Columbia ($$) vs. Wharton ($)
Hi all,
I am fortunate enough to receive admissions offers and partial scholarships from both Columbia Business School and Wharton, but Columbia is giving about $50k more. (I would say the Wharton scholarship is on the smaller side).
Given the following, where do you suggest I go?
-My post-MBA goal is private debt / distressed debt investing. I have some relevant pre-MBA experience (think investment grade structured lending) but not LevFin/RX/M&A and would need as much help as I can get from career services and the school brand/network.
-I don't mind living in Philly at all. High cost of living in NYC is also a non-factor. So Philly and NYC are equal in terms of where I want to live for the next 2 years.
-I think networking and interviewing would be easier and more effective if I was actually based in NYC. Having to commute from Philly to NYC could take a lot of time and energy that is better spent on networking and preparing for interviews. Thoughts on this?
-I will be an intl student and can't do an internship while in school, so I don't get the benefit of being in NYC in this particular context.
-People at Wharton will likely be smarter and more accomplished, which is obviously good overall. But this is a double-edged sword because it also means that I will have stronger competition for jobs (at least the ones posted through the career center). People don't talk about this much, but I think it is a real issue. The competition at CBS may not be as tough and I may have an easier time standing out in recruiting.
I am more excited about going to Wharton (perhaps subconsciously because of the better name), but don't want to make the wrong decision. Also, Columbia's extra $50k is not a HUGE deal, but it is something and I would of course prefer to not leave that $$ on the table if it would be equally easy (or hard) for me to achieve my post-MBA goal from either of these schools.
Appreciate and look forward to your comments!
Wharton hands down. No brainer. Columbia is on a drastic decline. It's reputation is imploding among employers.
Thanks!
Don't listen to those BS.
If you want to do public investing, there is no better school than CBS other than H/S. Wharton does have a slightly better overall reputation but CBS has a much better investing program. I know several people choose CBS over Wharton because they want to do public investing. CBS also offers distressed investing class taught by the partner at Owl Creek Asset Management, which is probably unique among all top bschools. As I mentioned many times in other threads, CBS is the only top bschool who has a structured approach to teach students investing (not only by lecture).
Many international students do school year internship so it is not a big problem. Actually, you probably need one before looking for summer job because you don't have direct relevant experiences.
Lastly, it is pretty ridiculous to think that you will have advantages in CBS while having disadvantages in Wharton. There is no material difference between the quality of student body between two schools or among non-HS M7 schools. Moreover, the classmates who are going to compete with you for investing jobs have the best profile within CBS student body (think BB/PE/HF analyst).
tl;dr: both schools are great. Pick Wharton for overall reputation and pick CBS for the best learning resource of public investing.
To the OP: 50k comes out to half that in this case due to the difference in COL between the two, so I wouldn't use that for your decision. I personally think one of the big advantages of CBS is that so many people are able to get those PT jobs at funds that other schools can't offer. But those aren't available to you either. But CBS is without a doubt the better school for public investing (and has a better rep in that space). The clout and network of the value investing program is awesome.That said, Wharton is the overall better school and if you decide that maybe PE is right for you, then it would be a no brainer (Wharton may be the best school for PE). Also your point about more competition for jobs is pretty silly. At all non H/S M7s the student bodies are basically interchangeable.
I think in the end you should base your decision on where you felt/feel you fit better when you visit(ed) the schools and met the students. If you are significantly happier at one than other, you'll likely thrive and perform better at that school too. I can't stress enough how much people downplay that aspect of the process in these threads and how foolish that is. Also the amount of splitting hairs over rankings that don't matter in your actual career does nothing but cloud the decision making process and distract from the things that do actually matter.
Good luck.
This is a very strong statement that I would hesitate to make. I had to make the same decision between CBS and Wharton MBA one year ago. I am not pursuing a career in distressed debt investing, but instead a career in public equities investing. While obviously very different careers, I think sharing my experience could be helpful. I chose Wharton after speaking with individuals working in IM across the US and haven't looked back since. Wharton is an outstanding school for pursuing all areas of IM. Nearly everyone I know with an interest in IM has been successful in their career search. Have you reviewed the career reports from both schools? https://statistics.mbacareers.wharton.upenn.edu/full-time/
While not the same field as you, I found that IM employers look upon Wharton very favorably. Specifically, the large mutual funds like Fidelity, MFS, Eaton Vance, T. Rowe Price, etc. and hedge funds like Citadel, Davidson Kempner, MatlinPeterson, etc. all hired Wharton students full-time and for summer internships this past year. While I can't speak to the experience at CBS, I have been very impressed with Wharton's career resources especially as a career switcher. Of course, this is just my personal experience and not a broad sample. Both programs are outstanding. Congratulations!
Why do you constantly just sputter out shit posts on a daily basis?
Who gives a fuck about your opinion?
Hahaha, while Wharton higher ranked and marginally better I would argue the trend is actually the reverse and Wharton is in decline with Columbia on the rise.
For what its worth I went to Sloan.
Thank you all! CBS' value investing program is undoubtedly awesome, but I'm not looking to do public equities investing post MBA. My goal is private / mezzanine / distressed debt, which imo is more akin to PE.
Other posters have already provided you good responses, I want to know the reason why you think that as an international student you will not be able to do internships while in school?
From what I understand, international students can work in the US for up to 1 year on something called optional practical training (OPT) that comes with their student (F-1) Visa. However, if I use this up during school then I cannot use it for my post-MBA job, which would create a big problem for me because the work (H-1B) Visa start date wouldn't kick in until later. I am definitely in the process of confirming this assumption with current intl students at CBS though.
Thanks!!
I dont think that is how F1 and OPT works. International students on F1 can go for a paid internship via CPT (only after spending 9 months or 2 semesters of your program). Once you graduate, you can work for 12 months via OPT (and beyond if you convince your employer to sponsor you under H1B).
If international students would not have been allowed to intern, most of them would not come to USA for MBA as internships are the usual path to getting FT offers for many international graduates.
Talk to international students' office / department at Wharton/CBS (wherever you decide to go) and see how they will guide/help you in this regard.
Many HF/PE school year internships are unpaid and hence don't even need working authorization (via school credit or something. It is a gray area).
If you want to get paid or be safer, you need to get CPT. The rule of CPT/OPT is, if you do full-time CPT (like summer internship) more than 12 months, you can't do OPT after graduation. You can as much as part-time CPT (like school-year internship) as you like without worrying about OPT.
In terms of PE/HF, CBS does have a much stronger public investing program than PE but distressed investing is kinda in the middle. Also the chance to get into MF PE is pretty slim from CBS so don't bet on that. Although I doubt without prior PE experience you can get upper MM or MF PE job from any business schools including HBS.
quant_finance for internships, you will use CPT.
OPT doesnt kick off until after graduation
as said above, wharton hands down
Thanks! Do you mind disclosing whether you are affiliated with either of these schools?
I would reach out to some students in the value investing program at CBS. They recruit very well into all kind of buyside roles, including distressed debt. It's somewhat of a myth that the value investing program is only valuable for public markets. Several of my friends did the program before returning to places like Carlyle.
You can definitely intern during the school year at CBS as an international student. Plenty of my international classmates did. Why do you think you can't intern? Have you talked to international students or any students in investing at CBS? These internships are a big advantage for recruiting.
I would not base this decision on money. Talk to more students who are recruiting for these roles and choose a school that is the best fit for you and your career goals.
I do not see Carlyle in CBS' employment report. Are you suggesting that your friend got hired into Carlyle from CBS?
Are you questioning whether CBS students get these jobs? The guy I mentioned worked at Carlyle before and after. With respect to hiring, another friend my year (2014) got an offer at Carlyle, without having interned there, and turned it down to take on a bigger opportunity (faster partner track,etc). The majority my classmates with PE experience ending up going to L/S funds after school though.
As for internships, I can confirm that within the last few years, many of my international classmates interned at funds in NYC. Most school year fund internships are unpaid, as noted above, so it's a nonissue from a paperwork standpoint.
As for post-MBA hiring, on the buyside it's always going to based on your experience prior to business school. Interning at a fund during school is a great way to step up a level or two. PM if you want more detail.
“Wharton > CBS” is not without reservation. I would admit the FT ranking put Wharton above CBS and CBS’s building is not what you expect from an ivy. However, location is an enormous factor. Living in NYC would provide you unparallel networking and internship opportunities. Moreover, presence of HFs and PEs at CBS’s recruitment is incredible, more so when you consider just mezzanine/ distressed investing shops. You cannot go wrong with either of the two choices, but I would still recommend CBS. Congrats on the two offers.
I would hate for someone to turn down money....but this is Wharton. No matter how prestigious Columbia is........Wharton is Wharton.
Does anyone know if Wharton students have the opportunity to do school-year internships? Are these facilitated through the school job board, like at CBS?
I am assuming you are asking about the 2Y program. Yes, that is what the adcom told me during my campus visit in Nov 15. You get to do your internships and these are facilitated by the career center at Wharton.
Refer to https://mba.wharton.upenn.edu/program-details/ . There is a 3.5 month internship period marked off for internship after the first year.
My question was about school-year internships, i.e. internships you can do in the fall/spring semesters while classes are in the session. Lots of CBS students are able to do these because of the NYC location. Firms based in NYC regularly post on CBS' job board for unpaid/paid internship opportunities DURING the school year. I'm interested in finding out if school-year internships are somehow available to Wharton students as well.
This isn't even close. Fearing competition is particularly misguided.
CBS is a very good choice.
But Wharton is the better choice in every aspect for you.
.
Hey there - where else did you apply and get in?
.
hey quant_finance, where did you choose in the end? I have very similar situation with you now.
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