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Prospects of Being Hired at a Top Prop Firm
 

wsouser11235's picture
(Chimp, 2
 
Points)
 on 1/11/12 at 10:16pm

Hi, what are the chances of being hired by a top proprietary trading firm such as JSC if you are a graduate of a non Ivy League (or Ivy League comparable) university with a strong business school (ex. UC Berkeley, UCLA, UT Austin, CMU) and have a good GPA (>3.5)? To clarify, will any of the top firms even consider an application from graduates of these universities? If they do, what are top firms most interested in (ex. activites, internships, GPA, etc...)?

Jerome Marrow's picture

It is incredibly difficult to

O
(Gorilla, 737
 
Points)
 on 1/11/12 at 10:49pm

It is incredibly difficult to get interviews at most firms if you do not go to a school that is targeted. Business school wouldn't really matter. The non-Ivy schools that would be considered targets for prop trading firms would be:

-MIT
-UChicago
-Stanford
-NYU
-all the schools around Chicago (UIUC, UW-Madison, ND)
-CMU

I've met one or two people from other schools you've mentioned, but it is the exception rather than the norm, mostly because the number of people hired each year is relatively low compared to other professions and there are many people at these other schools that are also interested. Find an alum and try to connect.

protectedclass's picture

very very little chance.

 
Points)
 on 1/11/12 at 10:53pm

very very little chance. they won't even look at non-math/engineering/comp sci majors. Business school means jack shit.

The two superdays I had with top chicago firms in the last 2 months, they were completely populated by harvard/mit/princeton type grads, with a few illinios and CMU people in there, and I was the lone one from my university(BS/MS EE). Everyone have either a engineering/applied math/financial math/computer science degree.

Pike's picture

Agree with above to a degree.

IB
 
Points)
 on 1/12/12 at 12:12am

Agree with above to a degree. I don't know much about it but have a friend from Emory who is at a top firm in NY and he was an econ major. Nothing is impossible

Good is the enemy of Great

joe_monkey's picture

Why would the quality of a

CO
(Baboon, 117
 
Points)
 on 1/12/12 at 2:31am

Why would the quality of a university's business school matter? Skills developed in business school really have very little to do with quantitative trading.

Off the top of my head, Jane Street, IMC, Two Sigma, and D. E. Shaw (the latter two are hedge funds, but whatever) all recruit at Berkeley. Jim Simons has a doctorate from Berkeley, but I haven't seen any RenTech stuff around campus.

Don't believe everything you think.

joe_monkey's picture

Also, if you're not smart

CO
(Baboon, 117
 
Points)
 on 1/12/12 at 4:01am

Also, if you're not smart enough to pull a 3.9+ in STEM at any of the schools you listed, chances are you're not smart enough to land a job at a top prop shop.

Don't believe everything you think.

numm's picture

Take these advices with a

ST
(Baboon, 146
 
Points)
 on 1/12/12 at 12:17pm

Take these advices with a grain of salt.

I've interviewed with JSC with a 3.3ish GPA in a school not known for its engineering school. I also know people that majored in Business or Econ that got into top options market making companies, because you don't necessarily have to be "quanty" to do well in options MM.

It is going to be extremely competitive that plenty of smart people from all top schools get rejected, but I wouldn't say that attending one of those four schools will bar you from having a chance. What's the point of asking this question anyway? It's not like you're not going to apply if people here tell you that you don't have a shot.

In reply to Jerome Marrow
Bernankey's picture

Jerome Marrow wrote: It is

ST
(Gorilla, 613
 
Points)
 on 1/12/12 at 12:53pm
Jerome Marrow:

It is incredibly difficult to get interviews at most firms if you do not go to a school that is targeted. Business school wouldn't really matter. The non-Ivy schools that would be considered targets for prop trading firms would be:

-MIT
-UChicago
-Stanford
-NYU
-all the schools around Chicago (UIUC, UW-Madison, ND)
-CMU

I've met one or two people from other schools you've mentioned, but it is the exception rather than the norm, mostly because the number of people hired each year is relatively low compared to other professions and there are many people at these other schools that are also interested. Find an alum and try to connect.

I'd add michigan and johns hopkins to that list

futuretrader1999's picture

Big grain of SALT non-target

ST
 
Points)
 on 1/12/12 at 10:03pm

Big grain of SALT

non-target with sub 3.5 (although interned in sales & trading with a bank)

interviews with 6 of the 10 best prop shops (no JSC though)

personally dont find getting an interview that hard, i find their interview processes so ridiculously more difficult than
banks ( for example, with one had like 3 phone interviews and 2 take home exams that were seriously difficult (tough options theory and greeks questions until finally getting to the final round in-person interview)

oh and i dont go to any of the schools listed above me

granted i am generally the exception at interviews

IVY for Life

protectedclass's picture

Your sig says Ivy for life

 
Points)
 on 1/12/12 at 10:15pm

Your sig says Ivy for life and your school says NYU, which is distinctly listed in the target range.

Basically, if you are a really good test taker in terms of fast math calculations and inductive reasoning skills, you should be able to land an interview at IMC, Tibra, or Optiver. Those type of people are usually in the STEM majors anyway. Which is why I would say, you being a member of a non-target, non-STEM degree, probably won't get through the first interview process, not saying it is impossible, but realistically.

I had a 3.3 undergrad GPA and got interviews(and superdays) at everyone that was doing OCR at my non-target school. Cold applications, I only got Tibra, Optiver, and Two-Sigma(hedge fund) to give me a chance. I ended up with an offer from a lower tier shop(salaried, but not 80K+ like the others), but it should give me a good chance to prove myself because I was not a traditional student.

In reply to Bernankey
Jerome Marrow's picture

Bernankey wrote: Jerome

O
(Gorilla, 737
 
Points)
 on 1/12/12 at 11:37pm
Bernankey:
Jerome Marrow:

It is incredibly difficult to get interviews at most firms if you do not go to a school that is targeted. Business school wouldn't really matter. The non-Ivy schools that would be considered targets for prop trading firms would be:

-MIT
-UChicago
-Stanford
-NYU
-all the schools around Chicago (UIUC, UW-Madison, ND)
-CMU

I've met one or two people from other schools you've mentioned, but it is the exception rather than the norm, mostly because the number of people hired each year is relatively low compared to other professions and there are many people at these other schools that are also interested. Find an alum and try to connect.

I'd add michigan and johns hopkins to that list

Yeah, forgot to include Michigan with the Chicago area schools. They land a decent number at some places.

I've never met a John Hopkins alum anywhere, but who knows.

In reply to protectedclass
Jerome Marrow's picture

protectedclass wrote: Your

O
(Gorilla, 737
 
Points)
 on 1/12/12 at 11:39pm
protectedclass:

Your sig says Ivy for life and your school says NYU, which is distinctly listed in the target range.

Basically, if you are a really good test taker in terms of fast math calculations and inductive reasoning skills, you should be able to land an interview at IMC, Tibra, or Optiver. Those type of people are usually in the STEM majors anyway. Which is why I would say, you being a member of a non-target, non-STEM degree, probably won't get through the first interview process, not saying it is impossible, but realistically.

I had a 3.3 undergrad GPA and got interviews(and superdays) at everyone that was doing OCR at my non-target school. Cold applications, I only got Tibra, Optiver, and Two-Sigma(hedge fund) to give me a chance. I ended up with an offer from a lower tier shop(salaried, but not 80K+ like the others), but it should give me a good chance to prove myself because I was not a traditional student.

Do you work for BT?

In reply to futuretrader1999
Bernankey's picture

futuretrader1999 wrote: Big

ST
(Gorilla, 613
 
Points)
 on 1/12/12 at 11:54pm
futuretrader1999:

Big grain of SALT

non-target with sub 3.5 (although interned in sales & trading with a bank)

interviews with 6 of the 10 best prop shops (no JSC though)

personally dont find getting an interview that hard, i find their interview processes so ridiculously more difficult than
banks ( for example, with one had like 3 phone interviews and 2 take home exams that were seriously difficult (tough options theory and greeks questions until finally getting to the final round in-person interview)

oh and i dont go to any of the schools listed above me

granted i am generally the exception at interviews

Why even post this garbage? Looking at your history..you're a senior at Stern majoring in finance who did his summer internship with jeffries...but didnt get a return offer

Jerome Marrow's picture

I love the kids that say it

O
(Gorilla, 737
 
Points)
 on 1/13/12 at 8:29pm

I love the kids that say it isn't hard to get interviews with these firms....

I went to a top target for trading that has dozens of people in each of the top trading firms (founders of multiple trading firms and hedge funds that are well known). I couldn't count how many people I knew either personally or in various classes or through friends got only a couple interviews despite having superb GPAs in quantitative majors (ie >3.6 in math/stat/physics/comp sci, intern experience at Google or other tech start-up or bank, etc.) and having good internship experience. It simply isn't that easy and, even if you get a first round, if they somehow mistakenly gave you a shot, you will without a doubt fuck it up if you are not qualified because most firms seem to be able to sift through the bullshit fairly quickly.

In reply to Jerome Marrow
Brady4MVP's picture

Jerome Marrow wrote: I love

HF
(Neanderthal, 3,161
 
Points)
 on 1/13/12 at 8:39pm
Jerome Marrow:

I love the kids that say it isn't hard to get interviews with these firms....

I went to a top target for trading that has dozens of people in each of the top trading firms (founders of multiple trading firms and hedge funds that are well known). I couldn't count how many people I knew either personally or in various classes or through friends got only a couple interviews despite having superb GPAs in quantitative majors (ie >3.6 in math/stat/physics/comp sci, intern experience at Google or other tech start-up or bank, etc.) and having good internship experience. It simply isn't that easy and, even if you get a first round, if they somehow mistakenly gave you a shot, you will without a doubt fuck it up if you are not qualified because most firms seem to be able to sift through the bullshit fairly quickly.

Wow. I didn't know just getting interviews at top prop shops are that difficult.

In your opinion, which prop firms have the toughest interviews?

Jerome Marrow's picture

JSC is known to be absurd....

O
(Gorilla, 737
 
Points)
 on 1/13/12 at 8:54pm

JSC is known to be absurd.... Very very picky and they are able to be for a variety of reasons.

Optiver's test can be difficult if you aren't quick with mental math. The people I have met the work there or used to work there are certainly smart, but not apparently any different from the numerous other trading firms. They manage their traders and the risk of their groups much differently than many other prop firms involved in the same space (ie DRW/CTC/Ronin/Wolverine), so that can lead to different people/personalities working there.

Jump's interview is not easy. Not sure what else to say here, but if you somehow get an interview and you aren't terrific with math and basic programming, you have little chance of making it past this stage. It doesn't matter really what your GPA is and it won't be helping you in the interview.

Can't comment on many others, but they all have a lot of similarities. Remember, even these lesser known firms are owned and operated by people who went to top schools and have tens of millions (if not hundreds of millions) of dollars in their bank account from actually performing with their own capital and having their bank accounts on the line in both their own trading activities and those activities of the people they hire.

Also remember that trading, in general, is more forgiving of atypical candidates unlike banking and whatnot. So sure, you may hear of a person who had a 3.3 that got an interview or perhaps even a job, but that says little about the person's IQ or problem solving abilities, which are generally tested in interviews.

In reply to Jerome Marrow
numm's picture

Jerome Marrow wrote: I love

ST
(Baboon, 146
 
Points)
 on 1/18/12 at 11:22am
protectedclass's picture

The OP used the term "hired"

 
Points)
 on 1/18/12 at 12:42pm
numm's picture

That's exactly what I mean,

ST
(Baboon, 146
 
Points)
 on 1/18/12 at 1:23pm
caveatlector's picture

Try to focus on firms that

(Chimp, 9
 
Points)
 on 1/18/12 at 3:48pm

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