Never had a relationship. What do I even do?

Develop hobbies. Hit the gym hard and make that money, because chicks love guys with money. If you're not funny, work at it.

If shift focus away from the dating apps first and foremost. Men are overpopulated on most platforms, so it’s hard to get noticed to begin with; being in person also provided the advantage of a more interpersonal experience that allows your charm, confidence, and body language to come through a lot better than it ever could on a phone app.

Start easy. Don’t go for a 10, but find someone that you find attractive. Someone that can grow on you, even if they aren’t perfect. If you’re shy, go for women that show interest in you first. Also, build yourself up before you start dating. High quality women want a guy who’s already put together. Easier to find matches outside of a major city, where women have more realistic expectations.

Avoid dating apps - they’re full of horny 4’s and 70% of downloads are dudes.

My 2 cents would be to find a hobby that you genuinely enjoy. This is likely going to be some form of physical activity, like running from my experience. Once your comfortable join any local clubs / initiatives.

You’ll get exposure to likeminded women, and I think you’ll find that when you have common ground it’s a lot easier to hit things off. Conversation will flow, and you’ll likely enjoy each-others company because of your shared interests.

I was in a similar boat, and I’m back in one now. It’s not easy, but I firmly believe that finding a hobby you genuinely enjoy made a difference to me. Hell, even if that women doesn’t come along, you still have a hobby that you’re getting better at by the week.

Remember man, nobody is going to be comfortable with you unless your comfortable with yourself.

Woman here. I'm really sorry you feel like this. I was having a conversation about dating with some friends and apparently it's a whole other world with random games, esp online dating. I would just choose to stay single if I had to go through the hoops with this nonsense after grinding the whole week. I'd agree with the advise above - take your focus away from dating and look for meaningful connection instead - look out to make friends and feel better. Get a few plants. Join a book club or a dance class or a running club or show up for those group hikes over the weekend. Physically showing up to different set of places will also help you realize what kind of people you get along with. Worst case you'll make some friends. I know a guy who's like 40, short on average, has a fairly introverted personality but dates pretty successfully. He's super well read, very active, tends to find sets of people he likes and keeps them close. He has hardly been on an online date - most of them have been people he met in person in a bar or something. I know it's hard with our work schedules but having stuff to look forward to / engage with will really make you feel more confident and I think will also help with your mental health

I can feel you man! The kind of feeling is not easy to go through. For some people who advised don't go dating app, at some point it is true because there are some app which just want to suck your money. But personally i have quite good experiences in dating app, which actually is sugar baby dating app. No crap, and real person. Can give my recommendation though if you want. Let me know and wish you good luck.

A couple things stand out to me and it would be helpful to get more color.

When you say short, how short are we talking about? Women view height, like we guys view weight, it’s just important to them.

Why did your friends laugh at you when you asked them to set you up? That’s seems like such an extremely harsh response to give an actual friend. Did you have any more context to provide?

Hit the gym buddy. Go through hell, come back a beast.

Hey man, I hope you are not getting discouraged because there is always hope. You should get motivated and fix the things that you think make you unattractive. Most important thing right now is to forget about women and focus solely on developing the best version of yourself. 
First thing you got to solve is your shyness. Hit the gym or pick up a martial art, trust me. Once you've started for a couple of months and get massive progress, your confidence will boost immensely. Second of all, being intelligent and knowledgeable is extremely attractive for women. You need to be able to hold a conversation, say some interesting stuff and then you'll be considered extremely fascinating. Third of all, develop your humor. I'm sure you're funny with the boys and have a certain kind of humor. Explore this with some women you meet and you'll find out how funny you might be for them. 
Lastly, if you're not having success with dating apps because maybe you don't have great pictures, fuck those apps and get to know them in the real world. The most important thing is to have a physical presence (not just height). That's why you should definitely hit the gym and maybe start grooming yourself better and dress up, trust me.
There are countless of aspects which you can improve slowly. You have time though not too much, therefore you should start improving these aspects asap!

Will echo a lot of the above. Recently was out of a LTR and the below has worked for me, even with a few built in advantages being 6'1" and above average attractiveness.

1. Get in shape. I cannot stress this enough, I went from 190 lbs and fairly muscular but carrying bodyfat to 170 lbs lower end body fat and lean while keeping the same muscle. I genetically keep a lot of my muscle in my arms/shoulders and the difference in attention was night and day at a lower weight.

2. Dress well. Have a couple nice fitting shirts, a pair or two of good jeans, and some nice henleys. For summer, add in some linen pants, knit polos, and linen shirts. Add in some nice white sneakers, some loafers, and you are good to go. Accessorize with a nice watch or two as well. I have been told how well I dress consistently (I keep it very simple and casual), so do not underestimate how women notice.

3. Smell good. Something like 90% of men don't wear cologne, so wearing some cologne puts you in the top 10% in that category, very easy way to stand out. It is something women notice right away, especially when in close with someone, it will put the odds in your favor to seal the deal. Find a scent that works for you, currently in the summer, I have been between Bleu de Chanel EDP and Giorgi Armani Acqua di Gio Profumo and get compliments frequently

The above are the big 3 and will help you stand out to women the most. What is great about these 3 is once you have them in check, you will naturally start to feel better about yourself, and in feeling better about yourself, will become more confident, and in becoming more confident, you will become better with women. It is a self fulfilling prophecy and puts yourself in continuous a positive cycle loop that you can continue to add to as you get better and better.

Additional advice would be to stay on the apps, but do not rely on them. They should something you have in your bag, but not your only bag. Take the time to optimize your profile, get good pictures (1-2 high quality pics of yourself, 1-2 of you doing some type of activity, and another 1-2 showing your friends), make your prompt answers creative and funny, and make sure your opening lines stand out. All of this will greatly increase your chances of matching, even with the algorithm being skewed against men. As an example, I have gotten over 250 matches on Hinge in the last 5 months being pretty selective and not really putting too much time into the app.

As far as going out goes, make sure you put yourself out there consistently. Take a cooking class, a workout class, a sports league, anything that you can meet women who already have a common interest. As far as going out goes, do not be afraid to approach in public consistently. Once you get over the fear/embarrassment of rejection, you will find out that it is a numbers game and you will be really surprised by how easy it can be to get women when going out. There are a lot of factors that would be overlooked or non-existent on the apps that work in your favor in real life.

Hey Bro,

First of all, I want to say that this is not unexpected, in today's age, and among people from certain cultural/ethnic backgrounds.  I think over 50% of men are single today, and something like 30% haven't had sex in the past year.  Many of my friends who came from traditional backgrounds from a select set of geographic regions (India-Pakistan, Arab countries, East Africans etc..), or who were raised as 2nd gen from said backgrounds, have the same issues.  I myself had these same problems, and I didn't get into my first real relationship till about 22, which is younger than 28, but still far from 17-18 that is parroted as the common age, by our culture today.  

I'm going to list out a few things that may help. 

1.  Online dating.  Never have I seen so many polarized takes, as I have seen for this.  From what I've seen, and what I surmise to be correct, a couple of things here need to happen for it to be worthwhile.  A--You're reasonably tall.  Most women only care that you're taller than them, but on the apps they have the ability to filter and they use it aggressively.  6'0 is the common cutoff (as you'd expect), and I've seen a marketed increase in the amount of matches I get when I specify 6'1 over my real height (5'9).  If you're 5'7 or under, I promise you that the apps will be very difficult, and this is something men who are taller never understand. B--You live in a major city (NY, DC, Chi, BOS, SF, LA, etc...)  Dating apps are worthless by the time you hit the suburbs.  What this basically means is that, if you're not tall (and forget about looks here) while living in a suburb, all apps will likely be worthless.  You're ethnicity also matters here, as my white/white passing friends have significantly more luck on them vs my east asian/south asian friends.  In summary, don't use the apps unless you're located in a major city.  Make sure the pics are good, as well, and by well I mean, professional grade, and give it your best shot.  Most likely however you will need to build a.......

2.  Social circle.  This is an organic way of meeting girls, and having a good one is always a benefit.  The question then becomes, how do you actually build one.  I wont spend too much time on how to do so since it varies so much from person to person, but I will say that having a large circle will help you keep any woman you get.  I'd continuously reach out and join as many clubs as possible, and try to stay active.  I know this is hard, and I know that ideally there would be a more organic way of meeting people, but unfortunately, you're going to have to stick with this.  For someone with your profile, this is a far better way to meet women.  But you have got to start, and more importantly, stick with it for a while. 

3.  Fitness.  You need to be fit.  Ideally, every man should be, but especially someone who is 5'6,28, with little sexual or romantic experience.  You are not trying to stay steady with your peers, you are not only catching up, you are starting from scratch, while trying to catch up to men with more experience.  This requires you to max out any stat that is under your control.  Nothing is more under your control than how you look.  Trust me, if you haven't already, being fit is by far the biggest force multiplier available to men today.  If you're not willing to do just this, and only this, give up now.  I'm serious.  I'm hoping you're fit already, b/c this really should be intuitively understood by every single man.  

4.  Grooming.  Dress well, smell good, and look like someone you'd want to be with yourself.  This can be learned easily, and is important once you're actually getting dates.  

5.  General Stuff-- Women are not as complicated as you think, but most men with experience are almost incapable of rationally describing their experiences, and success factors, which leads to situations where regular men, don't get the help they need.  I want you to know that you can break out of this hole you're in, but you will most likely need to be a different person to do so.  I know it sucks, I know other men didn't have to make a similar trade off, but this needs to be understood.  I think something less successful men don't realize is how many reps you need to be successful.  The guys I know who meet and sleep with many girls, are quite aggressive about it, and don't mind rejection whatsoever.  

6.  IMPORTANT-- You are going to meet many women who will find you a total turn off.  That's just how it is, at your age and with your experience level.  I'd highly suggest aiming 'low' while trying for your first lay, while also looking for women who prioritize traits like honestly, and intelligence.  I just wanted to mention this out there, as nothing really stings as much as being told you're sexually inadequate by a woman you like lol.  Regardless, don't give up when something inevitably blows up.  There's a reason why almost nobody stays with their first partner, outside of people living in culturally traditional societies.  

I really do wish you luck bro.  This is a psychological hole that actually destroys many men who grew up not knowing how to operate in the 'Western dating market', for lack of a better term.  

Always available to chat privately as well.  I wish someone had guided me when I struggled with the same issues years ago, so I'm always willing to help.  

Asking women for dating advice or if you are ugly lol please dont make that mistake again. Women in that scenario dont care about helping you, they care about preserving their feelings of them being a good person and/or just getting out of an awkward conversation. Also, frankly women dont know what women are attracted to.

Ask yourself these questions:

- do you have a career? A good job? 

- do you go to the gym regularly? How much can you lift? What's your body fat %?

- Do you have clothes and wardrobe that compliment this physique? Do you mostly dress like an adult?

- If someone asks what is the craziest thing youve done in the past year, or what your hobby is, do you have an answer? What do you do for fun? (TV, Netflix, bars, food, video games, etc arent an answer)

- do you have a social life?

If answer to any of the above is no then you need to address that first. You also need to go into these situations knowing you are going to take it clean on the chin a few times. Likely get heart broken, likely be awkward a bit, but that's all ok . You will improve. You will get better. And eventually this will all come natural. The good news is you have a sense of urgency about this. If you really wait any longer you are setting yourself up for a pretty rough go of things. You are still in your 20s which means people your age are still looking for partners, looking to make friends, looking to have fun. If you give it another 5-10 years that wont be the case and itll be too easy to recluse.

Also if you want, message me your profile on dating app and I can give you real concrete advice. The biggest mistake guys make is they dont know how to sell themselves at all

Start going to therapy and hire a dating coach. I was like you like a year ago - had my first kiss at 25 - and my life changed after that.

Group workouts… think crossfit, jiu jitsu… maybe even rock climbing gyms…

Get strong and confident with the above

Also, save some money and go travel even if it’s just a month. Stay in hostels. No matter what conditions, you should meet people and practice communication skills. It might take a few years to get where you want to be but that’s ok

If there is one thing girls like, it is a guy who knows how to lasso. If you don't know how to lasso, you're done. I mean what would you say if she asks? Don't set yourself up for failure. Learn how to lasso. 

Honestly dude…just stay single and focus on yourself, shit is fucked these days. As long as you’re rich and have a good group of friends and a solid family, you can still be happy without being in a relationship. 
 

I mean…have you seen the type of people dating? If it was all the most attractive, wholesome people, then yes, you have a reason to be sad and/or concerned that you haven’t dated. But some of these people are messed up as hell, and pass on their problems to others. Also, a lot of these people are very unattractive. Just go to any Walmart and you’ll see some…interesting couples. 
 

I’m in a similar boat to you. I’ve been called attractive by multiple people, probably in better shape than the vast majority of people, and make more money than 99% of people. A lot of people have also called me charismatic and popular. Guess what? I’ve never been in a relationship either. Funny thing is…sometimes if you’re overqualified, it’s actually harder to date because a lot of people become intimidated and self reject themselves. They think you’re out of their league. 
 

Also, a lot of women become extremely shy/insecure around attractive/successful men and so that’s why so many of them end up settling for losers instead. The one thing women can’t handle is rejection. So basically you just keep doing you. Walk around with your head held high and if it happens it happens, but if it doesn’t, hopefully you have enough money to like go on a week-long island vacation and enjoy yourself or something. 
 

There are multiple avenues to happiness these days that don’t require being in a relationship with some woman with baggage. And also fuck those “friends” that laughed at you. They should be doing anything they can to help you out if they were real friends. Or at the very least provide you some constructive criticism. That’s some bullshit, drop them like it’s hot. 

fpanda_69

I know this is super fucking pathetic but screw it I have no one else to ask.  In 4 months I'll be 28 years old and I've never been in a relationship before.  I've only been out with 4 separate women in my life (was only actually attracted to 2 of them) and the longest I talked to any of them was 3 weeks, the others they ended it after like a week or 1-2 dates.  I'm not sure where I went wrong in life or what's wrong with me to have ended up like this, I know it isn't normal.  

It'd be one thing if I was getting dates on a semi-regular basis and just messing them up.  But only 4 women in almost 28 years?  I just never am given a chance.  I got almost zero matches on dating apps, before I deleted Bumble, Hinge, and Tinder I went 7 months without a single match on any of them. On the rare occasion I get a number in person they don't reply when I text them 1-2 days later.  I asked 2 friends if their girlfriend's/fiancee's had single friends they might be comfortable introducing me to and they both laughed at me. It seems like all the dating avenues never work for me for some reason. 

I'll be the first to admit there's things wrong with me, I'm short, shy, and not really confident just to name a few, but I've asked 2 girl friends 1.) if I'm ugly 2.) if they would help me with my dating profiles.  They both said I was cute and far from ugly, and even with a woman's touch on my dating profiles nothing changed.  They said they had no idea why I'm not having any success, and I eventually stopped bothering them with it because I felt bad. 

So now at this point all my friends are either living with long term girlfriends or are engaged, and then there's just me.  Often times I don't have much to do because they're with each other doing couples things, seeing each other's families, or wedding planning. I can't get mad at them for it, it's just the stage of life they're in now. 

I haven't tried dating in a few months because I just don't know what to do at this point.  I just want a woman I can go out to eat with, travel with, go to events with, celebrate holidays with, but I dont know. 

Never Happened.

If it's true, DM me and Isaiah and I will be your wingmen for a weekend in Vegas .  You'll return home with a newfound coked up confidence that would bring Belfort to his knees. 

i’m a girl so i’ll give my advice:

landing the date- honestly dating apps are where a lot of people have met their SOs (including myself). Start using Bumble or Hinge, stop using Tinder. Not sure what your political stances are, but setting it to conservative on a dating app might be helpful. A lot more conservative girls want long term partners and respect themselves a bit more (JUST FROM MY OBSERVATION AS A GIRL). Give the 6.5-7 a chance if you are only swiping on 9-10s. It’s just the reality of what you’re going to need to do for now. start focusing on personality over looks as well (not sure what ur swiping process is)

As for finding someone day to day or attire for a date: not sure what clothes you’re wearing, but don’t get too into high end fashion (imo best thing guys can wear are lulu 5 inch inseam shorts, an alo long sleeve or lulu button up, and shoes that aren’t obnoxious (DO NOT WEAR CONVERSE, GUCCI TENNIS SHOES, OR AIR FORCE 1s)…. if i see a guy pulling up in all higher end designer, i think he’s gay (just the truth)

if you land a date i’d suggest lulu ABC pants and a lulu button up. trust me, girls dig the look

also, start hitting the gym. most girls like guys who feel “bigger” than them. as someone who is 5 ft 10, i’d date someone who is 5 ft 11 but beefy over a 6 ft 2 slim jim.. that’s also preference but from who i’ve asked, a lot of girls aren’t into skinny guys (just how a lot of guys aren’t into overweight girls)

be chivalrous. ngl i’m lucky with the boyfriend i’ve landed, i hear horror stories from my friends. pay for the meal, open all doors, walk on the street side, don’t let a girl carry anything, offer to walk her to her apartment or house.

if you want a high value girl, keep ur d in ur pants for the first few dates, start going to church or whatever religion you follows worship 2x/m, and also stop following 500 only fans models on social media. if i was single and saw my date was following a bunch of thots i’d probs just cancel

hope this helps, happy to help more if you need it! feel free to reach out. also get new friends. any friends who laugh at you when you need help are NOT your friends. good luck!

Dont spend your time dealing with this stuff. It is just overrated. Keep grinding at something you love with discipline. 

Get arranged married. You will most likely (i) punch upward, (ii) get a girl that does not belong to the street, (iii) get a girl that is not a golddigger and lastly (iv) no divorce. 

Hi fpanda_69,

Thank you for sharing your story and allowing yourself to be vulnerable. We'll help you.

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My biggest take-away from your post is that you are needy, anxious, and inauthentic. Women don't like you because you don't like yourself.

You write, in so many words: "I am sad because girls don't love me." But the feeling I am getting from you is: "I am sad because I am not the kind of man that women love."

Women love men that 1). Express desire without expressing need, and 2). Live an authentic life.

The second point is more important - authenticity. Authenticity means doing the things you want to do, and feeling pride about the choices you make. This is where self-image comes into play. If you don't really love your job, the way your body looks, your living situation - you need to fix this. If you can't feel excitement over your own life, why would any woman want to join it?

The first point is applied focus; expressing desire without expressing need. There's a paradox here. Need implies an external locus of control, that the needs of other people come before your own. Needy people tend to be agreeable crowd pleasers that cower from criticism, avoid rejection, and run away from conflict. Women don't respect men like this. No one does.

Desire is different. Desire means: I want you. But I don't have to have you. People with desire approach from strength, while people with need approach from desperation.

Here's a reframe. The next time you meet a woman---and you will---try something different. Instead of wondering, "What should I say to her?" ask yourself "Is she going to be a good partner for me?" This is the high-ground maneuver. You are subconsciously making her enter your frame, as opposed to you entering hers. You are no longer needy.

There's a reason there are more single women than ever. It's because dating sucks for them too. Every girl sipping a margarita alone at the bar is hoping--praying--that someone interesting will talk to her. Hoping someone smart, funny, charming and talented will step into her life, sweep her off her feet, and solve her biggest problem. She's at this bar hoping that person is you. Instead, she has to deal with sweaty, needy, unconfident, boring men who can't seem to offer her anything. And she has to reject them, because she can't be with someone she doesn't respect.

Don't be that guy anymore. Take control of your life. Lose weight. Spend real money on clothes. Stop being so agreeable. Start approaching attractive women. Be courageous. Be a better you. Once you stop needing a woman, that's exactly when she'll show up.

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Further reading: Models, by Mark Manson.

Definitely keep using the dating apps. I met my now wife on one. Ironically it was a dating app that I typically found the lowest quality on and was about to delete. 

It's all money brother and a low bodyfat %

Anyone else think there's a disproportionately high number of these incel/ lonely posts on WSO? What does that speak about the WSO community

Time to looksmax boyo

Hang in there, buddy. Love has a funny way of sneaking up on us when we least expect it.

There's a ton of advice on here that doesn't bare repeating, so I'll give you the latest piece of advice I've been given for this topic. 

Dating, or relationships, come down to two things: opportunity and access.

Now, for the opportunity, it simply means you want to put yourself in social settings as frequently as you can. This doesn't mean go to a bar/club every single night, rather, find a hobby you genuinely enjoy that gets you out of your comfort zone. Something that has an elements of group activity like salsa dancing, group bouldering, group music classes, group cardio workouts or spin classes, really anything where you both genuinely enjoy the activity and can come out once or twice a week and meet some great folks who share that interest. 

The second piece comes down to access, now I'd say this actually is broken down into two steps.

The first is preparedness, I find that for guys who don't get hit on (so... most of the population), we have this apprehension to just walk up to someone we have no familiarity with and start a conversation out of the blue. But really, much like an interview skillset or a case interview, you can work on this and build on this. You can come up with openers. Something like approaching to seek an opinion ("Hey, can you settle an argument for me? My friend and I were discussing earlier who lies more, men or women."), come in with a classic complement ("Hey, you absolutely crushed it today! You have godlike level stamina.") or a joke. Really, anything to break the ice and start the conversation. Have a few stories ready and just ask questions see where the conversation goes (similar to an informational interview). 

The second piece is practice, now you won't hit it off with everyone you speak to, but the more people you speak to, the easier it'll be to hold less insecurities or self-confidence issues. If you have mutual friends, go to a party as a group and try striking up a conversation with someone else; guy, girl, it doesn't matter, at this stage, it's a matter of growing more comfortable socializing. The more you chat with folks, the more confidence you'll gain and the more natural you'll come across.

Going to the gym or taking part in physical activity can do wonders for your mental health. It does far more for your mental health than your physical health. There's a few reasons to this, but one core reason is it changes your perception of yourself. There's a subconscious way in how we see ourselves, and the byproduct of that is confidence or inconfidence. When you go to the gym, you see yourself in better light and that carries forward into other faucets of life.