I've been lucky enough to have offers from both of the banks listed above and I was wondering which one would be objectively better for MF recruiting. While I know MS has group placement - due to reasons that I don't want to disclose I have a really good shot at M&A placement. I was wondering if MS M&A was a better choice and if so by how much.
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I think at that point it's just which group you like better culturally, but if you really want to split hairs MS M&A is arguably the best group for MF PE placement so I would say to go there, but GS HC is not going to stop you from any opportunities.
If you look at the H&F website literally 1/2 of the associates are from MS M&A. The placements are insane.
MS M&A gives you more optionality by nature of not being a coverage group. Heard culture is tough at both, but MS marginally better.
Trust me, you don’t want MS M&A.
Group culture is horrible and most people (US / EMEA / APAC) know how crazy their NY lady staffer is. Genuinely a psychopath. Working with her and talking to her is very different.
Anything but that group in MS.
Deleted.
The MFs clearly value the experience being groomed there (possibly by the lady staffer), so there’s the rub.
Care to elaborate on the staffer, seems like the group had some attrition recently
Congratulations on the offers - these are two amazing groups.
Both of them have outstanding reputations. Both of them have excellent exits (as people noted MS M&A might have the edge but it truly is splitting hairs). Both of them have brutal cultures from an hours standpoint (have friends in both and have heard some absolutely crazy stories). M&A at MS will give you a broader experience in terms of more exposure to different sectors. HC at GS won't limit your exits at all but you will of course be working exclusively on HC for two years, which some people like and others don't (that's up to your personal preference). Either way you can't go wrong and ultimately it should come down to "fit" and which one you feel you would "enjoy" more which is a little hard to know at this point
Ignore title I'm in PE now. I think this is a no-brainer. For years MS M&A has been churning out top talents and I've hard that for the past 4 years the group has placed everyone in the first 48 hours of on cycle. The only group I'd consider over MS M&A at GS if I were you would be GS TMT and that's only if you have a tech focus.
Edit: Not sure why the MS. I'm at a firm that is very talked about on this forum and MS M&A is simply viewed as one of our top groups.
A lot of weird people at MS M&A, I would avoid
Can confirm, incoming analyst class include some of the weirdest mfs I know.
Genuine question though, no shade, but how is MS's reputation still on top of the world after slipping in league table in recent years?
Edit: How am I being MS'ed for inaccurate for a question?? Pls
1) Amazing exits 2) Legacy 3) Still work on huge deals 4) had 1-2 off years doesn't make them worse 5) Close pretty big deals so although total deal value isn't super high, the average deal size is quite large compared to a model like EVR where you see a lot of small deals with a big deal sprinkled in here and there
Recent EVR deals:
Chevron/Hess - $60bn
BMS/Mirati - $5.8bn
Westrock/SK - $20bn
Walmart/Vizio - $2.3bn
Synopsys/Ansys - $35bn
GIP/BlackRock - $12.5bn
Chesapeake/SWN - $11.5bn
Swisscom/Vodafone - $8bn
Not sure if EVR is the best example you’re looking for since they’re higher on the US M&A league tables YTD than MS with fewer deals…
MS's is not what it once was. Used to have tons of talent but even M&A isn't comparable the past
could say the same thing about GS...
This is extremely incorrect, you're a sophomore in college and I'm not sure what expertise you're bringing to the table to be making this statement. MS is doing slightly worse than 10-15 years ago, but is still an amazing shop especially the M&A group.
No they’re right. But honestly no bank is close to where they were five years ago from a talent perspective. I’ve been in banking the past seven years, at MS for three. The only M&A bankers I liked working with were the ones that started pre-COVID
.
What..?
Both great shops just go with the team you got along with better during your interviews
What’s comp like at these places?
Talked to a friend at MS M&A about this and he said the MF placements for the most recent classes are just not what they used to be. There's an inevitable 2 year lag in getting this information since people don't update linkedin with their job offers two years out, but I get the sense that it's not the same lock it used to be.
At MS. I think the current first year analysts have just had it rough in general. I've heard from a friend at EVR M&A that a lot of the first years didn't place during on cycle this year and roommate at GS said they were seeing the same thing over there. The second years however are doing pretty well IIRC, I think out of the 7 exiting there's BX, a couple H&F, KKR, CDR, Carlyle, one analyst going to an entertainment shop because he used to be a rapper, and a couple more.
When a PE head hunting firm came to my target on their slides it said that MS M&A was the best placing group in the first 48 hours of on cycle.
is MS M&A really that bad? It is a ways out but looking at group placement as I just signed and wondering if it is worth it to target. If not - what other groups at MS are well respected?
I interned there last summer and I'm going back full time - it's not terrible. Don't get me wrong - it is hard and you work hard, but the staffer is not a psychopath like said above. The analysts are cool people, you really build a good sense of camaraderie, and yes it's intense at times, but you learn a shit ton the name carries with you forever and the exits are amazing. It's hard to place in, but I think it's so worth it.
10/10 would not trust a past intern about the psychopath. Not to fully discredit you but staffers broadly do not work on deals - let alone on deals with interns. Past year intern actually has no good reference.
She has since rolled off the role so it means you get a chance to work with her on a deal this year. Maybe get a front seat to clown town. Good luck and the new staffer is a great guy!
GPUG and M&C have similar / equal exits, and gpug has considerably better hours, M&C still sweaty but a bit less so.
Edit: instead of throwing MS tell me how I’m wrong. Every GPUG analyst who tried placed in on-cycle this year. With the exception of H&F, these two groups also get your foot in the door at all the top places.
What does that stand for?
How does the M&C team compare in hours/exit-opportunities vs GPUG and other well respected groups
Work at MS, but not in M&A. For everyone reading GPUG is global power and utilities group and M&C is MediaComm. These are both really good groups at the bank and place exceptionally well, but are still a clear step down from M&A. In particular how I would rank exits would be something like M&A > MediaComm >> GPUG/FSG
Congratulations. I have not heard much about GS HC, but generally speaking, HC industry groups are pretty sweaty…
I would personally recommend M&C, GPUG, FSG, Tech…
Any info on comp?
Should be similar
Lol why is there so much debate over some of the best groups. At that point don’t you just pick the team and sector that you resonate with the most?
People like to run hypothetical scenarios for job offers on here lol
Lol spot on
If you're eyeing MF, MS M&A and its not close. No other group on the street is on par with exits besides PJT RSSG. Seems like you pay for the brutal culture in exchange for the experience. Most people I've met / worked with from the group were razor sharp.
Agreed. I really don't know why there's so much debate here.
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