The unspoken truth about PE handcuffs

ok

How is practicing medicine pushing the boundaries of human knowledge 

It is not that you are not “intellectual” but in a wrong friend group - imagine you replace those friends with finance friends but one person is from a different background.

You guys might take about finance stuff (i.e. fed policy, impact of interest rates, M&A market, finance focused stuff etc.) and the Physics guy prob has zero clue and feel out of depth.

Plus btw you can read the AI stuff in your free time - it is not a gate keeped knowledge

Also you can give up your PE job to pursue PhD in a STEM field if that is your calling - no one holding you back

Sounds like you have goober friends lmao. I have never had a dinner conversation with my boys about quantum mechanics

dump your loser friends and find some finance ones. I've found these medicine / engineer people act self-righteous and morally superior to offset the fact they spent more on education only to earn less. Of course they're going to strive to make you feel like an outcast, they're jealous of you. 

Don't give in OP, you worked hard for your career. Just find a better social group. It's not you, it's them.

My response is you need to read more and feel comfortable asking more stupid questions when your friends are discussing these things. Investing is a field that requires a high degree of intellectual curiosity where you're often not the smartest person in the room. A large part of my days are spent sitting on calls with CEOs or experts where I'm way out of my depth and need to connect and communicate with them so it eludes me how you feel so intimidated by your friends.

I have a similarly nerdy and intellectual friend group born out from people I knew in high school and I'd say while they have a depth of knowledge that is impressive, nobody can really rival my breadth of knowledge. (i.e. I can communicate and speak on their turf a little and start to ask the right questions but they'd have very little shot in understanding what I do/think about)

Except what they don’t tell you is that 90% of “publishing” never gets read by a single human being outside of the people writing it, most of the topics are “response to / critique of” something that’s already written just so they can get their publication count up, and the vast majority of the “breakthroughs” are theoretical and never pan out beyond the lab.

I routinely get hit up by former classmates in academia desperately looking to exit to consulting or PE. The grass definitely ain’t greener 

Who tf wants to talk about markets, yields, deals and shit outside of work, that's some hardo bullshit. You can be in finance and still be well read, or fuck just rounded enough to have a meaningful conversation. Or even just listen, question and learn a thing or two. 

I think you're likely undervaluing the contributions that a breadth of knowledge, which is inherent to PE, can bring compared to the depth of knowledge that your friends in these more "intellectual" careers do. Naturally, career paths that favor depth are more likely to lead to breakthroughs - these folks are spending years or entire careers trying to solve one or a very small subset of problems. Private equity (in my experience and opinion) is a profession that values breadth of knowledge - of industries, sectors, market dynamics, legal structure, valuation methodologies, management teams + dynamics - and most importantly how to piece all of these together into a cohesive analysis of an opportunity.

Believe me, there are definitely days where I feel like each discrete task I'm doing could be completed by a smart 4th grader, but the reality is that it is the combination of these simple discrete tasks (also done in a competitive, time sensitive environment) that is what makes PE a mentally intense profession, just in a very different way from your friends. And no, I'm not saying that anyone in PE is really out here pushing humanity to the next level, but ultimately in the same way as a postal carrier or bank teller, PE is a crucial cog in the wider machine of the economy and society. 

We're each motivated by different things, and maybe you feel the need to be on that ground-breaking forefront of science or technology - in which case you should go pursue it. But you should remember that underpinning each breakthrough in humanity is a supporting and functioning society and economy, and in this regard working in PE allows you to play a quite outsized role (especially considering age and experience). So don't be too hard on yourself :)

Some people here seem rather unfairly critical of your friends. They are discussing fascinating topics and to be honest it's a great treasure trove of luck to have such people near you, with whom you can intellectually engage and grow. 

On a second point of how to carry on intellectual development in the highly time-pressurised environment of PE, well quite frankly I'm still just a student so I imagine a lot of what I'd write would be inapplicable due to your squeezed schedule. If I might just point to two things: if you truly wish to learn more about the frontier of human knowledge on the STEM side (ex: quantum) the question is do you have previous STEM education ? If so then I'd say already having the basics down means you can start working in a more forward manner on the topics that interest you by reading articles and perhaps also integrating it into your work ? By this I mean developing more and more surface knowledge under the guise of industry research ? Obviously your sector will place limits on that, but interesting subjects aren't limited to quantum, and some of the technologies you've mentioned (ML for example) are now hot topics in terms of applications across quite a few areas, so I'm certain you could find some interesting stuff to delve into (might also be an opportunity for you to bring a new so far less discussed but just as engaging topic to the friend table).

If you don't have a STEM background but want to better understand related topics, I'd suggest taking it as an awesome opportunity to learn brick by brick the foundations needed, which will most likely prove a slightly longer but deeply intellectually profitable project. You can do it bit by bit, starting from stronger math skills (which will overall make you feel sharper and are a healthy mental gymnastic) and then begin delving into the more applied subject of your choice, be it stats, biology, physics (if the latter you can check out https://www.susanrigetti.com/physics) etc... This would have to be done in your free time obviously but since the knowledge at play here is slightly more granular I'd imagine you can be more flexible with your learning.

Finally, there's also the future of your career. As you progress in PE I suppose the hours could get slightly better leaving a little more time for intellectual development of all types, and you might have more opportunities to explore deals in areas you're personally interested in. Perhaps you could also exit on the long-run. You don't seem extremely dissatisfied with your current position (which on this website seems rare) but nevertheless there may come a time when you feel you'll have run your course through PE and secured the financial comfort you find appropriate. At this point you'll be able to consider work in spheres matching your interests more closely, perhaps also securing some further studies along the way.

So yeah sorry this was so long, just wanted to put up my two cents on this topic as it's definitely one of my fears surrounding the world of finance. Hope the perspective of a student, though perhaps naïve, will have proven somewhat helpful

Read more fucking books lol

Nerds. Find better friends, drop some m and go to a rave😎

Sounds like a group of incels, sorry to offend. My group of friends talk about work for a solid five minutes and its over. You guys doing anything fun? Like boating, snowboarding, or anything? It also helps having girls in your social circle and perhaps having a girlfriend so you wouldn't have to talk about so much lame shit that no one cares about.

honestly nah man those intellectuals can eff off. First of all, some of the most intelligent, intellectual, interesting, accomplished, and brilliant people i know work in pe/finance. The job itself has more complexity and technical elements than most of those "intellectual pursuits" you are glorifying. Go try and explain any singular technical investing concept to them and they will have no clue and break out into a sweat. 

Second most of those intellectual paths are just as empty and non-impactful as you make PE out to be. Most of the time those intellectuals are projecting their own insecurity that they had to spend an additional 10 years in school to publish a paper on renewable minerals in western Ethiopia that nobody is ever going to read, while you've managed to have a successful career that they don't understand. 

And third if thats the type of dinner conversations you're having you should definitely expand your circle.

Those types definitely don't have the moral high-ground on you. If you work in PE long enough you come to appreciate the unique benefits/skills that you personally derive from the environment, and the positive effects in can have on the private and public sector. 

Honestly, go work at a business with a financially complex business model (eg: most healthcare businesses, renewables, tech enabled services like Uber). In those companies, figuring out an economic model that is sustainable and scalable is a huge part of the battle and you add tremendous value in enabling the creation of a new offering. It’s extremely hard, slow, and often times fails, but it is intellectually stimulating. 

I have definitely felt the same way talking to some of my friends in STEM fields. I know people who studied frontier fields in college and they’re fairly likely to make a serious contribution just given how new their field of research is. It’s such a different equation compared to the total impact of a career in investment management. I think you’re fortunate to have a friend group in such varied industries. I have a lot of interests outside of finance, and while I enjoy my work my strongest interests aren’t finance but the arts, history, and science. It’s what I read about to take my mind off work and I enjoy that those topics aren’t ’corrupted’ for me by trying to earn money from them. They can remain purely intellectual and enjoyable. Staking out time to read the occasional non-financial industry journal or newsletter could make those dinner chats more enjoyable. I love the idea of doing a ‘salon’ to share expertise among a group. Even just a talking point or two about something you read could make you feel more engaged and learn how your friends approach the same topics from their background. You don’t need to be a complete expert to be interested in the conversation. Could be just as valuable to your friend group that you’re at the table listening, enjoying their company, and learning about things they’ve devoted as much time to as you’ve invested in learning finance and investing.

It’s not like bringing a knife to a gunfight, it’s like bringing a spoon.

who cares

I'm just trying to earn some bread for my family 

The politics and BS someone in academia has to deal with is more than someone at a good PE fund deals with imo.  You get promoted, tenure, advancement etc by publishing papers in prestigious publications and pulling in grant money.  When the scoreboard is less defined (vs PE where getting a 3x+ MOIC means you are a "winner"), politics and bureaucracy become more entrenched parts of the game. 

Grass is greener ~~

As someone from medicine...medicine, law & finance are all just professional services. I wouldn't say it's super intellectual - just that it requires a lot more studying and a lot more school. I always thought finance had a larger impact on the world because of tangible impacts on the economy (allocating capital toward worthy ventures)

Wouldn't say finance is trivial. As someone having a quarter life crisis but in a different industry - I would not say medicine is "more intellectually fulfilling" or a "real tangible intellectual feat". And even the most altruistic people get worn down over the years re. "emotionally fulfilling". I think people just get bored after a long time in one industry but don't realise how good they have it.

I will say this though - many medicine people really do believe in their higher calling and are genuinely altruistic people - and don't care that much about money. I know a lot of people who could grab 2-3x their current salary in private but don't move because "they don't feel a need to/want to serve in public/don't want fee-for-service to interfere with medical practice". So don't just trash doctors for being 'morally superior', many of them don't see it hte same way.

It's not you and it's not them, just find other things to talk about over dinner lmao

If your pe stint has been filled with "thrills" and "adrenaline" maybe I'm in the wrong gig

this guy gets no pussy

It always seems fulfilling on the other side. You see them working really hard producing research and probably not making as much money (this is an assumption so could be wrong). They see you working hard, making money, while they work hard and earn less.

I know plenty of people miserable in both finance and academia. If you want to participate in dinner talk, maybe try to learn a bit about what it is they’re interested in. You’ll benefit by just keeping up in their convos. At the end of the day, find something fulfilling for you. Maybe it’s time to start moving roles where you can feel fulfilled

nerd

move to a macro hf

*proceeds to leave the dinner in a BMW to cry in his Manhattan apartment knowing that his $25M net worth and carry isn't as satisfying as publishing academic papers on how a guy in 1860 got a math theorem wrong, and the correct answer is the following one explaiend in 230 pages

life sucks, indeed 

If they're pontificating just pour yourself a wine, cocktail or grab a beer and let everyone blow their air. If they're talking about things they've actually done, be excited for them and ask questions.  My close friends who are in medicine are not blowhards on intellectual heady topics.  The conversations are about something they're actually doing, it's easy, and I'm just happy that their work is meeting their passion. Not hard to participate and no one is trying to impress each other.  And most of the time everyone is shooting it around normal everyday conversation because we all get enough of what we do every single day of our lives for a living and enjoy talking about other things.

Honestly, you could be in a circle/measuring contest conversation on who has the most intellectual firepower and these folks are simply peacocking or mirroring each other.  Don't worry about it, you have a heaps worth of business experience and understanding of how to do things in a commercial world.  Be genuine and be confident in yourself.  Just ask them more questions, and if they ask you about your opinion, be honest if you have one or just say, I honestly don't know much about that field so I don't have one.

Sometimes its in vogue for 20 somethings or others to try to flex that way.  I can recalls somewhat similar feelings out of thinking I'm out of my depths in similar group settings when younger, but honestly I've seen the same people later in life and couldn't care less now if I found myself in the same position again.

I speak with my friends about what chicks they're banging or what drugs we're taking on our next party

One of us will save the world one day lol

Academic pursuits and even medicine are rarely pushing boundaries. Most theorists are fine in the classroom - throw their ass into a real work environment and they crumble and cannot execute on basic tasks.  Quants can be interesting people to talk to, but it is a different game they are playing.  I took a full year of quantum mech in college, it was interesting but I do not want to practice it or discuss it at dinner.  
 

put it this way, you will make enough money to be able to go back and get a PhD in whatever you wanted and study what you wish if you really want to down the road. 
 

I don't see anything dumb about making a lot of money. Most academics, barring the few that crossover into the industry, spend a lot of time delving into minutiae, which ends up paling in comparison to the great luminaries in their respective fields. You should feel proud of what you have accomplished in PEl; it's not accomplishable by most. 

The intellectuals are broke. You can retire early with millions. You win.

Many angry comments from people here. Not sure why. 
Truly when I was younger I really enjoyed hearing medicine, engineers and academics speak about the topics they were passionate in, as many wanted to solve issues of tomorrow. As others mentioned one of the keys of finance professional as you get older is to soak up information and gain a breadth of knowledge and to put that knowledge into results.

That said as you get older you will see many of these intellectual fields lack practicality and run inefficient. Many times you will see someone who is brilliant at research has no idea how to motivate/manage people as an example. Let’s not even start that most physicians are the worst investors and risk takers known to man. 
So what you may see as “dumbing down” is more about building a skillet to find practical solutions and results end of the day theory can only go so far. 
 

Comparison is the thief of joy

Generally agree with this. Part of what I like about the job is being around super smart and intellectual people and having intellectual conversations, even if about deals and deal merits. However, that's not the bread and butter of the job and what gets people paid - it's finding good opportunities and executing on them / getting them done. A lot is process. A lot is rinse and repeat. But also, a good part of doing this job is the money so yes, you might be trading off some level of fulfillment / intellectual progression for a paycheck.

Second, you're probably slightly undervaluing the intellect that goes into what you're doing. If you spoke about what you were doing the way your friends spoke about what they were doing, they would probably come away thinking that what you're doing is fairly complicated and takes brainpower.

Also worth mentioning, not a lot of people talk about the crap parts of the job - administrative processes, grant proposals for research money, etc. 

Look OP, it sounds as though you're questioning your choices due to the fact that you are way above the average intellectual median. If you take a deep look in the mirror and figure that you're sharp enough to contribute to meaningful breakthroughs in medicine or tech, then candidly, yes, you took the easy way out. To grossly oversimplify, aside from the exceptionally brilliant and greedy, finance isnt the field to work in if you are in the top 1-2% of the IQ spectrum. Simply put, what we do doesn't move the needle of extending the longevity of human existence, or materially improving the lives of millions of humans across the globe.

To use a basic analogy, finance workers have much more in common with warehouse employees at Amazon than we do with the brilliant minds discovering and developing new biologics that will transform the way we fight or live with diseases. Every form of M&A at its core is a basic service, whether you are a sell-side banker, a mere Corp Dev acquirer, or a PE fund partner looking to scale your platforms. Our service is valuable and important in the sense that not everyone can do it, but it ultimately has no material implications for improving human life quality / longevity.  

If you are half as smart as you allude too, you have likely created a sizeable net worth at this point, and are contemplating what to do with the next step of your life. If you are serious about it, make a meaningful change and contribute to something that actually matters. 

I say this with the utmost respect.. but if you allow your feeling of adequacy to come from your career, and your ability to talk about Stats and what not... you have things to work on within yourself. This should not allow you to feel how you feel.