

okay, let me explain. When I said curved down, i meant the "A" with an 80 will not be taken at the same letter grade value. They generally won't mark that down anymore. I know there are a lot of canadians on this board, but don't take it personally that American's don't think of Queens or Ivey when they think of top-tier business schools.

Comparing Wharton and Queens is not fair. Wharton is much more selective and has significantly more applicants. Although Canada and the US have roughly the same area, the US has about 10x the population. Canada by population is about the size of a large US state (like California or Texas). Just because Queens is one of the top schools in Canada, doesn't mean it's on par with the top schools in America. Take a look at endowment and funding. Wharton is a private school, and gets a lot more money from tuition and endowment per student than Queens (publicly funded). Wharton has more resources to educate their students. In addition, Wharton has a much higher recognition among MDs and recruiters. Ask all the MDs and recruiters in North America, I can guarantee you more will have heard of Wharton than Queens. That might convince students admitted to both schools to choose Wharton than queens.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but people from Queen's have told me their passing grade is 50. On Colubia's table, passing is 60 (and generally holds across US undergrad schools). In terms of grading, I've seen exams from the commerce department from queens, and they were not too difficult. That is a totally subjective view, but that is where I'm basing my comments.

Now, MBA admissions could take Canadian grades at letter grade listed,all As, except for one B. But they could very well take them at their percentages and convert them. Columbia's MBA admissions published a conversion table for percentages to GPA. If the OP was applying to Columbia like he said in the first post, I would suggest that he bases his decision off Columbia's table and not Ontario's medical table.

I know a lot of you are still in college and have not gone through the MBA recruiting process. When I was in college, I worked at a major test prep company and I've seen plenty of qualified candidates not get accepted at their top choice. I'm not trying to start an arugement on a forum, but admissions to top MBA programs are tough, and I want to provide a more realistic view.

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Alex_Kap's picture

It all depends

Alex_Kap
      IB
 
(Senior Baboon, 177
 
Points)
 on 10/30/07 at 10:16pm

Each program is different, Ivey has a scale of 70% to 87%, nothing else. I'm at Schulich, here you can fail or get an A+, but there is no exact grades so we scale it on a 9 scale which I hate.
When I converted mine for U.S. Apps it looks like this:
A+ 9.0 4.0
A 8.0 3.8
B+ 7.0 3.3
B 6.0 2.8
C+ 5.0 2.3
C 4.0 1.8
D+ 3.0 1.3
D 2.0 0.8
F 1.0 0
It's a hassle of a system because we don't get exact grades, like in one class I got 88, but had 8.0, another class I got 79.4 and got bumped to 79.5 or 80 and got an 8.0, but techically thats 8% difference, and could have a big impact on your GPA.

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mattown's picture

Canadian Schools

mattown
      O
 
(Chimp, 10
 
Points)
 on 11/3/07 at 5:37am

I think it depends really on your program. I took astrophysics and my department was the best in Canada, at least from the research side.

I didn't have a super high GPA by the standards on this forum (~3.3ish) but I knew I was in the upper 10% of my class, actually I lied, I was the class when I graduated o_0. Plus a lot of my courses were on a bell curve, i.e. only x amount were to receive A's, etc. I didn't know a single person with a GPA above 3.8 in the honours program. Close? Yes, but the system was brutal. Definitely not the same in other departments so really, how can you compare GPAs?

I had a 3.8 in the beginning but I attribute that to not working. During my 2nd and 3rd year my GPA dropped because I devoted a lot of time to my two businesses and my radio personality on campus. I'm glad I engaged in these activities despite missing some assignments, resulting in B's instead of an A's. Again, how do you compare my situation to someone who got a 3.6 instead, yet developed less business acumen and had worse work experience? The fact I engaged in these activities made me stand out and obtain positions the kids with 4.0s, but with no experience were trying to get.

I find with the sciences, to truly do well you must devote a *shitload* of time to learning the material, however with classes like economics, english, etc it's much easier to balance work/school. So I don't think my point is really applicable in those areas, but I think it is for really difficult programs.

I remember I had one lab prof who insisted on never handing out a perfect mark on our labs. He told us, if you get a 10/10, it means you have performed the experiment better than anyone else in history. Not surprisingly, the %'s were very low in the class.

How in the world do you convert a GPA score with a course ran by someone like that, I mean the highest mark was a 84%? Does that kid really deserve a 3.7?

GPA is just a number and it's really hard to compare it with others, obviously the higher the better but it really depends on the program and school. The GMAT is nice because it's standardized, and that is why it matters a whole lot more in admissions.

So I don't think it is the be all end all to one's success but I can understand why BB's may prefer to use it as a hiring gauge however when it comes to b-school applications, it certainly is only one factor of many that they consider.

I think GPA conversion should really be the last of every applicant's worries. So OP, don't even worry about this GPA conversion shit. If you really have the business talent worthy of a top business school like Wharton, I'll assume you've demonstrated *it* in some way, GPA or not.

That is what I would be most worried about, but hey, what do I know, I haven't applied to business school...yet maybe? Haven't decided yet.

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Senior Peon's picture

My longest post ever...

Senior Peon
      IB
 
(Chimp, 4
 
Points)
 on 11/6/07 at 11:01pm

I'm a Queen's Commerce grad and currently at a top-3 US MBA school. I wouldn't worry about this very much. I recommend using the scale below, unless the school has provided specific instructions to use a different scale (as described above for Columbia). It is basically the "standard" scale for calculating GPAs and thus completely justifiable (far more so than a random medical school scale or "I think 83.3% looks like ...), but it will also position you more positively than any of the alternatives discussed.

"A" (i.e. 80% and over) = 4.0
"B" (i.e. 65% and over) = 3.0

Obviously it's easy for someone to say, "But you can't possibly equate a 65% with a 3.0!" I agree it seems a little "messed up," but that's the way Queen's shows grades on its transcripts and you should use it to your advantage. Your job is to convince the admissions committee to accept your application. It is the admissions committee's job to evaluate your application and make any adjustments they see fit to compare grades across schools. My understanding is that they take a quick look at your school, grades (including class rank in most cases, which is probably the more comparable metric for academic perfomance across different schools/programs), GMAT, and work experience. If you meet the threshold here, they take a longer look at your essays and recommendations. Interview results are usually only used on the margin. They will be familiar with Queen's Commerce and could calibrate your average relative to past/current students who went to Queen's, but probably wouldn't bother.

Of course, I can't resist throwing in my two cents on the debate between Queen's and Wharton either. Wharton is clearly the stronger global brand and this is probably the most important measure of a business school in my view. If money wasn't an issue, I would have gone there for undergrad over Queen's. However, Queen's was a great business education also and I think the quality of teaching/students at least matches that of any other school. The brand and network isn't as strong as Wharton globablly, but you won't run into many MDs who haven't worked with colleagues from Queen's and come to respect the school. If you do well at Queen's you will end up with the same job as someone who did well at Wharton and have the same shot at a top MBA. As for grading, the "Wharton curve" probably means its harder to get an A on your transcript than it is at Queen's. However, scoring a high percentage on an exam or in a class (e.g. greater than 90%) is probably harder at Queen's.

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mattown's picture

Senior Peon, With your scale

mattown
      O
 
(Chimp, 10
 
Points)
 on 11/7/07 at 6:53pm

Senior Peon,

With your scale I now I have a GPA of 3.57!

ha! show me a link to this scale, I think I may have an excuse to raise my GPA on my resumes

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ssb101's picture

I think its just the

ssb101
      IB
 
(Orangutan, 286
 
Points)
 on 11/7/07 at 10:16pm

I think its just the standard 4.0 system:

A+/A= 4.0
A- =3.7
B+ =3.3
B =3.0
B- =2.7
c+ =2.3

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pc's picture

in defense of canadian grades

pc
      VC
 
(Chimp, 1
 
Points)
 on 11/20/07 at 12:38pm
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CPA guy's picture

Canadian GPA conversion chart

CPA guy
      IB
 
(Chimp, 15
 
Points)
 on 12/4/07 at 12:23pm
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x's picture

Look at how UK universities

x
      O
 
(Baboon, 112
 
Points)
 on 12/5/07 at 3:49am
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ratul's picture

Queen's grades are hard to

ratul
     
 
(Gorilla, 580
 
Points)
 on 12/12/07 at 5:23am
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x's picture

I agree that a 83 from

x
      O
 
(Baboon, 112
 
Points)
 on 12/12/07 at 6:50am
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LBJ's picture

I agree with this post. Yes

LBJ
      IB
 
(Senior Baboon, 197
 
Points)
 on 3/14/08 at 9:16pm
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nauru's picture

Please do not abuse the term

nauru
     
 
 
(Senior Orangutan, 375
 
Points)
 on 3/18/08 at 11:09am
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StrangeLight's picture

...

StrangeLight
      O
 
(Chimp, 1
 
Points)
 on 5/12/08 at 12:13am
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yellowtop's picture

....

yellowtop
      CO
 
(Chimp, 3
 
Points)
 on 7/31/08 at 2:40pm
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iveyleaguedipshit's picture

dear nauru

iveyleaguedipshit
      IB
 
(Chimp, 1
 
Points)
 on 11/25/09 at 11:32am
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ssbank's picture

Ivey isn't "ivy league" lol

ssbank
      IB
 
(Chimp, 14
 
Points)
 on 5/29/10 at 3:16pm
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Bi-Winning's picture

http://www.queensu.ca/artsci/

Bi-Winning
     
 
(Gorilla, 708
 
Points)
 on 1/8/11 at 12:09am

I win here, I win there...

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TDA IS ME's picture

yesforone wrote: Most schools

TDA IS ME
     
 
(Chimp, 1
 
Points)
 on 3/19/12 at 7:54pm
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roofstreet's picture

I have to agree. I had the

roofstreet
      PE
 
 
(Senior Orangutan, 454
 
Points)
 on 1/11/13 at 3:03am

"...the art of good business, is being a good middle man, putting people togeather. It's all about honor and respect."

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mehp's picture

Oh great, another canada vs

mehp
     
 
(Senior Baboon, 237
 
Points)
 on 1/11/13 at 9:15am
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Outsider's picture

lol @ op, canada eh? u r like

Outsider
     
 
(Senior Monkey, 66
 
Points)
 on 1/11/13 at 3:10pm

How big is yours?

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GS_McK's picture

The exiting QC class of 2012

GS_McK
     
 
(Chimp, 5
 
Points)
 on 1/21/13 at 10:01pm
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Macro Arbitrage's picture

GS_McK: The exiting QC class

Macro Arbitrage
      HF
 
(King Kong, 1,369
 
Points)
 on 1/24/13 at 11:22pm

"I swear, by my life and my love of it, that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine."

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As a condition to your use of this site, you release the Company (and our agents and employees) from claims, demands and damages (actual and consequential, direct and indirect) of every kind and nature, known and unknown, suspected and unsuspected, disclosed and undisclosed, arising out of or in any way connected with such disputes. If you are a California resident, you waive California Civil Code d1542, which says: "A general release does not extend to claims which the creditor does not know or suspect to exist in his favor at the time of executing the release, which if known by him must have materially affected his settlement with the debtor."

We are under no legal obligation to, and generally do not, control the information provided by other users which is made available through the Web Site. By its very nature, other people?s information may be offensive, harmful or inaccurate, and in some cases will be mislabeled or deceptively labeled. We expect that you will use caution and common sense when using this Web Site.

The Material may contain inaccuracies or typographical errors. The Company makes no representations about the accuracy, reliability, completeness, or timeliness of the Web Site or the Material. The use of the Web Site and the Material is at your own risk. Changes are periodically made to the Web Site and may be made at any time.

You acknowledge and agree that you are solely responsible for the content and accuracy of any resume or material contained therein placed by you on the Web Site and you agree to let any users that are identified as recruiters (designated in the sole discretion of the Company) to have access to your resume.

The Company is not to be considered to be an employer with respect to your use of the Web Site and the Company shall not be responsible for any employment decisions, for whatever reason made, made by any entity posting jobs on the Web Site.

THE COMPANY DOES NOT WARRANT THAT THE WEB SITE WILL OPERATE ERROR-FREE OR THAT THE WEB SITE AND ITS SERVER ARE FREE OF COMPUTER VIRUSES OR OTHER HARMFUL MECHANISMS. IF YOUR USE OF THE WEB SITE OR THE MATERIAL RESULTS IN THE NEED FOR SERVICING OR REPLACING EQUIPMENT OR DATA, THE COMPANY IS NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR THOSE COSTS.

THE WEB SITE AND MATERIAL ARE PROVIDED ON AN "AS IS" BASIS WITHOUT ANY WARRANTIES OF ANY KIND. THE COMPANY, TO THE FULLEST EXTENT PERMITTED BY LAW, DISCLAIMS ALL WARRANTIES, WHETHER EXPRESS OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING THE WARRANTY OF MERCHANTABILITY, FITNESS FOR PARTICULAR PURPOSE AND NON-INFRINGEMENT. THE COMPANY MAKES NO WARRANTIES ABOUT THE ACCURACY, RELIABILITY, COMPLETENESS, OR TIMELINESS OF THE MATERIAL, SERVICES, SOFTWARE, TEXT, GRAPHICS, AND LINKS.

Disclaimer of Consequential Damages.

IN NO EVENT SHALL THE COMPANY, ITS SUPPLIERS, OR ANY THIRD PARTIES MENTIONED ON THE WEB SITE BE LIABLE FOR ANY DAMAGES WHATSOEVER (INCLUDING, WITHOUT LIMITATION, INCIDENTAL AND CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES, LOST PROFITS, OR DAMAGES RESULTING FROM LOST DATA OR BUSINESS INTERRUPTION) RESULTING FROM THE USE OR INABILITY TO USE THE WEB SITE AND THE MATERIAL, WHETHER BASED ON WARRANTY, CONTRACT, TORT, OR ANY OTHER LEGAL THEORY, AND WHETHER OR NOT THE COMPANY IS ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES.

Links to Other Sites.

The Web Site may contain links to third party web sites. These links are provided solely as a convenience to you and not as an endorsement by the Company of the contents on such third-party Web sites. The Company is not responsible for the content of linked third-party sites and does not make any representations regarding the content or accuracy of materials on such third party Web sites. If you decide to access linked third party Web sites, you do so at your own risk.

No Resale or Unauthorized Commercial Use.

You agree not to resell or assign your rights or obligations under these Term of Use. You also agree not to make any unauthorized commercial use of the Web Site.

Limitation of Liability.

The aggregate liability for the Company to you for all claims arising from the use of the Materials is limited to $1.

Termination.

The Company reserves the right, at its sole discretion, to pursue all of its legal remedies, including but not limited to immediate termination of your registration with or ability to access the Web Site and/or any other service provided to you by the Company, upon any breach by you of these Terms and Conditions or if the Company is unable to verify or authenticate any information you submit to the Web Site registration with or ability to access the Web Site.

Indemnity.

You agree to defend, indemnify, and hold harmless the Company, its officers, directors, employees and agents, from and against any claims, actions or demands, including without limitation reasonable legal and accounting fees, alleging or resulting from your use of the Material or your breach of the terms of these Terms and Conditions. The Company shall provide notice to you promptly of any such claim, suit, or proceeding and shall assist you, at your expense, in defending any such claim, suit or proceeding.

General.

The Company makes no claims that the Materials may be lawfully viewed or downloaded outside of the United States. Access to the Materials may not be legal by certain persons or in certain countries. If you access the Web Site from outside of the United States, you do so at your own risk and are responsible for compliance with the laws of your jurisdiction. These Terms and conditions are governed by the internal substantive laws of the State of New York, without respect to its conflict of laws principles. Jurisdiction for any claims arising under this agreement shall lie exclusively with the state or federal courts within New York, New York. If any provision of these Terms and Conditions are found to be invalid by any court having competent jurisdiction, the invalidity of such provision shall not affect the validity of the remaining provisions of these Terms and Conditions, which shall remain in full force and effect. No waiver of any term of these Terms and Conditions shall be deemed a further or continuing waiver of such term or any other term. Except as expressly provided in additional terms of use for areas of the Web Site a particular "Legal Notice," or Software License or Material on particular Web pages, these Terms and Conditions constitute the entire agreement between you and the Company with respect to the use of Web Site. No changes to these Terms and Conditions shall be made except by a revised posting on this page.

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The Company recognizes that you are concerned about privacy. We are committed to preserving your privacy and safeguarding your sensitive information. The following statement describes the general information-gathering and usage practices of our sites.

Our staff, contractors, Internet service providers and others involved in this site follow this policy or similarly strict policies regarding your Information.

Disclosure

The Company is committed to fully disclosing our policies regarding the collection, use, maintenance, disclosure and security of personal information obtained from users of our site. The term "personal information" includes a name, address, email address, or any other information which could be used to contact you directly or to identify you personally.

Use and Disclosure Limitations

The Company only uses personal information about its Web site users for specific purposes. We do not share user information with third parties except when we have told users about the disclosures, when we have prior consent, or when required by law.

Use Policy: When the Company gathers personal information from users, we ask for permission first. We also disclose, at the time of collection, how the information will be used by us. Personal information is used for activities such as auto-completion of commonly-used forms and helping us contact you when you solicit information from us.

Disclosure Policy: We do not normally disclose personal information to anyone outside of the Company unless we have previously informed users about the disclosures. However, some data may be used from time to time by outside contractors, including auditors or consultants, to assist us in carrying out necessary financial or operational activities. These uses will be consistent with this privacy policy and all contractors using this potential personal information must agree to safeguard it, to use it only for the authorized purpose, and to return it or destroy it upon completion of the activity.

The Company might be required to disclose personal information in response to a valid legal process such as a subpoena, search warrant or court order.

Although unlikely, it is possible that we may have to make certain disclosures to ensure the security of our Web site, to protect its integrity, or to take precautions against potential liability. In any of these situations, we will take any reasonable steps to limit the scope of the data disclosed.

Web Logs: The Company maintains standard Web logs that record basic information about visitors to our Web site. These logs contain: * The Internet domain from which you came to our Web site. * Your IP address. An IP address is a series of numbers which uniquely identifies your connection to the Internet. Although it is possible in some instances, certain types of IP addresses may be used by interested persons to identify users but we do not attempt to identify users in this way. * The type of browser (e.g., Internet Explorer or Netscape) and operating system (e.g., Windows 98) you use. * The date and time you visited the site, and the pages you saw.

We use Web log information to design our Web site, identify popular features, and in similar ways. We do not try to identify individuals from Web logs or to link Web logs to other user information. However, if someone tries to damage our Web site or use it in an unauthorized or illegal way, we may share Web log information with law enforcement agencies. The Company may provide aggregate information such as the number of users who visit particular pages of the site, or the number of people who link to certain external sites from our site, to other parties.

Changes to Privacy Policy

The Company's features and services will change over time and our information-gathering practices and policies may also change.

While our philosophy of protecting user information from inappropriate uses and disclosures will not change, this policy will be updated occasionally to include any change that materially affects the collection, maintenance, use, or disclosure of personal information.

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