It's obvious that MS M&A, GS TMT...etc is extremely competitive. But how does one actually get into such a group, given an offer at such a bank?
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there is like a training program before you start to work
you get some grades when you complete these courses additionally there is an opportunity to network with different groups
obviously strongest groups lobby for the candidates with best performance and for those that they liked the most the decision can also be based on your previous experiences/connections at the bank - summer analyst stint for example
does this answer your question?
Getting into a top group typically involves a combination of: strong/proactive networking, alumni connections, prior relevant experience (i.e. tech banking at another bank as a sophomore gets you a leg up for GS TMT), and personality (if you're a stud, people will like you at that sell day).
APAE has it right, for the most part. At some banks, however, they don't do a sell day. In those instances, the strongest candidates for certain groups are often those who take the time to go into the offices and meet with the group. I would say that 90% of the emphasis is placed on fit and 10% is actual experience in the space. For instance, GS TMT cares far more about whether you're a cool person than whether you've had tons of relevant experience in tech/telecom. At the end of the day, you're 21 years old - it's not like your relevant experience is going to count for much anyway. Really, the people who are comfortable talking about themselves and presenting a compelling story in a relaxed manner are the ones with the best shot at getting into certain groups. This also means that grades/school are relatively irrelevant at this stage in the process. So GS TMT would much rather take a kid with a 3.6 from say Georgetown who's cool to spend time with/intellectually curious rather than his more awkward counterpart from Wharton with a 3.9.
Resurfacing this old thread -
Does the group placement process differ for associates coming out of B-school compared to analysts? Thanks
Depends on bank. GS has a sell day after SA and then they place you. You will return to that group if you get an offer in most cases. MS has an Associate pool where you are a generalist for your first year.
Thanks. I assume for boutiques everyone is placed before starting?
Also, somewhat new to IB lingo - Do people use SA for Summer Associate and Summer Analyst interchangeably?
group placement at GS/MS (Originally Posted: 02/07/2011)
Anyone know how group placement works at these two firms? Is it just a sell day? Do you get placed into groups before or after accepting the offer?
MS will give you a sheet with all groups and you list your top 5. If lucky you get your first choice, dont know about M&A in the US.
In London you often interview with a specific teams at GS so it would already be predetermined where you would end up. Otherwise they might have a similar thing as MS
interested in this as well... for NY, do you know what group at GS you're going to be in before you accept the offer?
BB group placement process (Originally Posted: 01/23/2008)
Can anyone (preferrably current analysts) comment on their experiences with the group placement process? Did you guys get the group of your choice? or top three choices? If so, did you have to reach out to the groups prior to training in order to secure your group placement? Any advice is greatly appreciated!!
I can't speak from first hand experience, but I know that the process varies by bank. At Bear, my friend was in the rotational program and got 2 of his top 3 choices, but the 3rd rotation was one of his middle choices.
Unless you are given an offer for a specific group within a bank (which not all banks will do), the process generally functions as a series of meet and greats. So, you meet a bunch of people before and while you start interviewing and start forming a view on whether or not you like what they do, and they about it you would be good in their group. Then either during, or a few months before training, the bank will have a series of networking events where you meet with all the groups and they meet with you. After this point every ranks who they want, the groups tend to just make a list of everyone they want and you will give a list of the groups you like. Some banks will let you rank your preferences, some will not.
At this point, a few people from HR initiate the black box whereby they balance ranking, how much they like a group, if the group got screwed over last year, etc,etc,etc. At the end of the day, you wind up in some completely random group, as long as you ranked it.
Personally, I got my last choice, but it ended up being a decent fit with good exit opps. Just because you didn't get the group you wanted or whatever doesn't mean anything, you have no idea what you want, or are qualified for, until about 4 months into the job.
Is it advisable to reach out to the groups before training (w/o being annoying)? Anyone familiar with how UBS place their analysts. A buddy of mine got screwed over last year and got end up in a second tier group.
depends on the firm. bottom line is that you can't go wrong simply networking and meeting as many people as early as possible in your desired groups. once you have your offer, speak to alums who are analysts to learn about groups. ask to come down - on your own dime - to meet a few people in different groups. stay in touch with a few.
GS/MS hired into groups. C placed based on meet and greets, but ultimately the scores on your accounting finance test at the end of the training. some groups literally gave winks to analysts only to say, you didn't score above a 93 which was the floor for our group - sorrrrrrrrry. ubs has a resume book where the groups pick from based on your rankings.
That was really helpful!! Thanks analyst 2007
Analyst Group Selection / Deal Experience (Originally Posted: 08/03/2007)
Hey guys,
I'll be starting as a full-time analyst in 2 wks. The bank I'm joining does not have a generalist program but instead places incoming analysts directly into industry/product groups. Considering that I will be working with my assigned group for about 18 months, I'd really like to ensure I get the best possible experience (M&A group for this bank). Normally, HR would have us list our top/bottom 3 groups and then assign us based on that info....but this time around, there's been no mention of that. Would you recommend emailing some of my contacts in the M&A group and perhaps HR to express my interest in joining the team? If so, what points do you think I should try to hit in the email to improve my chances of getting in with them?
My other question relates more to the work environment/competitiveness aspect of working with a bank. I interned at a boutique last summer in what was a very collegial environment. However, I've heard that things can get really competitive among analysts at the bigger banks. Do you have any insight on how to push for the best deals/experience without upsetting your other coworkers or coming across as a complete try-hard?
Thanks alot.
anyone?
anyone?
Who cares about coming off as a "try-hard?" It's your career. You can still be friends with other analysts while doing the most work.
Group selection advice for full-time analyst (Originally Posted: 03/17/2007)
I'm going to be starting at a BB full time this summer and I was wondering if anyone has any advice for selecting a group. I didn't do a summer in banking so I don't really have any experience/exposure to the industry and I'm a bit confused about what I should be thinking about. I don't want to get stuck in a group that's the wrong fit but I'm not sure how I should be evaluating the options. What are some things I should be considering? Right now I'm leaning more towards an industry than a product group because it seems like the work would be more interesting, but again I'm not sure. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
Depends first on your own personal interests, second on the bank's strength/reputation in particular groups (GS is strong in TMT, MS is strong in Tech/Sponsors/RE, CS is strong in Sponsors, etc.), and third on the culture of the guys in the group.
These variables are not listed in order of importance, as different people will have different views on which matter the most.
Are you particularly interested in a certain industry? Do you have a specific exit opportunity in mind? Is your bank extraordinarily strong in a certain area?
Usually these are the three questions people ask, and then after assembling a list of groups you go in and meet people. I think it's important that you take this final step, as your third choice might shoot up to number one after you meet the people you'll be working for.
could someone tell me how the group selection process actually works? (UBS for me and other banks for other readers)
has anyone took part in the process of choosing incoming analysts for their group?
Group Selection For Analysts (Originally Posted: 02/13/2007)
Hey guys,
I'm guessing this probably differs by bank, but when do they usually ask you to select your top 3 groups? I got my offer way back in October but haven't heard a whole lot from the bank since.....
is this the way it usually works? Would I be right to say that they're just ridiculously busy and dont have time to keep us in the loop until after graduation?
Thanks
Depends on the firm. Some give group specific offers and many wait until training so you can meet people from each group.
Yeah, during training there will be many happy hours where you will meet all the groups. You will choose afterwards.
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