M&A lawyer --> Associate in M&A advisory at IB?
Dear all,
Hi. I am new here. Thanks for having me. Forgive me if this sort of question is common around here:
I am a junior M&A associate lawyer in a decent M&A practice in New York. T10 law school, engineering degree as an undergrad (i.e., good with spreadsheets), okay grades, 26 years old.
Were I to attempt a transition into an IB as an associate in a M&A advisory practice:
1. Any headhunter recommendations so I can learn more about what I need to do to become a worthwhile candidate (I realize I am not a usual candidate) and find out what, if anything is available now and whether I'd be a better candidate if I do X for the next year or two (or when the economy picks up, etc.)?
2. For the few JDs who move into IB, any idea what an IB looks for in those applicants -- general deal knowledge? Financial knowledge picked up along the way? Merely the ability to work 400 hours a month and accept having no non-work life? A combination?
3. Any further advice or leads would be welcome as I learn more about whether this is possible and how to execute such move.
I appreciate any advice as I start gathering information from scratch. Thanks.
I'm in a similar position--28
I'm in a similar position--28 with one year of BigLaw experience in a corporate practice area. Here are my observations and experiences:
1.) In this economy, headhunters are just about useless for cross-industry laterals. None of the ones I've contacted have been willing to give me the time of day or been able to find a suitable opportunity. There are simply too many MBAs and laid-off bankers looking for banking jobs. When going through formal channels, a junior BigLaw associate will be put last in line after all those guys. So, the key is to use informal channels. Network like crazy.
2.) The more junior you are, the more technical ability you'll need to demonstrate. That means: (1) understanding all the stuff the various technical interview guides go over (Vault, WSO, etc.), and (2) being able to explain the business and finance oriented aspects of the legal work you've done. If you can, take a modeling course. Doing that really helped me understand how the ideas and concepts in the guides tie together.
Also, you need to not talk or act like a lawyer (that's to say, don't behave like a social invalid). You don't want to come across as a bookish, unsociable, egomaniacal recluse. They want to see that you're smart, but also comfortable with yourself, friendly, and energetic under stress. Lawyers like to whine about their workloads and make a show of how stressed they are: from what I gather, that is the absolute last thing you want to portray in a banking interview. Lawyers tend to be negative. Avoid that like the plague.
Every single interviewer will ask you why you want to make a move. You'd better have a convincing story. It doesn't need to be complex--just convincing. I find that the tone in which you explain yourself makes as much difference as what you actually say.
On work stamina: one advantage of coming from BigLaw is that no one will question it. In fact, many bankers seem to assume lawyers work a lot harder than them.
3.) Network. Learn the lingo. Then network more. You'll get nowhere by sounding like just another lawyer who dreams about making more money in banking but doesn't even understand the job.
Thank you very much. I
Thank you very much. I appreciate your input. For what it's worth, I agree with your criticisms of corporate law and they are precisely why I am interested in switching.
Best of luck in your search.
At your age, by the time you
At your age, by the time you can make a move and the demand for new employees manages to untangle, you will have to transition at the VP level.
Position your experience well and as someone else said--brush up on the technical aspects. Although at this point, if you're on-track to become partner, idk why you'd jump ship. Good luck
I went to IBD straight out of
I went to IBD straight out of law school. If you are already at a firm, it's very hard to move as a junior just because you have to learn a whole new skill set that traditional junior bankers learned coming out of school and don't offer much else. However if you work your way up at a law firm and get some experience interacting with clients and IB's it's definitely very possible. I highly recommend contacting alumni at your law school who made that similar transition. Just curious, why leave? NALP associates probably make more starting than even starting IBD associates nowadays. And a lot more job security to go around.
dontgotolawschool: I went to
I went to IBD straight out of law school. If you are already at a firm, it's very hard to move as a junior just because you have to learn a whole new skill set that traditional junior bankers learned coming out of school and don't offer much else. However if you work your way up at a law firm and get some experience interacting with clients and IB's it's definitely very possible. I highly recommend contacting alumni at your law school who made that similar transition. Just curious, why leave? NALP associates probably make more starting than even starting IBD associates nowadays. And a lot more job security to go around.
Thanks again for your comments. It was nice to see this thread again two years after I started it and began a search for an IB role, so I thought I'd respond and provide an update. In short, I'm still an M&A associate at my law firm, though now a mid-level associate. I actively pursued the transition in late 2010 and through mid-2011, but having made no meaningful progress, I have sat back since, not certain about next steps.
The couple of alumni from my law school who made such transition (in 2006 or 2007) had already left banking and did not profess to have any remaining pertinent connections. Contacting them and learning how they made their transitions reinforced to me that such transition is possible in a technical sense, but not available to me, at least now (or in 2010-2011, when I last had these conversations). In 2006, a mid-level M&A associate at a top law firm could cold call 10 banks and land 3 interviews. When I tried the same, I secured a few informational interviews with IB recruiting staff where I was told generally that such transition is possible and has happened within recent memory, but that hiring is going to be slow indefinitely and I should "remain in touch", with no further guidance on what they would look for that would actually make me worth interviewing in their view. One trend I noticed in contacting in-house recruiters -- the more senior recruiters at the largest banks were more responsive and more helpful in communicating, I figure because they have seen these transitions during their career and because a larger bank can blend in bankers with different backgrounds more easily than a boutique with a small class, who needs bankers who are ready for all assignments from Day 1.
I have had the chance to work fairly closely with bankers on several deals since I first posted, but they generally fall neatly into two categories. Analysts and junior associates at banks are too junior to be helpful in either learning about openings or to even comprehend how a lawyer could transition into banking. Having followed regimented paths studying business at Ivy League schools together with their colleagues, in their eyes, I might as well be asking how I can lateral from M&A lawyer to brain surgeon. In any event, they generally leave their banks quickly for the next opportunity. VPs and more senior bankers have been around enough to see lawyers and other professionals transition into banking through non-conventional backgrounds (and might have even done so themselves), but they are both too senior for me to really get close enough to start this conversation, and worse, they are likely close enough to the partners at my firm that I would not be comfortable divulging this idea to them. I believe the best I can do at the moment is to be ready when the right IB contact comes along on one of my deals or through other channels.
Networking is difficult in practice and I understand that I need to get better at it, and by "networking", I mean remaining in meaningful contact with one's existing network and the contacts you meet on a deal, rather than attending "networking events" where you meet a general variety of people who like networking events (heavy on real estate agents and financial advisors), which might be a pleasant evening or good for general purposes, but will not help one land an IB job. M&A associates do not have schedules conducive to maintaining any plans but late or last-minute plans, and there will be weeks or even months at a time when you're just not going to be free at all. M&A lawyers work with bankers closely right until signing a deal, but it is too easy for the connection to gradually get lost when lawyers immediately ramp up for closing the transaction while the banker moves on to other assignments. I realize though that it seems far more likely that any breakthrough in this transition would need to come from a personal contact rather than cold-calling a bank along with 1000 other people looking to break in somehow.
The reason an M&A lawyer would be interested in pursuing a transition to banking is simply to switch to a position that seems (at least from the outside looking in) to be more interesting and with higher upside, understanding that it is a less stable and secure position.