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Wall Street Oasis » Forums » Get a Job
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Is it hard to get a BO job right now?
 

exhausted's picture
exhausted
     
 
(Chimp, 4
 
Points)
 on 12/7/11 at 7:03pm
BACK2.jpg

Assuming one wanted to get a job doing something along the lines of trade settlement (not for the purpose of trying to move to the FO, just because they thought it was an intrinsically desirable position), are such jobs becoming increasingly scarce as trading jobs themselves are being cut and trading volumes decline? Even if the number of BO jobs is remaining stable, is it likely that recently laid off traders are flooding into these jobs in the hopes of networking their way back to the FO? Oh, and one more question (because I'm a noob), are entry level BO jobs only available at banks, or do hedge funds also hire entry level BO employees?

Any insight on this from the people in the trenches would be greatly appreciated.

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rothyman's picture

I'd say it's a litle more

rothyman
      HF
 
 
(King Kong, 1,163
 
Points)
 on 12/7/11 at 11:23am

I'd say it's a litle more difficult than usual to get any job @ a BB right now. A lot of BBs are going the contractor route for BO jobs (aka hiring workers on 3-6 months temp to perm contracts with no benefits and hourly pay). It's less risk on their part in a time when they don't know where the markets are exactly heading.

You talk about trade settlements as if it is a major part of BO jobs @ BBs, while actually it is only a small part of the BO/MO. There are a plethora of compliance, paper pushers, and adminstrative related jobs that all fall into BO. From what I have seen, it is extremely hard to get a BO job that involves being on the trading floor if you are entry level (such as trade support/trade settlement). And yes, HF hire trade support guys but they usually prefer at least 1 year of experience @ a BB on the trading floor. The alternative is knowing somebody @ a HF.

And no, I don't think traders are taking BO roles. I just don't see it happening. They'd rather go trade their own capital or go consulting than stoop down to a BO job. Once you work FO, I don't think you every really go back to working below that (unless you're nuts).

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In reply to rothyman
UFOinsider's picture

rothyman wrote: Once you work

UFOinsider
      O
 
(Human, 10,466
 
Points)
 on 12/7/11 at 11:36am
rothyman:

Once you work FO, I don't think you every really go back to working below that (unless you're nuts).

...or if you go from MM FO to BB BO and capitalize on the fact that they'll pay for masters degree / law school at night and save yourself a small fortune while getting paid :) ...that's one of the angles I'm working on at least.

I just had my first UFO experience.

I called my wife fat while we were making dinner.

Flying saucers everywhere XD

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In reply to UFOinsider
rothyman's picture

UFOinsider wrote: rothyman

rothyman
      HF
 
 
(King Kong, 1,163
 
Points)
 on 12/7/11 at 11:46am
UFOinsider:
rothyman:

Once you work FO, I don't think you every really go back to working below that (unless you're nuts).

...or if you go from MM FO to BB BO and capitalize on the fact that they'll pay for masters degree / law school at night and save yourself a small fortune while getting paid :) ...that's one of the angles I'm working on at least.

Genius. :)

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In reply to rothyman
TheKid1's picture

rothyman wrote: UFOinsider

TheKid1
      IB
 
(Senior Gorilla, 897
 
Points)
 on 12/7/11 at 11:55am
rothyman:
UFOinsider:
rothyman:

Once you work FO, I don't think you every really go back to working below that (unless you're nuts).

...or if you go from MM FO to BB BO and capitalize on the fact that they'll pay for masters degree / law school at night and save yourself a small fortune while getting paid :) ...that's one of the angles I'm working on at least.

Genius. :)

UFO, I always thought you did Ibanking and moved in to P.E? Ur currently working at MM IB FO role and want to swtich to BB B.O so they wold pay for ur law school? I thought u started out B.O and moved to F.O..

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TheKid1's picture

Also to the O.P, B.O jobs are

TheKid1
      IB
 
(Senior Gorilla, 897
 
Points)
 on 12/7/11 at 12:00pm

Also to the O.P, B.O jobs are hard to come by...I go to a non-target and my school places very well in B.O and M.O and only three banks, UBS, MS AND JPM recruited for B.O...MS upstate NY and UBS AND JPM in NYC.. Didn't hear back from anyone...

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In reply to rothyman
UFOinsider's picture

rothyman wrote: UFOinsider

UFOinsider
      O
 
(Human, 10,466
 
Points)
 on 12/7/11 at 12:04pm
rothyman:
UFOinsider:
rothyman:

Once you work FO, I don't think you every really go back to working below that (unless you're nuts).

...or if you go from MM FO to BB BO and capitalize on the fact that they'll pay for masters degree / law school at night and save yourself a small fortune while getting paid :) ...that's one of the angles I'm working on at least.

Genius. :)

You guys hiring?

For real: I'm looking for a two - five year committment and grad school covered. You'll get every penny's worth out of me as far as work ethic goes.

Only thing keeping me where I am is reading about a thousand people laid off from the bigger firms every week or so...

I just had my first UFO experience.

I called my wife fat while we were making dinner.

Flying saucers everywhere XD

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In reply to TheKid1
UFOinsider's picture

TheKid1 wrote: rothyman

UFOinsider
      O
 
(Human, 10,466
 
Points)
 on 12/7/11 at 12:16pm
TheKid1:
rothyman:
UFOinsider:
rothyman:

Once you work FO, I don't think you every really go back to working below that (unless you're nuts).

...or if you go from MM FO to BB BO and capitalize on the fact that they'll pay for masters degree / law school at night and save yourself a small fortune while getting paid :) ...that's one of the angles I'm working on at least.

Genius. :)

UFO, I always thought you did Ibanking and moved in to P.E? Ur currently working at MM IB FO role and want to swtich to BB B.O so they wold pay for ur law school? I thought u started out B.O and moved to F.O..

I'm MM AM and would go to a BB's back office if they paid for law school / masters. My firm covers 50% but I want to go to NYU / Columbia and they are expensive: I'm not working my balls off for the next 3-5 years while paying for education, I did that in college, fuck that. If a firm doesn't pick up the tab, then I'll go full time and take out loans. Working full time and paying for my own part time degree is not worth it in my case as I'm trying to either A) establish myself in a large company or B) use grad school to reset the recruiting options. My current job is a stepping stone and I'll have moved on within a year or so

My options as I see it are:
Part time at night with 100% paid for by employer OR
Full time and I borrow money to pay for it

Long story short (and I'm truly sorry that I'm thread jacking) is that my two years are up in a month and I'm putting my soul back on the auction block. Who wants a piece of the action?

I just had my first UFO experience.

I called my wife fat while we were making dinner.

Flying saucers everywhere XD

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Flake's picture

Man carefully research that

Flake
      ER
 
(Neanderthal, 3,667
 
Points)
 on 12/7/11 at 12:48pm

Man carefully research that shit before doing this whole school thing. Who knows what kind of clauses they have to retain you and make sure people don't try to do what you think is so easy to do. You will either be stuck there or you will be put on some kind of a vesting schedule and be forced to pay back some of that tuition.

Under my tutelage, you will grow from boys to men. From men into gladiators. And from gladiators into SWANSONS.

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In reply to rothyman
exhausted's picture

rothyman wrote: You talk

exhausted
     
 
(Chimp, 4
 
Points)
 on 12/7/11 at 1:19pm
rothyman:

You talk about trade settlements as if it is a major part of BO jobs @ BBs, while actually it is only a small part of the BO/MO. There are a plethora of compliance, paper pushers, and adminstrative related jobs that all fall into BO. From what I have seen, it is extremely hard to get a BO job that involves being on the trading floor if you are entry level (such as trade support/trade settlement). And yes, HF hire trade support guys but they usually prefer at least 1 year of experience @ a BB on the trading floor. The alternative is knowing somebody @ a HF.

Interesting. Do hedge funds also hire for the "plethora of compliance, paper pushers, and adminstrative related jobs that all fall into BO"?

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In reply to Flake
UFOinsider's picture

Flake wrote: Man carefully

UFOinsider
      O
 
(Human, 10,466
 
Points)
 on 12/7/11 at 1:25pm
Flake:

Man carefully research that shit before doing this whole school thing. Who knows what kind of clauses they have to retain you and make sure people don't try to do what you think is so easy to do. You will either be stuck there or you will be put on some kind of a vesting schedule and be forced to pay back some of that tuition.

shit, good call

I just had my first UFO experience.

I called my wife fat while we were making dinner.

Flying saucers everywhere XD

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In reply to UFOinsider
Flake's picture

UFOinsider wrote: Flake

Flake
      ER
 
(Neanderthal, 3,667
 
Points)
 on 12/7/11 at 1:57pm
UFOinsider:
Flake:

Man carefully research that shit before doing this whole school thing. Who knows what kind of clauses they have to retain you and make sure people don't try to do what you think is so easy to do. You will either be stuck there or you will be put on some kind of a vesting schedule and be forced to pay back some of that tuition.

shit, good call

There will be a prenup.

Under my tutelage, you will grow from boys to men. From men into gladiators. And from gladiators into SWANSONS.

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TheKid1's picture

UFO, I am a senior in

TheKid1
      IB
 
(Senior Gorilla, 897
 
Points)
 on 12/7/11 at 2:25pm

UFO, I am a senior in college, but I have heard that most companies that pay for your tuition will require you too say for a few years before you could leave or you would have to pay it back. If your looking to get back in recruiting from NYU or Columbia, i would go full time and take the loans. I am pretty sure if you decide to go into banking or consulting you will make enough money to pay your loans back in no time..

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In reply to TheKid1
UFOinsider's picture

TheKid1 wrote: UFO, I am a

UFOinsider
      O
 
(Human, 10,466
 
Points)
 on 12/7/11 at 2:31pm
TheKid1:

UFO, I am a senior in college, but I have heard that most companies that pay for your tuition will require you too say for a few years before you could leave or you would have to pay it back. If your looking to get back in recruiting from NYU or Columbia, i would go full time and take the loans. I am pretty sure if you decide to go into banking or consulting you will make enough money to pay your loans back in no time..

Definitely. I guess I'm just go through every option with a fine tooth comb.

Back to the original conversation: hiring in BO / MO

Hiring is mostly over for this year and there were slim pickings. One of the newbies where I work came from a BB BO contract position and he really isn't a very impressive candidate. Try for a temp position and work your butt off, and it's likely they'll keep you around...then start networking and go for the jump to FO if that's your goal.

I just had my first UFO experience.

I called my wife fat while we were making dinner.

Flying saucers everywhere XD

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Bondarb's picture

Back-office jobs are very

Bondarb
      HF
 
 
(Neanderthal, 2,359
 
Points)
 on 12/7/11 at 6:06pm

Back-office jobs are very hard to get right now, just like all other finance jobs. Firms that are firing massively in the front office generally dont go on back-office hiring sprees. Also, benefits such as education payment become much more difficult in this environment...no firm is going to let you game them by running up a huge education bill and then leaving. I am not sure that ever really was possible but especially not now.

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nonfatlatte's picture

I know one guy moved from BO

nonfatlatte
      ST
 
 
(Baboon, 103
 
Points)
 on 12/7/11 at 6:09pm

I know one guy moved from BO to be a trader and he has been working in the BO for 2-3 years. It is definitively possible. Good luck!

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mojo12's picture

I work in the BO of a BB so

mojo12
      O
 
(Monkey, 31
 
Points)
 on 12/7/11 at 6:31pm
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In reply to exhausted
rothyman's picture

exhausted][quote=rothyman

rothyman
      HF
 
 
(King Kong, 1,163
 
Points)
 on 12/7/11 at 7:49pm
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trailmix8's picture

I would say that it is

trailmix8
      AM
 
 
(Senior Gorilla, 942
 
Points)
 on 12/7/11 at 8:19pm
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In reply to trailmix8
rothyman's picture

trailmix8 wrote: I would say

rothyman
      HF
 
 
(King Kong, 1,163
 
Points)
 on 12/7/11 at 8:25pm
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In reply to rothyman
trailmix8's picture

rothyman wrote: trailmix8

trailmix8
      AM
 
 
(Senior Gorilla, 942
 
Points)
 on 12/7/11 at 9:10pm
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someotherguy's picture

BO is getting outsourced and

someotherguy
      HF
 
(Orangutan, 281
 
Points)
 on 12/7/11 at 9:15pm
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In reply to trailmix8
Flake's picture

trailmix8 wrote: I would say

Flake
      ER
 
(Neanderthal, 3,667
 
Points)
 on 12/7/11 at 11:22pm

Under my tutelage, you will grow from boys to men. From men into gladiators. And from gladiators into SWANSONS.

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exhausted's picture

OP here. Thank you all. This

exhausted
     
 
(Chimp, 4
 
Points)
 on 12/8/11 at 10:13am
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Whgm45's picture

Absolutely difficult to get.

Whgm45
      ST
 
(Orangutan, 308
 
Points)
 on 12/8/11 at 12:01pm
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mojo12's picture

We hire temps from temp

mojo12
      O
 
(Monkey, 31
 
Points)
 on 12/8/11 at 6:15pm
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In reply to rothyman
design's picture

rothyman wrote: Once you work

design
      IB
 
(Gorilla, 671
 
Points)
 on 12/8/11 at 9:33pm
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In reply to design
rothyman's picture

design wrote: rothyman

rothyman
      HF
 
 
(King Kong, 1,163
 
Points)
 on 12/8/11 at 9:58pm
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In reply to design
Bondarb's picture

design wrote: rothyman

Bondarb
      HF
 
 
(Neanderthal, 2,359
 
Points)
 on 12/8/11 at 10:04pm
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The Company reserves the right, at its sole discretion, to pursue all of its legal remedies, including but not limited to immediate termination of your registration with or ability to access the Web Site and/or any other service provided to you by the Company, upon any breach by you of these Terms and Conditions or if the Company is unable to verify or authenticate any information you submit to the Web Site registration with or ability to access the Web Site.

Indemnity.

You agree to defend, indemnify, and hold harmless the Company, its officers, directors, employees and agents, from and against any claims, actions or demands, including without limitation reasonable legal and accounting fees, alleging or resulting from your use of the Material or your breach of the terms of these Terms and Conditions. The Company shall provide notice to you promptly of any such claim, suit, or proceeding and shall assist you, at your expense, in defending any such claim, suit or proceeding.

General.

The Company makes no claims that the Materials may be lawfully viewed or downloaded outside of the United States. Access to the Materials may not be legal by certain persons or in certain countries. If you access the Web Site from outside of the United States, you do so at your own risk and are responsible for compliance with the laws of your jurisdiction. These Terms and conditions are governed by the internal substantive laws of the State of New York, without respect to its conflict of laws principles. Jurisdiction for any claims arising under this agreement shall lie exclusively with the state or federal courts within New York, New York. If any provision of these Terms and Conditions are found to be invalid by any court having competent jurisdiction, the invalidity of such provision shall not affect the validity of the remaining provisions of these Terms and Conditions, which shall remain in full force and effect. No waiver of any term of these Terms and Conditions shall be deemed a further or continuing waiver of such term or any other term. Except as expressly provided in additional terms of use for areas of the Web Site a particular "Legal Notice," or Software License or Material on particular Web pages, these Terms and Conditions constitute the entire agreement between you and the Company with respect to the use of Web Site. No changes to these Terms and Conditions shall be made except by a revised posting on this page.

PRIVACY POLICY

The Company recognizes that you are concerned about privacy. We are committed to preserving your privacy and safeguarding your sensitive information. The following statement describes the general information-gathering and usage practices of our sites.

Our staff, contractors, Internet service providers and others involved in this site follow this policy or similarly strict policies regarding your Information.

Disclosure

The Company is committed to fully disclosing our policies regarding the collection, use, maintenance, disclosure and security of personal information obtained from users of our site. The term "personal information" includes a name, address, email address, or any other information which could be used to contact you directly or to identify you personally.

Use and Disclosure Limitations

The Company only uses personal information about its Web site users for specific purposes. We do not share user information with third parties except when we have told users about the disclosures, when we have prior consent, or when required by law.

Use Policy: When the Company gathers personal information from users, we ask for permission first. We also disclose, at the time of collection, how the information will be used by us. Personal information is used for activities such as auto-completion of commonly-used forms and helping us contact you when you solicit information from us.

Disclosure Policy: We do not normally disclose personal information to anyone outside of the Company unless we have previously informed users about the disclosures. However, some data may be used from time to time by outside contractors, including auditors or consultants, to assist us in carrying out necessary financial or operational activities. These uses will be consistent with this privacy policy and all contractors using this potential personal information must agree to safeguard it, to use it only for the authorized purpose, and to return it or destroy it upon completion of the activity.

The Company might be required to disclose personal information in response to a valid legal process such as a subpoena, search warrant or court order.

Although unlikely, it is possible that we may have to make certain disclosures to ensure the security of our Web site, to protect its integrity, or to take precautions against potential liability. In any of these situations, we will take any reasonable steps to limit the scope of the data disclosed.

Web Logs: The Company maintains standard Web logs that record basic information about visitors to our Web site. These logs contain: * The Internet domain from which you came to our Web site. * Your IP address. An IP address is a series of numbers which uniquely identifies your connection to the Internet. Although it is possible in some instances, certain types of IP addresses may be used by interested persons to identify users but we do not attempt to identify users in this way. * The type of browser (e.g., Internet Explorer or Netscape) and operating system (e.g., Windows 98) you use. * The date and time you visited the site, and the pages you saw.

We use Web log information to design our Web site, identify popular features, and in similar ways. We do not try to identify individuals from Web logs or to link Web logs to other user information. However, if someone tries to damage our Web site or use it in an unauthorized or illegal way, we may share Web log information with law enforcement agencies. The Company may provide aggregate information such as the number of users who visit particular pages of the site, or the number of people who link to certain external sites from our site, to other parties.

Changes to Privacy Policy

The Company's features and services will change over time and our information-gathering practices and policies may also change.

While our philosophy of protecting user information from inappropriate uses and disclosures will not change, this policy will be updated occasionally to include any change that materially affects the collection, maintenance, use, or disclosure of personal information.

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  • <object type='application/x-shockwave-flash' data='http://www.reuters.com/resources_v2/flash/video_embed.swf?videoId=243437843&edition=BETAUS' id='rcomVideo_243437843' width='460' height='259'> <param name='movie'...
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  • Hey guys, I was wondering if anybody has taken all three of these exams. If so, is there any overlapping in the study material? I would like to take Level 1 of the CFA as well as Level 1 of the CAIA next year but I think the only way to manage all that would be if they both cover some of...
    CFA, CAIA, FRM?
  • So all new users to WSO get 6 free financial modeling lessons, 5 of my best tips for networking and my best tips for interviewing over the first month of being a user. Tonght I got a response from one of my networking tips e-mails from a slightly older gentleman that is a "financial...
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  • Hey guys, I appreciate all critiques. I just finished my undergrad and looking for an entry-level analyst position. Having a little bit of difficulty so I thought maybe a resume review would help me out. Any other suggestions regarding career options fitting my credentials would be great....
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<em>Mod note: make sure to see the great comment below by CompBanker</em> I come from a small town where nobody had ever heard of consulting or IB. I was fortunate enough to attend a top target college (a good Ivy) and land a gig in IB at a BB/EB. I'm starting full time this...
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<strong>Background</strong> I randomly discovered WSO nearly seven years ago just weeks after I secured a FT MM IB position. The website was extremely nascent at the time with only a few thousand registered users. The majority of the users were college students with only a handful...
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<em>Mod note: <strong><a href="http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/faq/what-are-the-best-qa-threads-and-interviews-with-top-finance-professionals-on-wso ">Click here</a></strong> to see all of our q&a's and interviews</em><P> I figured I...
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Fellow Primates, We are looking for 1-2 students on each campus to help WSO in its sales efforts to student clubs/career centers, and overall promotion at your school both online and on the ground. Below is a description of the position and benefits...thanks in advance for your help! <a...
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Any Asset Management people here who could give me some insights on it, such as the nature of the work, the pay, the hours, the potential for career advancement, ect? I was looking into IB before but I've decided that I would rather pursue a career that's more intellectually...
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<img src="//img.pandawhale.com/48721-Sexually-Oblivious-Female-Meme-Ze2w.png" alt="Sexually Oblivious Female Meme - Favorite Position? I would like to be a CEO.">
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