If people go into this industry for the money, and they can get paid just as much as they would in NYC in a city where every dollar goes twice as far, why is NYC the goal?
Unless you’re already loaded and just do this job so you can tell ppl you work at Goldman Sachs, it doesn’t make sense.
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Really not hard to understand, young people enjoy living in NYC. It has endless things to offer. For a lot of people, the ability to live in NYC is well worth the cost differences. You couldn't pay me to live in Minneapolis, Cleveland, Charlotte or some other places with IB presence. Some people like those cities but many don't.
How are you going to enjoy all of these great things with IB hours lol
NYC is the one city where you can enjoy some semblance of a life while working banking hours. The whole city caters to high earning young people who work long hours (not just bankers but lawyers, PR, creatives, start-ups, etc.). Restaurants open until midnight, tons of late night entertainment options, easy public transport so you can get anywhere in the city on short notice, etc. Can’t say the same about Charlotte, Dallas, etc.
Idk man Charlotte is pretty cool and there's a bunch of stuff nearby within 1-3 hours (Asheville, Greenville, Atlanta, Athens, Augusta, Charleston, Savannah, Myrtle Beach), ski in NC, great weather year round, significantly lower COL, major airport hub to travel anywhere.
I’m in one of those cities you couldn’t be paid to live in and I have no complaints. I pay under 2k for an apartment that would easily cost 4x that in NYC. Have all of the amenities of a big city like bar scene, sports teams and dating scene without the traffic. Oh and I make the same amount of money as my NYC contemporaries, but it feels like I make double. I would have to make significantly more money to even consider NYC
Prestige + the experience ig. I just know I've finished to the idea of working on wallstreet at least twice. That includes sex and cranking ole' cyclops.
A Shakespearean way of putting it indeed!
It doesn't make sense to you that people who are deeply interested in finance & commerce would want to live in the mecca of finance and commerce?
This is like asking why a jew would live in Israel or a surfer would live on the coast.
I'm sick of people who don't like their jobs making it sound like we're all submissive slaves. I for one, love my job, love my life, love NYC and wouldn't move to the boonies if it entailed free housing.
This, NYC is one of the financial capitals of the world. With bigger markets come bigger paychecks. I doubt many MM MDs are clearing 10 mil in Nebraska.
I doubt many MM MDs are clearing $10M in New York either…
banks comp the same in houston/charlotte etc than nyc
Several things:
All the above stated, as someone who took the otherside of the bet, if you can find a world or national class firm and not have the expenses of Nyc, it’s pretty nice and you build wealth pretty fast. However, many people love the culture of NYC, so it’s really based on the type of person you are.
I'm someone who ended up doing this (moving to a lower-COL city but work for a national firm) and definitely get the building wealth fast and the focus on paycheck vs. profit. My personal balance sheet and lifestyle are way better where I am now vs. if I had been in NYC. I've thought about "trying to get ahead" in my career in a possible move to NYC and the numbers just don't work out over the medium term. (Plus, I have a really solid lifestyle where I work now).
There's definitely the Ego thing plus wanting to live in NYC generally too. NYC has more opportunity and more people, and living there would be way, way more fun than where I live now. I really miss being there even. Where I live now is probably among the less desirable cities that people live, but it has its benefits. I miss the NYC culture a lot, but my personal balance sheet does not.
I'm curious how much you think the Ego piece matters there. Are people actively hurting their lifetime career "profits" by staying in NYC, just so they can be there? In full honestly (not that it's a good thing; in fact it's the main thing that leads to most problems / blind-spots as I learned from Ray Dalio's Principles) I think of myself as an Ego driven person at times, and I can say I've found myself at times being more ego-driven rather than mastery-driven. Do you think most other people in this industry find themselves in a similar spot?
Would you say spending habits played a bigger role than living in NYC? Number ain't bad if you're 175+ without kids, I can definitely see how there is more opportunity to spend (e.g. fashion, 100+ dinners regularly, etc.). With kids gtfoh
Much more opportunity in NYC. SF is the other big finance hub but it's a less nice city to live in and still very expensive.
You can do IB in cities like Houston or Charlotte, but you have less long-term career opportunities than someone in NY. IB/PE pay very well, someone a few years in is not struggling on money even in NYC
Networking
DO NOT RECOMMEND NYC TO MOST. I have worked for a boutique consulting firm this year near Times Square area. I don’t think this is subjective when I say the whole city feels like a public restroom at a baseball game. Smelly and dirty, legitimately feels like a rotting city. People are crazy physically,mentally, and there outward appearance. Generally feels very unstable and a tragic place to raise a family. I don’t know how people can grow up and be sane there, Legit people walk on each other, breathe on each other it’s like a ton of rats. This seems like an exaggeration but it’s truthfully the best way I can describe it.
What do you expect for a liberal-run city?
Which cities are not run by liberals?
No, Podunk MS does not count as a city.
I mean the area around Times Square is a dump
lol - absolutely no one actually from NYC ever goes near Times Square for the reasons you describe. Midtown in general holds no appeal for most people who don't have to work there / aren't instagram wannabes looking for a rooftop to take selfies.
The question focuses on a singular job, not the ecosystem of opportunities, which is relatively myopic. Being in the hub of any sector provides the best ability to network, change jobs, start companies, etc. Sure you can go to a tier 2 city but your options are really constrained if you want/need a new job. This isn't to say its a bad thing to live in a lower cost city...but there is just a real cost and that is optionality.
My LI over the past decade has been full of finance kids wanting to move from SF to NYC or Charlotte to NYC.
Never once saw the other way. Take that for what it is. Isn't hard to understand if you open your mind a bit. There's no one fit solution, so yes you can definitely have a better time working in investment banking in Saskatoon, Saskatchewan but that's a minority of the youth's preferences.
Saying you don’t know any bankers in NYC itching to get out and go to a up and coming place like charlotte seems far fetched. NYC may have been cool like 30 years ago but now not that great and networking can be done anywhere
Ah yes, now that you mention it, there was one local New Yorker guy who told me how he was really looking into Charlotte as the next "up and coming place".
And his name was Albert Einstein.
PS: https://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forum/asset-management/goldman-sachs-cw… since you're a junior I can tell you that once you hit your 30s or even 40s you'll find that not a single person in your career circle regretted starting their career in NYC, even if they ultimately chose a completely different career path as their salary benchmark was high enough to pick the next path with a lot more optionality than people who started in small towns.
Aren’t you in college? Tf you know
Path of least resistance. People go where they can land a job. And people like NYC. The city is not for me, but it has undeniable appeal.
There are stupidly successful bankers, investors, consultants, etc. in Charlotte, Minneapolis, Austin, SLC, and other smaller cities. There are just fewer seats available, and once you put roots down you'll be in a difficult situation if you have to leave your firm and have limited places to move to.
Same for tech (SF/LA). Retail/consumer (NYC/LA). O&G (Texas, Dakotas). Media (LA/NY). Fashion (NY/Paris).
What if I cannot land a job in NYC? Am I limited to opportunity in a tier 2/3 city? Should I try to lateral to NYC first?
It’s not just IB. Young people in many careers want to be in NYC. It’s walkable, has lots of culture/sports/entertainment/dining/things to do, it’s easy to meet people, it’s the safest big city in the country by a substantial margin, and everything from networking to travel to shopping for food is easier.
“On paper,” it doesn’t “make sense.” I’ll concede that. But life isn’t a sticker collection; you’ll actually have to live where you choose to. What good does a better balance sheet do if your day-to-day is simply worse? We only get our 20s once.
If you can secure banking/finance sums outside of NYC, and you generally like what the alternative environs can provide in terms of recreation and living, you’d be a fool not to take it. Continuously amused by the notion that sub-MD/partner level weenies in NYC are constantly networking or generating alpha deals because they live .. in front of their computer monitors? More likely, your bitch ass is wheezing on electric citi bike checking your work phone on the way to a dinner with some notional acquaintance, meanwhile you’re dipping out every other weekend with your partner or buddies to some place other than NYC.
Financial capital of the world
/thread
I started in NY and moved to Texas many years ago now for lifestyle reasons and pace of life. It’s a much better place to raise a family, but it’s a tenuous situation as there aren’t many (if any) jobs similar to my seat now I could go to here should I want to leave. The golden handcuffs are too tight anyway so doesn’t really matter now, but choose your path carefully
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