Saying Goodbye to Finance?
For those who have left finance/PE, how did you know when it was time?
I’ve been on The Path (IB ➔ PE) and am leaving my firm this summer. I’m recruiting for other PE jobs and having success. I’m not sure it’s still what I want though. PE is interesting and there’s parts I do genuinely enjoy, but I’m realizing I never asked myself if it’s the right job for me or if I like money and pReStIgE.
I’ll be candid: I’m a hard worker and smart, but was always an OK analyst and associate. The kind that makes more mistakes than they should and isn’t as proactive as they should be but manages. I’m starting to explore — before I start another one lol — if I want a job where it’s table stakes (not exceeding expectations) to have unwavering attention to detail, willingness to grind to any end, and organization to execute a dozen disparate workstreams at once with no oversight (Or, if I just don’t like working and have to get over it lmao).
Basically, I’m at a crossroads and weighing if I want to keep grinding or pull the rip cord and do a more relaxed job. I never thought much about what I want to do, so asking here: How did you all decide it was time to leave finance and figure out what you want to do?
I am a slave to my own idealized version of who I should be, and so I remain in finance, and not only that, but am doubling down to do the PE-->HF part of the The Path(tm). I know that I can get off at any point, but I can't bring myself to do it, because of some self image I have of who I should be and what that means for how others will think of me, regardless of how much is how much they actually think something of me, vs. what I think they think of me. I know I'm not alone. Life is good so I don't think about this day to day, but since you're asking, it's my best attempt to do a little self-reflection of why I'm still here and why I haven't pulled the plug yet to actually do something with my life that I would enjoy doing. Like in Inception: "Do you want to become an old man, filled with regret, waiting to die alone?”
Anyway I also have had a totally moving target for what "enough money" looks like so until I can somehow reset that, I am really stuck, even though I don't spend that much money (maybe an extra +$30k/y over a non-finance person, disproportionately small increase in spending relative to proportionate increase income).
Does any of this resonate with you? I am being honest about myself, so this is not the comment to reply something mean to. Save it for replying to Pizz.
Thank you for sharing. Perhaps a strong follow up question would be what areas outside of work do you think that you could’ve developed to be more rounded outside of money/prestige etc? I ask this of myself often but haven’t quite been able to identify things that I can do during down time that give me the same intellectual spark or find avenues for meaningful social connection/community building.
yes, i relate to this. i used the phrase “give up” in therapy this week and my therapist really jumped on that (changing careers isn’t giving up). aside from money and prestige, i’ve been doing finance for nearly 4 years and before that i was trying to get into finance. needless to say, part of it is 1) my self identity intertwining with my job, 2) inertia, 3) fear of the unknown.
as for money, yeah that’s a toughie. me and my finance friends often joke (only partly in jest) how ridiculous it is that we can’t imagine living off $125k at the age of 25. it helps i get underpaid now so the gap isn’t insurmountable. in any event, iff golden handcuffs are a concern it never gets better. until you get to the tippy top, the delta between what you make in finance vs what you’d make if you leave gets wider, and your cost structure is likely shifting towards fixed (e.g., mortgage, car loan, MBA debt, children, etc.)
He jumped because now there might be an opening at your firm. That's a clear sign that your therapist wants to recruit for PE, give him a referral. Pull the Uno reversal card and psychoanalyze him
I appreciate this so much and very much relate to it. It's a battle (internally). The idea of getting off the path would (i) obviously have some impact to lifestyle / future lifestyle but more importantly (ii) shatter my view of self.
In terms of enough money, I would say that number increased for a while in my 20s, and now it seems to be somewhat stable and even have come down a bit (i.e., ya know what, if I were to reach $X, I would move out of the city so less expenses, I don't need the ferrari, etc.)
totally agree with the insight about idealized version haha.....i can relate...just doing the finance path to check the box
how old r u and how much do you make?
25 and there’s a lot more numbers above my TC than below it ;)
Also in a current state of internal debate with this. On the one hand it’s an opportunity to see what else is out there and what I might enjoy more (in a tangential sect of the industry or on the corporate side), but on the other I worry I might lose some of my sense of self and, as stupid as it sounds, sense of worth by taking a lateral or even backwards step and operating in a lower stakes environment (not to mention the likely comp stepdown).
I don't really have many helpful thoughts on this matter except to say that I was in pretty much your exact spot 6 months ago and decided to pull the plug and start doing what I actually wanted with life (it has 0 to do with finance - think something like writing/academia). I completely left commercial life though, so kind of different than what you're contemplating.
I was completely trapped in this mindset and social circle which was very fixated on prestige (a holdover from insecure college days), and what helped was realising that it was a very narrow version of prestige. Even working in MF PE, the only people who really gave a shit were other people in PE/IB, or the types who wanted to know how to get my job. Basically, people who I really didn't want to be friends with anymore. My friends in journalism, medicine, and art barely had a clue about the difference between Carlyle and Thoma Bravo.
The hard part is always finding something that gets you excited and is worth doing, not saying goodbye to finance. The moment you start liking something enough that you start getting annoyed that your workday is getting in the way of you doing that thing, then you know. It's really easy from there. I don't really miss being part of the high finance scene that much, and strangely enough I don't miss the money (although it's only been 6 months so time will tell).
great comment. having run into several similar types and even some people in the "in between stage" before they find what they want to do, there is no stress like knowing it's already time to step away, and they haven't yet. props to you and hope you had a good time in finance. do you feel like you'll miss the social scene at all? that's one thing that for me is less and less important. it felt like everyone was a banker 1-2 years out. now it is, as you said, largely negligible where and what you do for work. but still, I feel like it would be lame to just be hanging out somewhere not doing, well, what the "prestige" tellers say is prestigious. IDK. I guess I just need to find my passion.
I think some or many of us have dealt with this feeling in some capacity
Quick question for the people here, when you think about your core friend group, what career field are they in? (other finance folks, consultants, healthcare professionals, teachers, art, etc..). Trying to see something
Any thought to getting a more relaxed job in finance? Do you like what you do but the hours and inane detail wear you, or do you just not find finance interesting? It sounds like a lot of the things you're listing off would be more or less solved in a different area.
Feels like corp dev, IR, strategy, AM, maybe even real estate (non-PE) could be more interesting for you, but not go totally off the deep end and totally out of finance to the point you'd have trouble getting back. Those are typically lower-stakes jobs, people have lives/generally don't grind too hard but still make solid money and have an interesting career. you aren't teaching yourself to swim in a tsunami like you are in IB/PE. Kind of a natural move as you get older and realize money/prestige isn't everything.
I think The Path kind of splinters off after you do that IB + PE combination, you are legitimized enough at this point that you have some leeway to explore what you actually want to do. I see guys going into really random career paths that they enjoy. You wouldn't be the only one.
Went on WSO today for the first time in months to read the Tipping MD's post, then came across this. Honestly thought it was one of the ones I wrote 12 months ago.
I left PE as a second year associate for pretty much the same reasons you laid out. I realized I didn't care about Prestige and saw myself either turning into my co-workers to force myself to like the job or eventually burning out (hated most of my co-workers besides a few Associates). I tried therapy and ended up going on anti-anxiety / -depressants during this phase which certainly helped me cope, but eventually realized I didn't want the life or Prestige enough anymore to want to keep up the lifestyle I was living. My best friends didn't care that I was in was at a top Chicago PE shop, they liked me for who I was in college or outside of work.
My original plan was to grind through my second year and then take time off or go to B-School, but I ended up getting a job referral for a Corp Dev / Strategy role that was in my dream, niche industry. A huge pay cut, but working 40-50 hours a week and getting to do stuff every night of the week (if I want) is so refreshing. Going to the gym more, cooking for myself more, hanging out with my friends and (new, old one dumped me cuz of PE) girlfriend more, traveling and visiting parents more. What I lost in Prestige / Comp I'm making up for in my new free time, at least in my eyes. Sure I won't be a Billionaire but I'm making more than enough to support my lifestyle and haven't thought twice about the decision I made.
Hope this helps.
What's your comp now? Do you see yourself doing B-school at all?
Comp is $140k base with $5k starting bonus and a verbal bonus target of ~15-20%, so thinking around $170k all-in if all goes to plan.
I live in Chicago so think that is more than enough, may have to move to NY / LA next year and would ask for a cost-of-living boost if so.
I have no immediate plans to leave but I think at some point B-School will make sense; I work under a single superior for the most part so may be hard to advance down the road but not really going to worry about that until I'm at least 18 months in.
I recently made this move a year and a half into banking. Had no interest in PE / HF and knew this was what I wanted to do long-term so went for it when I found an interesting opportunity. However, I have been feeling more questionable about my decision - I also have much more time now too but I almost feel "bad" not working the sweatshop banking hours I was earlier and consistently work late / always check my phone still even though I know people won't be pinging me things to do past a certain time now. Maybe its because I made the jump much sooner but recently I've felt like I should've stayed (maybe I'm not over the prestige factor yet). In your perspective, was this type of move only worth it because you had the full IB -> PE route or would you have considered the right role earlier on? If I continue feeling not great about it, would an MBA be the only way back into "finance" to even get back into IB?
Sorry for the delay in getting back to you -- was out of the country for a bit.
On the first part of your question, I certainly wanted to try PE coming out of Banking and frankly thought (perhaps purposely being naive for my own sanity) that it would be a better lifestyle than banking. It's slightly better, but at most MM PEs and above its really not that much different. I do think it is more interesting and there is less 'bitch' work than my banking analyst stint. Doing over a year of PE made me realize that my firm was not where I wanted to spent the rest of my life and that made me very willing to switch.
I've been waiting to have the feeling you describe hit, where I feel bad for working normal hours and get some anxiety over being 'bored', but 4 months into this new gig I think I've gotten what I wanted. With that said, I spent a lot of time thinking about what I really wanted out of a job at my age (therapy helped here), and I knew I no longer wanted to work 60+ hours a week (on average). So doing a lot of soul searching I think has helped stave off those feelings.
As part of the second part of the question, you mention getting back into finance. You mention you have no interest in PE / HF so is this purely for the comp / prestige angle? Not trying to pry, but trying to piece together what you said. If not, maybe spend some time thinking about what your desired role is and try to support yourself in not having anxiety about work (i.e., always checking your phone / acting like you are 'on call' all the time (these at least were the bad ones for me)).
Lastly, for getting back into IB, I'd think you'd be able to come in as hopefully a second year analyst. You may lose that 6-months you gained, but depending on how you left you could try your old firm or headhunters as I think the talent brain drain in banking makes it easier for ex-analysts to get back in (this is based on my experiences through mid-2022, so may be dated with the downswing we are seeing). I don't think you'd need a full MBA, just need to work to sharpen up your story on why you are going back to finance so it doesn't seem like you weren't up for it.
I left finance and then came back - did a Q&A a bit ago that may be helpful: https://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forum/private-equity/qa-returning-to-pe-after-a-year-and-a-half-at-a-series-c-startup
I appreciate the comments here and have been fascinated by the level of honesty that so many have shared. Will start by saying I utterly respect those who feel called to provide for themselves and their families by working in these types of roles. Full stop. Hard work is a good thing, indeed, from a religious perspective (no need to agree with me here to get something out of this post), God himself was a worker, creating the earth and making man/woman in his own image. What is worrisome and so easy to become trapped by is the notion that identity is directly linked to what you do at work and who you work for. This as many people have found is very shaky ground to stand on. It's shaky ground to stand on especially in high finance, because the circles that people often run in at these work environments often create the illusion that this path is all that matters and that society does indeed have tiers when it comes to the types of jobs that are truly fulfilling or have any meaning (e.g. a job at Carlyle is more valuable than a job at EY). It's also shaky ground to stand on because as we all know, our time is completely consumed day and night to the point where by having hardly any time outside of work, we can become a shell of ourselves and suddenly feel that work is our life, furthering the tension between the thought that our identities are directly linked to our work. I think a good first step for many, and one that I've found incredibly helpful, is to truly accept the fact that I am not my job. I'll say it again. I am not my job. I am not the income I make. I am not the mistakes I make. I am not the victories I encounter. I am not my performance bonus. Once this is accepted as truth, it becomes easier to view the world and your work differently and suddenly feel a heightened level of freedom. Indeed you can view those closest to you differently as well - equipped with the understanding that they too are not defined by where they work or what they earn. Practically speaking, and where I find myself even while working in a high finance role, is starting to question how to spend the most valuable asset of them all: time. Indeed, time moves in one direction as we all know, and I think society has not done a good job of emphasizing just how valuable time is, or at least it has distracted us to the point where we lose track of how we are spending it. If we're being honest, most of us agree that we can find a source of good income. We cannot go back 5 years and spend 24 more hours with our loved one who passed away - though we will in the life to come (discussion for another time). And thus, equipped with the realization that our identity is not what we do, but who we are: intricately created human beings made by God (again, just my conviction and I don't disrespect other convictions here) capable of creating goodness and beauty in the world, a healthy freedom can form in our approach to work, regardless of the level of demand, that seeks to provide value and serve others rather than trying to protect what used to be an identity linked to work. It also introduces the possibility that our time, again, life's most valuable asset in my view, does not have to be spent in an office from 8am-2am working on that which may not bring happiness and joy to your life. For everyone this looks different, and indeed we all have different goals, and some are certainly better positioned to do jobs like this than others. For me, I've considered what it would look like to create assets that provide more time in my life to do all the other things that bring happiness and joy into my life that a job in high finance long term does not allow me to do. What it would look like to enjoy a full weekend completely on my own without worrying about getting called or pinged for work? What would it look like to save in such a way as to have the opportunity to take a sabbatical to spend uninterrupted time with those I love? By no means do we want to be foolish with our finances and I fully understand that life has its costs, but thinking critically about your own happiness and how you can serve the world to bring about joy and happiness in others lives is a worthwhile endeavor. If you feel that a career in PE or IB is the answer to bringing beauty and truth and goodness in the world, awesome. If you don't think that is really the path best suited to serve others and enjoy happiness, be comforted in knowing that there is freedom in that. Totally understand the tension and the pressures that society puts on us, but you'll never regret being selfish with your time doing what truly brings you joy day to day. For further reading, consider the book "Excellent Sheep" which provides helpful perspective here. For a more religious take, consider "You Are What You Love" by James KA Smith. I'll close with words from the old poem by Robert Frost: two roads diverged in a yellow wood…and I, I took the one less traveled by, and that has made all the difference.
Super helpful comment and much more insightful / philosophical than I expected to read on WSO.
I'm religious as well, but even outside a religious perspective I think when it comes to The Path there are a few ways to know if it is for you (as you mention):
I hate to make blanket statements but I don't think I've met someone who has lasted for a long time without one of these buckets. I honestly think I had parts of all 3 buckets, but once I realized I didn't like my job enough to want to work weekends, I didn't care about comp enough to justify my hours / lifestyle (never tried to put my job above other industries, think you are a jerk if you do that), Prestige points weren't a thing besides on this website and for high school reunions, and I wasn't fully set on B-School except as an escape from my job.
Not sure if this is helpful but that framework led me to eventually realizing it was time for me to get off The Path.
As someone who has been in the industry for 8 years, I think you need to make the decision whether you are a deal junky or not. Ultimately cream rises and whatever you do, if you are the best, the compensation will follow. People say this generally but for those that work in PE I think it actually might be true given the hard work and intellect it take to lock-in a spot.
If you get excited by a take-private or buying a business owned by a family for 80 years with opportunities to professionalize, this industry might be for you. If that task sounds like a to-do list, this probably isn't your game. There is a natural inflection point in PE where cash compensation upside transfers to carried interest. That is the point when you need to make this decision.
If public markets, multi-asset allocation, or corporate strategy excite you more, then exit at the right time and live your best life. Just my perspective it comes down to what you want.
Personally I think if deep down you're not super interested by PE, and you probably know it by now, there is no point in staying. Try to do what you would be the most interested in (as long as it's a good career) or something chill and bearable from an intellectual standpoint.
PE is an intense industry and I think it is incredibly interesting (arguably the most complete junior level business job one can do). If you dont feel the same, I think it is hard to thrive in it long term.
Offering a perspective as someone who deviated from the path during COVID and now heading back to PE:
Corporate is a whole different animal, and I ended up not slacking / relaxing as much as I’d hope to. You also got much more limited exposure (even as corporate strategy). Your peers are more diverse (but some are also much less hardworking / understandable as they have different priorities in life).
I didn’t regret that I tried though - it’s a fun industry (definitely makes me more interesting to talk to lol), allowed me to transition location wise, and also allowed me to meet a quite diverse group of people. To be honest it’s like bschool for me without that shiny golden stamp (but it’s okay). Best part is that I won’t think about the “what ifs” vs if I just stayed.
Risk is not as high, because with a few years of PE experience, you can probably always go back (as long as it’s only for <2 years outside of PE and you can spin the story). You may be a few years behind your peers, but not a huge deal as we’ll be working 20-30 years, and those additional perspectives may also make you a better investor. (I’ve seen quite many to take portfolio director roles / start-up roles and then go back to PE as VPs too).
Personally heading back to PE because I literally miss doing deals…I also kinda miss the colleagues - lots of intellectual conversations and surrounded by driven and hardworking people (very rare in corporate). Also enjoyed the opportunity to think about businesses more holistically (vs. focusing on a small part of it) and be able to connect the dots among a few businesses (either being add-on or just developing your thesis in a sector).
One additional add - during my time in corporate, I also realized some of my passion / ambition in arts / films (in terms of supporting such artists), and I’d prob do need the PE money to be able to do so…definitely a bigger ambition than just living a normal life, so I decided to be honest to myself haha
Quick question on the last paragraph, do you feel like it'd be hard to fund your hobbies/passion without a job in finance? I feel similarly as the hobbies I am taking up or want to take up in the future does cost quite a bit
I think as a hobby it’s prob ok to cover without a job in finance. I just realized that I have a bigger passion and ambition beyond just treating it as a hobby and that needs much more than corporate money.
Left IB after my first year for strategy and having similar feelings about corporate vs traditional financial services now. Continuing to grind like I did before just due to my personality except I'm not surrounded by the same anymore. Would it be possible / have you seen people get "back on track" into financial services if switching this early? I wouldn't mind going and staying in IB longer (2-4 years) if that's even feasible.
Totally possible (myself included). You need to sharpen your story a bit and be able to explain why you want to go back. I think it’ll be hard to recruit for associate roles, but totally possible for analyst roles.
However, frankly, now it’s a tricky timing in the US, with all the layoffs in banking and overall economic slow down (higher rates, harder to get debt and do LBOs, less deals overall). Hence it may be a bit harder than usual, as you may need to compete with people with more banking experience for the same roles.
I made the jump from MM IB (Piper/WB/Jeff) to growth equity (still busy, but more like 60-65 hours). Got married, had a kid and made the jump to a local single-family office doing LMM buyouts. Couldn't be happier. All-in cash comp takes a haircut for first few years, but we have a traditional fund economic structure (return threshold, carry), albeit lower management fees.
Hourly wages effectively increased 33% - 50%, I enjoy the work more and the long-term upside is there through ownership in the management company and carry pool.
Would highly recommend you explore the family-office world if you like elements of finance, but want a slightly more relaxed life.
I'm 26 y/o for some perspective. 2 years banking, 2 associate in GE.
Out of curiosity what is comp like at the single family office? Asking since I’m talking to one now, small shop that fits under the LMM umbrella. Thanks!
Our structure is a bit odd. I spend 5% of my time on LP allocations / 95% on the LMM strategy, which we bring a few other family groups into. Fundraising is pretty simple though with those groups, so I still somewhat think of it as a SFO.
im at $150k base with over 10% carry in each deal and over 10% in mgmt. company ( we charge mgmt fees to companies since no mgmt fee to investors.)
Also working 40 hours flat most weeks.
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