What is it, exactly, that makes NY and more specifically Manhattan, vote Democratic? A large net worth individual obviously doesn't equal a conservative, but more often than not it does. And with so many rich people...Is it the large art/liberal/minority community in Brooklyn/Bronx/Queens that votes more on social issues? Or are people more libertarians? And vote with democratic candidates, but are fiscal conservatives? Capitalism is what made NYC great, and still does for the most part. Guys dressed as Elmo and the Cookie Monster in Times Sq. are the epitome of capitalists, along with trumpet players in subway. Again, not that a capitalist always equals a conservative...... And it seems Wall St. leans more conservative?? Giuliani seems to be last true R mayor? Staten Island is only somewhat remotely 'red' borough.
I'm trying to be as objective as possible. Not sure if naive or stupid...or both.
NYC is socially liberal, but probably middle of the road when it comes to economics. Bloomberg isn't exactly the ACLU poster child.
IMO, when you are in NYC you benefit from government. People see trains, police, a big urban city. No need for guns, no social stigmas. You rely on government services (taxi cab commission, mass transit, police, etc). So they vote Democrat. I also think the libertarian/small government conservative mentality wouldn't work too well in NYC. That place is a mad house and needs government rule. You go outside the city and government becomes more of a pain in the ass.
Down south, you are on your own more. Hunting and gun ownership is a big thing. It is smaller communities, places where churches are the glue to community. More traditional mindset. Less police, less interaction with the government.
I do find funny how most of NYS is red, except for the city which skews the state. If NY didn't have NYC is would be Alabama.
Great, coherent answer. And to last part, I guess that's why my perception is skewed. Because SO many of neighbors/family and extended family upstate are borderline Tea Partiers.
I do find funny how most of NYS is red, except for the city which skews the state. If NY didn't have NYC is would be Alabama.
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please don't say things like this if you don't actually know anything about the subject http://elections.huffingtonpost.com/2012/results/new-york the thing is, new york city does skew the entire state quite heavily, but new york would have been comfortably democrat even without the help of new york county. other big cities in the state, such as albany (the capital), syracuse, and rochester, are all located within states that are quite heavily blue, so NYS' blue phenomenon is not simply due to NYC pulling along a red state
anyway, i think there's two very simple reasons why new york city is so democrat. the first is because it has a high concentration of minorities. for the past 45 years, the democrats have been the political party more sympathetic to the minority condition, with regards to projects which help the poor, immigration, and many others
the second reason is because NYC is very international and globalized. in a world which is dominated by the american hegemony, it's easy for people living in alabama or tennessee to only see the world through USA centric tinted glasses. the conservative party has always been about a strict military policy, seeing the rest of the world as friend and foe, a very binary division. the democrats on the other hand are much more accepting with regards to this issue, and i think that's why new yorkers, who are naturally quite globalized citizens, prefer this outlook.
of course, i haven't touched on economics and social conditions at all, but i think these are two big ones
please don't say things like this if you don't actually know anything about the subject
http://elections.huffingtonpost.com/2012/results/n...
the thing is, new york city does skew the entire state quite heavily, but new york would have been comfortably democrat even without the help of new york county. other big cities in the state, such as albany (the capital), syracuse, and rochester, are all located within states that are quite heavily blue, so NYS' blue phenomenon is not simply due to NYC pulling along a red state
anyway, i think there's two very simple reasons why new york city is so democrat. the first is because it has a high concentration of minorities. for the past 45 years, the democrats have been the political party more sympathetic to the minority condition, with regards to projects which help the poor, immigration, and many others
the second reason is because NYC is very international and globalized. in a world which is dominated by the american hegemony, it's easy for people living in alabama or tennessee to only see the world through USA centric tinted glasses. the conservative party has always been about a strict military policy, seeing the rest of the world as friend and foe, a very binary division. the democrats on the other hand are much more accepting with regards to this issue, and i think that's why new yorkers, who are naturally quite globalized citizens, prefer this outlook.
of course, i haven't touched on economics and social conditions at all, but i think these are two big ones
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I have to LOL at your username...kinda sets premise/tone for entire response. My spam filter blocks huff post. Not necessarily disagreeing with you...but why not call "much more accepting with regards to this issue" tolerance? I wonder who WSO'ers, who live in NYC, will vote for come mayoral election this fall
please don't say things like this if you don't actually know anything about the subject
http://elections.huffingtonpost.com/2012/results/n...
the thing is, new york city does skew the entire state quite heavily, but new york would have been comfortably democrat even without the help of new york county. other big cities in the state, such as albany (the capital), syracuse, and rochester, are all located within states that are quite heavily blue, so NYS' blue phenomenon is not simply due to NYC pulling along a red state
anyway, i think there's two very simple reasons why new york city is so democrat. the first is because it has a high concentration of minorities. for the past 45 years, the democrats have been the political party more sympathetic to the minority condition, with regards to projects which help the poor, immigration, and many others
the second reason is because NYC is very international and globalized. in a world which is dominated by the american hegemony, it's easy for people living in alabama or tennessee to only see the world through USA centric tinted glasses. the conservative party has always been about a strict military policy, seeing the rest of the world as friend and foe, a very binary division. the democrats on the other hand are much more accepting with regards to this issue, and i think that's why new yorkers, who are naturally quite globalized citizens, prefer this outlook.
of course, i haven't touched on economics and social conditions at all, but i think these are two big ones
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Yeah, I don't know shit about the subject. I just lived, worked, traveled in all those cities you mentioned. NYS has a population of 19MM people. 8MM of them are in NYC.
Thanks for linking to that map. Since you simply looked at the picture, instead of looking at the data I will break it out nicely for you. This is what happens when you do 5 minutes of work on a subject. Please take notes.
Obama Mitt Pro ObamaSuffolk 287,519 243,258 44,261 Nassau 294,661 237,862 56,799 King 580,225 112,957 467,268 Queens 461,391 108,864 352,527 Richmond 75,557 66,916 8,641 New York 486,172 84,810 401,362 Bronx 334,600 26,680 307,920 Westchester 234,778 131,139 103,639 Rockland 63,908 51,978 11,930 Orange 70,742 58,003 12,739
Total 2,889,553 1,122,467 1,767,086
Obama won NYS by 1,986,439 votes. Just about 90% of that victory came from NYC and the surrounding area. You subtract downstate NY from both candidates and the NYS election looks like this:
Obama - 1,582,318 Romney - 1,362,965
This is a 7% margin of victory.
Outside of NYC the whole state is a ghost town. These voting stats also ignore the amount of campaign money raised for Obama in the downstate area.
NYC absolutely pulls NYS Blue.
You get that a lot in large cities. In my opinion you have three types of "blue" people:
1) They feel bad, but they don't think things through. You're living in close quarters with a lot of people, you see the shitty conditions a lot of people live in, and you HAVE to do something about it.
2) Appearance. You're a Democrat so people know that you must care. Image is everything in business.
3) You're a "smart Democrat" (there are "smart Republicans" as well). These are the people that actually know wtf they're talking about and how to make the Democrat Party's ideals work in this country. I may disagree with them ideologically, but I respect the shit out of them.
In NYC, from my limited experience, you get a LOT of #2, a good amount of #1s, and the occasional #3. Most places you see a LOT of #1s, a decent amount of #2s and a rare #3. Big cities tend to attract the #2s IMO.
I'm really talking out of my ass here, so take that for what it's worth. Also, everyone else that responds to this will likely be talking out of their ass.
Respectable answer too. You're spot on with the #3's, if only there were more of both parties. Talking out of my ass is my MO for many situations.
Just try livin' in San Fran. This is my life:
Can you 'feel' it though? Any city can be blue on paper, like NYC, but it doesn't feel overwhelmingly blue. Never been to Cali, but I know SF is hands down most blue/lib...but I wonder how prevalent it is on the streets?
lmao let's just say that while i can't feel it, it feels itself... in public... all the time.
Yeah, I mean in NYC you pay high taxes, but you get something for it. People might dislike NYC, but it is a massive hub of activity with mass transit, relative safety, opportunity, etc. So when you pay your taxes you get something for it and you instantly recognize it. You go down south and you watch your income tax get sucked up to the Federal level, never to be seen again.
And yes, I realize that many Red states are net beneficiaries from the government, but when you don't directly see the tax benefit you don't recognize it.
I will say this though. NYC is great cause it is NYC. Dem, Republican, whatever.
Americans vote based primarily on their social values. Someone in NYC sees how the government helps them (public transportation, the vast amount of homeless, police, etc.), so they vote Democrat. Someone in rural Alabama struggling to get by on $30,000 a year has no logical reason to vote Republican, but does so anyway because he/she is probably a Christian.
I cannot find it now, but there was a thread like this a while back on WSO.
I mean poor southerns voting Republicans is the same as middle class white women voting Democrat because of abortion (which largely impacts poor, inner city minorities).
Cliff Notes: People are dumb.
Those are my exact cliff notes whenever someone tries to find out why I vote the way I do.
Big cities tend to draw in the Yuppies- and NYC is the capital of Yuppiedom. The city is full of young people, who are usually democratic, tend to be those with college degrees, again skewed to the left. Also living in a metropolis setting lets you interact with other types of people you usually would not interact with in the rural areas. Also you tend to be less religious in the cities;. These factors make NYC a huge blue city. (Also the notion of blue states vs red states is a bit skewed. I'm a believer of the "Purple America"- that most of the US is "purple" and really I believe the dynamic is the city vs rural areas not "blue states" vs "red states." In short, virtually all large cities in the US are democratic.
Plain fact is NYC pulls the state blue without a doubt. You get rid of downstate and you go from a 29% margin of victory to a 7%. I didn't even delve into the 3rd party votes.
I do suppose I was unclear with the Alabama comment. I mean NYS would be as rural and backwater.
But back to the topic. Syracuse, Rochester and Albany contribute a small amount to the Dems. Downstate is the driving force. The state is so solidly blue because of this that republicans don't waste their time.
And thanks to the high state income tax NYS has seen a steady outflow of population. Makes no sense to live in the state unless you're in NYC.
pulls the state blue? that's fair is the sole reason NYS isn't jesuswonderland? probably not
you make a good argument though. thanks
I'm not taking out all major cities. Obamas margin shrank to 7% by only removing Downstate. All the other "cities" are counted.
A lot of the conservatives (i.e., the individuals that tend to be wealthy and that work in the city) either live in Nassau County (Long Island) or in NJ and commute to work. NYC is blue for the same reason that practically every major city is blue--a combination of (1) minorities and (2) clueless, elitist aristocrats that believe that they're saving the world, one failed policy at a time.
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