IU but no Kelley
I got into Indiana University but didn't get into Kelley as a direct admit. I want to go to Indiana because I really like the experience I'd get there, but I'm prioritizing becoming an investment banker. Do I still have a good chance of getting into the IB workshop sophomore year and the finance clubs freshman year if I get into Kelley as a sophomore?
I think if you're in Kelley for sophomore year and you have a high GPA/qualified for IBW, you should be fine.
OK, thank you
Did you get in anywhere else?
I haven't gotten any of my other acceptances back yet so I don't know. I'm applying to Boston College, UT Austin, University of Maryland and Loyola Maryland as well but I doubt I'm getting into the first two.
College applications are a shitshow. I don't think I even have to tell you that BC & UT >>>> IU (Kelley or otherwise), but I'm saying it anyway. I personally would also prefer UMD to IU.
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Have you heard from BC yet?
I think there's a pretty famous quote along the lines of "you know you're in a bubble when the person shining your shoes is giving you stock advice"
Is there anything similar when every single high schooler with below a 30 on the ACT and a sub 3.3 GPA wants to go into investment banking? I mean shit, I go to a smallish private semi-target that has good placements but is known for not having a huge interest in IB. There are probably 100 incoming freshmen at my school who want to be an "investment banker" from day one, and it's not because they have family in the business. It's because they google careers with the highest compensation and find their way here eventually from spending way too much time online.
Before I get absolutely roasted for this accurate take, I come from a lower-class background and am going to an EB this summer, I'm not someone who thinks the lower-classes should just fuck off. But I got into the process naturally and from learning from my classes and being friendly with upperclassmen. Am I the only one who is scared of the exponential rate of these foaming at the mouth hardos? (This isn't 100% at the OP, but the trend is growing way too quickly.) Many people on this site are far too optimistic about their chances of breaking in with the extreme growth of interested applicants, especially when they come from a shit school with a bad GPA and are a white male (diversity initiatives can fuck off, but w/e).
This mf didn't even answer the question
LOLOLOL
Bro this is a cold take, a bunch of baseless assumptions. First, I'm not a white male, second, I didn't find out about investment banking through a youtube compilation of the highest paying jobs or something, I Iove finance and the stock market, I turned my family's portfolio of 140k to 210k in less than a year and I want to work for a hedge fund, I know IB is the smartest way through, hence me wanting to go to a good institution like IU Kelley. I realized this later on in high school, so, yes my GPA is subpar, but fr stfu, you're not even an analyst yet and you're this ignorant and cocky.
Definitely ignore their comment. Also it’s very possible to get into IB with less than a 30 ACT and below 3.3 gpa. Just focus on doing well in college and networking hard.
Would like to add that I’m not sure IB is the best route to eventually reach a hedge fund. Some firms/groups yes it’s possible, but there is very little overlap between IB work/skills and HF work/skills.
.
"love the stock market"
"wants to work in investment banking"
dude do you even know what a banker does?
No. This sounds exactly like what happened. Judging by the fact that you “love the stock market” and you “grew your family’s investments”, you want to do trading. But then you came on WSO and saw all the S&T slander and now you think “shit, I can’t do that anymore, I have to be an INVESTMENT BANKER". It sounds like you don’t even know what IB is. The comment above is harsh, but right in a lot of ways. You need to let this interest develop naturally. If you chase money you will be unhappy. Especially in this industry
You should put “grew family’s portfolio 50% YTD” on your application. Bonus points if it was TSLA-based.
You aren't even an intern yet please hop off your high horse
someone: breathes
Random prospect: I’m going to an EB
What if it’s a 1500 SAT but a 3.1 GPA lol
But YOU are special, right?
This is one of the worst takes I’ve ever heard in my life.
1. Interest from people across the test score / GPA spectrum is not anything new, and the people who aren’t fit for IB will often not make it (read as, most people who try to get into IB will not get into IB)
2. What do kids looking up, and being drawn to the highest paid jobs have to do with the idea that we’re in a bubble
3. Low test scores and GPA are not equal to being the proverbial shoe shine boy (not even sure what the proverbial shoe shine boy would be in IB)
I’m not even sure what the point is that you’re trying to make (pretty sure you don't even know, just trying to do some mental masturbation), but it’s surely not a good one and this reads horrifically gate keeperey.
I think there’s been a couple non Kelley individuals in it before but I think your odds are extraordinarily low without being in Kelley. If you really want banking you are probably best off taking easy classes, getting an outstanding GPA (3.9+) and then transferring to a target. This sounds extreme but it’s realistic.
And to the person who said the “mouth foamer” comment. No offense but I know people who had somewhat average grades and test scores in high school who really worked hard in college to get outstanding grades from semi targets and non targets and got into banking. I think that mentality is what is very crazy about this system actually. Because you were smarter than most when you were 16 and 17 years old doesn’t mean people who weren’t as interested as you were (or didn’t have helicopter parents riding them about grades) at the time should be excluded altogether from then on. Realizing what you want to do at the age of 18 has merit in and of itself, many people at that age are aimless.
I think where you are right is that just because you have the desire to do something doesn’t mean you aren’t entitled to it. You have to work very hard knowing that at the end of the day you still may fail.
Doesn’t mean you are entitled to it
Kelley student here, reiterate what others have said if you’re not a DA freshman year don’t stress you can get in your sophomore year. Just note that you need to take F 355 for the IBW fall sophomore year. Keep your GPA above 3.8 and join the financial services club this will help you. Join clubs you have a passion for and that will set you apart.
I'm a Kelley 2020 grad, and was good friends with IBW people. It's possible but difficult. Lots of people are finance majors, have good GPA's, are involved with the club but still don't make the cut. That being said, a couple of non-Kelley guys have also made it into the workshop. There's a parallel workshop called the Capital Markets and Banking Workshop which is not as competitive but still very much so. A lot of them get into IB MM banks. With a good story, GPA, extracurriculars and interviews, it's possible.
...
Yeah you are right your ACT score is clearly an investment banking aptitude test. If you don’t do well on that, why even try?
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Most of these commenters have no idea what they’re talking about. First off, there are 0 members of the workshop who are not in Kelley and there haven’t been in recent memory. You have to be a Kelley student to take F355, which is the class you take for the IBW and CMBW. BUT, once you’re at IU it’s not hard to get into kelley. I was in your same boat - fucked up my GPA in high school and didn’t get DA but knew I wanted to do banking. If you get a 3.5+ GPA freshman year you are AUTOMATICALLY admitted to kelley, no questions asked. got in my sophomore year and am now in the CMBW (spinoff of the IBW that places into a lot of the same banks, but with a focus on ECM, DCM, and LevFin). Whether you get into kelley as a freshman or a sophomore has no effect whatsoever on the IBW. Just focus on your grades and you’ll be fine
Thank you so much, this was very helpful.
no problem, feel free to pm me if you have any more questions about kelley or the workshops
You are actually wrong I know for a fact there was a non Kelley student in it at one time.
I’m sure there were at some point before F355 became required, but the process has become more stringent every year and I can definitively say that there haven’t been any non-kelley kids admitted for at least 2 years and won’t be for the foreseeable future/for the purposes of OP
I was in the exact same boat my freshman year of college. I didn’t focus enough on school work and was unable to get into Kelley. Ended up transferring to my hometown college. Dedicate yourself to your school work so you get into Kelley, don’t make the same mistake I did. Have fun at IU!
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Looking on Linkedin there seems to be a good number of kids going to BBs and EBs in each class
Bro. You’re the same prospect commenting all over this forum. The kid is asking a serious question and all you’re doing is trolling.
I was in your exact position 5 years ago. I went to a different non-target instead of Indiana, because I also didn't get DA into Kelley. The school consistently gets made of on this board, so I'm not really talking about UTA caliber here, and I think I made the right decision.
It's extremely difficult to get into Kelley if you weren't a DA. A c+ in a one of their weed-out classes would torpedo your entire application, and then you can kiss your IB dreams goodbye (yes, even if you have a fantastic cumulative GPA).
My advice would be to go to another school that won't kick you to the curb. The IBW weighs standardized testing scores as a significant factor, and contrary to what others might say, I wouldn't be surprised if not being a DA impacts your application. There are plenty of other schools with IB workshops that place just as well as the IBW, and are maybe even less selective. Check out the investment banking groups at your other top schools, and that might help you make your decision.
Grandson of a Purdue grad. Go to Krannert or somewhere other than Kelley.
To preface this I was also a standard admit and just went through the workshop recruiting process myself. If you're a non-diversity kid you really don't have any chance of getting into the IBW without being a DA, that's just being extremely honest. You would need to maintain an immaculate GPA (3.9+) through your freshman year to have a shot. There are only so many seats in F355 (taken fall of your sophomore year which is why you need to have a high GPA through your freshman year to be competitive for enrollment) which is a required class for both the CMBW and IBW workshops. You apply to the CMBW and IBW through this class and your admission is based on class performance and a couple of other factors (note that the brightest kids at the school with 3.9+ find this class difficult but extremely engaging). There is also a recommended class F255 spring semester of your freshman year that you will not be able to take (because you're not a DA) which will be a disadvantage. If you manage to get into F355 you will need to have competent interviewing skills, the class will help you with this. A surprising portion of the roughly 150 kids (although by the end of the semester it might be around 80-90) within F355 do not get into the CMBW or the IBW. Not saying it's impossible but this is an extremely tough uphill battle that many people go into Kelley thinking they can overcome and do not. If you are diversity your best play would be to join the Financial Services Club (you need to join this for both CMBW, IBW, and IMW as it incorporates a lot of networking aspects), and the Finance Diversity Program. If you get into the Finance Diversity program you will still need to work extremely hard but doors will be a lot more accessible and realistic for you. In your shoes and just based on your interest you need to start reading the WSJ and focus your ambitions on the IMW which will still require a 3.9+ by the fall of your sophomore year to have any real shot at getting into.
This is only what entry into banking at Kelley looks like, I'm not sure about other schools. Additionally, if you don't get into Kelley the jigs up and I would highly recommend transferring if you are still passionate about banking. A lot of banks don't have an Indiana University in their drop-down and instead, it says the Kelley School of Business.
Dude are you an idiot. IBW doesn’t give a shit about DA or not, they only care about how you do in the class. Also in their application process they don’t even ask if you were a DA or not. BTW It’s incredibly easy to get into Kelley as a standard admit. There’s a website called IU grade distribution that lists the grade distributions of each teacher in history at IU. If you use the website well you can plan your class schedule so that all your teachers give 100% A rates. All you need is a B+ average freshman year to get into Kelley.
Do you go to IU? A100, M118, and K201 are considered the tough classes freshman year and they all cover the same content and you will be taking the same exact final regardless of what teacher you have. A100 which is the most dropped class in Kelley is taught by the same teacher for every section...... you can't just enroll in F355, like I said there are only so many seats.
Also, you're right no one will ask you if you are a DA ever but not being a DA will put you at an inherent disadvantage when trying to apply to these workshops. F355 enrollment is exclusive to Kelley kids and you need departmental approval to enroll so by the time you find out you've been accepted into Kelley the class may already be full.
Also, you don't seem too familiar with the enrollment process for classes in general. A lot of the time, especially as a standard admit there will only be 1-2 sections to pick from that fit your schedule. Attempting to find the right prof is important ofc but isn't something you should count on.
Thank you, your advice helps as you just recently went through the process. I appreciate how specific and realistic you were as well.
This kid is hyping up the workshop and Kelley entrance process. It's honestly not that bad and you don't need a 3.9 to get in.
Dude what are u talking about lol I was a standard admit and I took F255 freshman year before getting into kelley just like literally all the other prereqs (a100, etc) that EVERY standard admit takes. Also had no problem registering for F355 and just got in to the CMBW. Does not matter at all if you’re DA or not
I have some ideas for Capital Markets / IBD Workshops / and even that ESG/Sustainable Course to do exercises to build a skillset in leveraged finance / loan capital markets & syndicate, and even Sustainable Loans. Can someone provide me an intro and / or put me in contact with an Indiana Faculty member / admin to discuss the range of options. Happy to discuss how you can implement yourself, or even how I could host a "Lev Fin Day". Looking to build credibility by teaching at colleges / volunteering my Insights beyond WSO
I'd reach out directly to Steven Sibley
I’m in the CMBW which includes Levfin as part of the curriculum. New member but I’m sure the TAs would be open to it - feel free to dm me
I reached out to him - no answer yet. Email was probably too long.
Any detail on the Lev Fin workshop? I'm literally teaching how to do the exact job on Day 1 (and year 1-3). If anyone can provide an intro for me (after speaking) / want to connect and learn about Lev Fin, and get sent some draft exercises others have worked on from WSO, let me know. 1 kid recently said he "learned more in our 30 min convo than in 3 years of college". Basically I've individually helped ~25-30 WSO ppl learn in depth on phone/email etc. since I joined in March 2020c honestly could be more (DMed w over 100), and it would be easy to do so to a larger audience. But really I just think Indiana is a cool school and I love Bobby Knight and want to get involved. I can also help w Direct Lending/Private Credit, and Restructuring. A WSO kid is helping me w/ creating Restructuring materials right now - got him on a couple projects to choose from at his own pace
yes. I’m at IU in a workshop, if you need advice PM me
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