Hi Monkeys!
I will be applying to MBA programs this fall and welcome any feedback on my chances for acceptance. I have been a long time reader on the site, and I look forward to participating in the community! Here’s my profile:
Nontraditional background: professional musician
Undergrad in music at the top ranked program in my field (though not prestigious at all academically); full scholarship
GPA: 3.8/4.0
I am 31 years old and have become jaded with the music business and the entertainment field in general where there is absolutely no correlation between hard work and success. I have always had a passion for investing, and about a year ago the wheels began turning in my head to pursue a career change. I decided to enroll in the CFA program, and I passed level 1 last December and level 2 this past June. I am currently a level 3 candidate enrolled for the June 2014 exam. I have also taken over 10 MOOCs (massive open online classes) in finance, statistics, economics, and business in the last year and received certificates for all those classes. I am interested in Asset Management and equity research, but I have no professional finance experience whatsoever.
Work Experience:
Manager of a large music school for 4 years
Sole proprietor: I have run my own music teaching studio for several years
Educator: I have taught at several community music schools and public/private high schools
Performer: I have performed around the country with recognizable names in music
EC: numerous charitable concerts; participation in a volunteer music education program that is sponsored by a prominent music corporation
GMAT: 740 – 50 Q, 41 V, 8 IR, 6 AWA
Schools I am interested in, in order of dreamer to realist:
Wharton
CBS
Booth
Tuck
NYU
UCLA
WUSTL
I have taken the GMAT only one time and am contemplating the benefit of taking it again. I scored 770-780 on my practice exams, with my highest being a 51Q 45V. I know that 740 is a good score, but do you think that a 770/780 would help offset my weaknesses as a career changer and incrementally improve my chances of acceptance compared to a 740? Any advice is appreciated – thanks!
You have elite stats, I'd put my name in Stanford's hat if I were holding your resume.
Don't think a higher GMAT would realistically change much. IMO, it's pretty hard to predict where you slot in terms of the MBA schools. I'm sure you have loads to write about in the essays, so just apply to the schools you really want to go to and see what happens!
Wow, thanks for the vote of confidence! I figured my age, my lack of finance experience, and my fine arts background would be three strikes and out for the likes of H/S/W.
What I really like about your story is that while being a professional musician you manage to show a strong and very real, rather than superficial, interest, determination and achievement in studying business/finance: two levels of CFA, 740 GMAT, 10 relevant MOOCs. Impressive, in my opinion. From this information seems like with good essays you can go a long way.
Thanks for your feedback! I decided to pursue the CFA for 3 reasons: to gain knowledge, to benefit my future career, and to prove to myself and others that I am dedicated to this career change. I am glad that it comes across - thanks for the kind words!
I think there was actually someone else on this forum not too long ago, who also came from a Music background. Maybe you can search for it and see if there is any helpful info on that thread as well.
As for the rest, go for it you have the stats and the story. Maybe you wanna hire a consultant though?
Yes, I remember the other post not too long ago. He was looking to use an MBA to start his own record label and further his music career, whereas I am looking to completely change careers out of music. My concern is getting accepted as someone interested in AM and ER but with all my professional experience in a completely unrelated field.
I would love to hire a consultant, but unfortunately it's not in the budget - I am a musician here! Thanks for your input though. Everyone has been so positive!
You're sitting pretty good with a 740, man. I would focus on essays and apply in R1.
How did you like the MOOC courses? I just signed up for a couple. Do you get a grade, or is it just a certificate showing you passed/completed the course?
I liked the MOOC courses a lot. As far as grades and certificates go, every class is different. Most of the classes I have taken have been on Coursera, where your grade for the class is shown in your course records online, and you are issued a pdf certificate that does not show a grade (just pass/completion). Some classes do not issue certificates (e.g. any class affiliated with Princeton does not issue a certificate), and one class that I am finishing up now (Competitive Strategy on Coursera) states that there will be a grade on the certificate itself. The quality of instruction has been very high in all of the classes that I have taken - highly recommended!
Good to hear you enjoyed them. I'm also going to be using Coursera. I agree with most folks commenting - it sounds like you have a pretty interesting story to tell. Your stats obviously show you've got the brains to do well, and your CFA progress and classes you've done show genuine interest, dedication, conviction... shoot for the top.
Yeah, no worries, I hope you make it :)
Nonsense. You have killer stats and a more interesting background than 90% of applicants out there.
My advice would be to over-apply though to tons of schools. Your acceptances will probably be really random and more unpredictable than most, but you have a hell of a shot at the top.
Thanks for the positive encouragement - your advice is much appreciated!
You should honestly get some feedback from Sandy at P&Q. I imagine he'll find your profile pretty interesting.
Why no Harvard/Stanford? I know you're old, but you're the type of "interesting" applicant that might get a shot at 31/32.
http://poetsandquants.com/2013/08/02/what-are-your-chances-of-getting-i…
Thanks, I will definitely get some feedback at P&Q. Looks like the consensus is that I may have underestimated my chances due to self-perceived weaknesses in my profile. At this point I am planning on Round 1 applications to H/S/W, CBS, Booth, and Tuck. I'll save the others for later rounds if necessary. Thanks!
I would definitely put Harvard on your list. They are definitely going hard after the bizarre candidates.
I would recommend getting a professional MBA application consultant. The only way you break into high finance is through an MBA so it's going to be very important to get into a top program. Spare no expense.
I do not recommend applying to six schools in R1. You'll likely end up with six half-assed applications.
I totally agree, Sandy's your man for this job and he'll give you a brutally honest answer for everything.
You have a good shot if your GMAT scores pan out. The top B-schools love taking candidates from a non-traditional background. There was a guy in my class who was a music producer.
Dude, Ad Coms love people like you. You not only have the interesting background, but have managed to compile some elite stats, can genuinely justify a career switch and interest/passion in Finance, and can also demonstrate an aptitude for it. I'd start with H/S/W and then go down the rest of your list. Of course there are no guarantees but your background, story, and stats are what I like to call the Triple Crown...they will merit you some serious looks and interviews, assuming your essays aren't calamitous. It'll really be yours to lose.
Great - thanks for the positive feedback!
"where there is absolutely no correlation between hard work and success" - I would be careful if this is something that truly bothers you about the music industry. I work in IM and within the industry there is loose correlation between hard work and success. You may be able to work hard as a sell-side analyst and/or junior researcher and attain a certain level of success, but if you aspire to be an investor, the correlation tends to taper off as success is more driven by innate abilities and your intellect.
I should rephrase my initial comment to say that there is no correlation between success and talent/ability in music. That probably better describes what bothers me about the music business. I understand that even in finance there can be a disconnect between hard work and success - someone who works hard but isn't very talented may not be very successful. However, I do get the impression that in finance, the most talented individuals with the greatest abilities are among the most successful, something that is not true in the entertainment business.
Interesting profile, but I would make sure that the goals of asset management/ER were feasible given your VERY non traditional background.
Off topic, but since you've worked in the industry, do you think the internet has "democratized" music? Or is the industry really in freefall?
I ask because I don't think I have seen a single article/source that wasn't ridiculously biased.
Yes, my career is doing a 180 so it may not resonate with everyone. My plan for the next year is to get into an MBA program, pass CFA level 3, and try to get a pre-MBA summer internship, even if it is unpaid. Then with a mid-MBA internship added, hopefully my goals of breaking into AM/ER are feasible, even if they are admittedly ambitious.
As to your question regarding the music industry, I think the reality is a little bit of both. The internet has democratized music in how it has allowed independent artists to get their music out to the public much easier. The downside of this is that it has put a squeeze on record labels to the point where they are unwilling to take any chances, which has led to over-commercialized, formula-driven music shoved down the consumers' throats. Yet the record labels are still very powerful in the industry, so it's really not feasible yet to achieve mainstream success without them. On top of that, I know many musicians with major record label deals who are struggling because the label is unwilling or, more likely, unable to do proper promotion and distribution. The industry is definitely going through an identity crisis.
I was actually implying that I'm not sure about MBAs being hired for ER or for PE without prior exp in PE. I don't work in the field though, so I hope you get more responses here. But for a general 180 in your career, MBA is the best bet, of course.
Also another question, do you think it would ever become possible to make it big through the internet? Hard to imagine the next Rolling Stones getting there through Facebook likes, especially with a million people trying to do the same...
If I were an MBA-admission officer I'd love a story like that. True, your drawback is that you don't have any real business experience but you're definitely intelligent enough (as evidenced by your GMAT and CFA levels) and have the passion/motivation. Maybe doing a second GMAT really isnt such a bad idea. A GMAT of 740 is very, very good. A GMAT of 780 is fucking brilliant. An MIT professor once told me that admission officers have a hard time not accepting anyone who scores in that 770 - 800 range.
Tristan, thanks for your input. I have read that MIT, Columbia, and Wharton may give more weight to a 770 versus a 740, but that for Harvard and Stanford it is unlikely to make much difference. The thing that seems silly to me is that I would be doing it a second time really just to raise my verbal score from a 41 to a 45. Seems like a waste, but the difference it could make to adcoms is definitely hard to quantify. I think I will work on my essays first and decide on the GMAT later.
Your quant score is wonderful. Don't worry one bit about taking it again.
Visit the schools. Present yourself, especially at Tuck. See how you fit there. You are unusual, but you seem to have found focus. Look through LinkedIn for people who may have graduated from your music school to see if anyone has gone to your target schools and email them. Research. Show you are as serious about the MBA application process as you have been about turning yourself into a fundamental finance guy.
PM me if you have any other questions -- the monkeys on this forum know I help where I can.
Betsy
Thanks for the insights Betsy! I sent you a PM with some of my specifics and some additional questions. Thanks!
Betsy's advice is why I recommend getting a professional MBA admissions advisor. It'll cost you some money, but there are all kinds of things here that Betsy has said that are not necessarily intuitive. I don't think you'll regret spending the money.
I totally promise I have no idea who DCDepository is! But thank you. And didn't give him free silver bananas. Really! Also, as many of you know, like TNA for MSF programs, I do what I can via my Q&A thread and I'll answer some quickie PMs too. If you have tactical questions, those are easier -- strategy is often more complex.
PS: Just got off the phone with my sister, who has taken some Coursera courses. I think in the case of the OP, who has very strong quant and Levels 1&2 of the CFA, the fact that he has taken the courses is helpful. But it is icing on the cake. If he didn't have the quant score or the CFA, 's these courses would probably not convince an admissions committee that the candidate is ready to take on the rigor of a business school program. And I think that they need to be both comforted and convinced that the OP would be able to stand shoulder to shoulder in the core curriculum with people who come from finance or the hard sciences or who have taken a bunch of math courses.
Betsy, would taking similar finance or economics courses at ones local college (for a grade) help alleviate some of the concerns - as opposed to Coursera courses?
Voluptatem harum rerum quo dolorum autem voluptatibus autem sed. Odit et ab sunt eius aut officiis ipsa fugit. Quae quos non molestias numquam ex provident incidunt. Aut ut deserunt quas. Aliquam qui delectus quis sit ea. Eius accusantium occaecati fugiat velit animi voluptas fugiat. Et quis consequatur esse atque assumenda ipsam.
Atque ipsa incidunt sit temporibus sed maxime. Quia rerum et commodi in architecto ullam. Amet et ea ratione nobis repudiandae voluptas velit. Nihil sit itaque quasi autem id sit.
Ratione sint maxime eligendi qui tempora expedita qui sapiente. Impedit molestiae ut in voluptas natus quae quasi. Recusandae qui fugiat rerum deserunt. Culpa sit et qui. Impedit doloremque impedit velit nisi illum voluptatibus quis.
Sequi dolorem omnis et optio vel et. Aut recusandae quis aliquam nemo totam. Sed quam unde amet ab ut omnis. Et eum praesentium eaque quis sed.
See All Comments - 100% Free
WSO depends on everyone being able to pitch in when they know something. Unlock with your email and get bonus: 6 financial modeling lessons free ($199 value)
or Unlock with your social account...
Eveniet voluptatem ratione facilis qui. Molestiae sed molestiae dolores ad voluptates corrupti dolor. Non minima quis porro tempore sint.
Consectetur eius rerum cupiditate sunt consequatur aut accusantium. Rerum ut illum delectus voluptas. Ipsam ut quibusdam quam aut molestias assumenda aut. A quo iure odit molestiae neque suscipit qui deleniti. Distinctio et consequuntur autem quia in.
Aut autem vitae in beatae qui fugit vel. Velit sed et ad exercitationem. Consequuntur nostrum qui adipisci quos. Ipsam sint omnis nobis.