Consulting Euro-Style

I'm trying to gather a little info on getting in to Management Consulting in Europe (as an American), specifically at the MBBs/big Euro shops. Most people can't help because of the Euro part, so if you are familiar with it, your expertise is especially appreciated here. Don't worry--no hours/pay/exit opp questions--please help.

My situation: I really want to travel and see the world/Europe, even live abroad for a few years, but do not want to sacrifice my early career to do so. Lived in US my whole life, although I have been to Europe a few times, including a summer study abroad in Spain. Rising senior, solid resume, native English speaker, and pretty advanced spanish-speaker, but I can't honestly say I'm completely fluent (in spanish). I also have a decent interest in international business/finance. Eventually though, I want to settle down back in the states.

So-- I figured consulting in Europe for a few years might be a perfect solution, especially if I could get into an MBB or other good office abroad. I still get off to a great career start, and in this case, the traveling nature of consulting would actually be a plus, since I want to see as much as possible. I could spend 2-3 years working and traveling, and then come back to the US. Now, I'm sure it's very hard to get in, and that's where the questions start:

  1. How hard is it for Americans to get hired by these offices? Is it possible?
    I'm sure London happens, but as stated below, I'm more interested in Continental Europe.

  2. What are language skill requirements like? In what locations could I meet language requirements? (re: speak English and decent Spanish that hopefully I could improve before starting)

London is not at the top of my list of desired locations (too similar to US and been there before), but I am open to almost any Euro city that could fit my language skills. Some places I was thinking were Spain, Switzerland, Amsterdam, Prague, Germany, Sweden, and others I'm forgetting. I know that language will rule me out of plenty of these, but any help identifying possible language fits would be very helpful..

  1. How would one go about contacting and applying to these places to actually get a shot?
    Obviously I don't have many contacts, and I'm assuming the online apps alone for places like the MBBs would be useless, especially since I'm out of their country.

  2. I noticed on McKinsey's site that some Euro offices require a masters degree to be hired, but others don't. Is this standard in certain places and not others?

Thanks again for any insight--I really can't find much info on this anywhere else. Feel free to PM if you don't want anything public.

 

I don't know all the answers, but I live in Europe.

1.dk 2. You need to be fluent in the language when working with customers from the same country(spanish, french etc.) English is ofcourse also important.

Personally i wouldn't go for sweden, to far away from everything. Amsterdam(near to where I live) is very interntational. English, for all dutch people, is a must. Spain, I would say are more towards their own language, just like Zwitserland. Although in the main hubs English gets spoken. Prague I don't know, wouldn't really go there either. Germany is very important, a lot of things going on there as it's like the "main" part of europe in economical sense.

  1. I don't know how to contact them, I haven't been through the process. But in Europe a lot is done via online applications.

  2. A lot of companies require a masters degree. This is completely different than in the US.

This was short, but if you want more info feel free to ask

 

Yea dude, in general A LOT of companies in Europe require masters degrees. You're probably better off starting your career in MBB in the US, get your MBA after 3-4 yrs, then get into a MBB continental Europe office post MBA. Getting a job in Europe is especially hard if you're not from the Euro zone to begin with, very finicky guys

Still I Rise
 
Best Response
  1. You're simply competing with the candidates in the geographies you want to work in, which are likely the same calibre as in the US or even better, given that IBD is much less of an alternative in Germany, France, Spain etc for most. You'll need to be completely fluent in the language i.e. comfortable in challenging a DAX CEO on his strategy. Bar German probably woulnd't suffice for that.

  2. As discussed you need full fluency. You can certainly operate speaking English only in Germany but this will not really help in forming good relationships with partners/clients etc, which is essential for career progression, and this point is likely much considered by HR when recruiting candidates.

  3. Are you in college now? I guess you could do OCR and flag you're interested in another country. They should channel you the right way.

  4. Prob different by country, I'd check. I think generally the large strategy firms in Germany have just gotten round to accepting BAs as well, but see for yourself.

 
  1. London is your best bet. There are many Americans working here, the MBB I work at recruits MBAs in the US through OCR specifically for the London office. Work permits don't seem to be a problem. It's much harder in continental Europe

  2. Generally you need to speak the language of the country you work in. It's less important in the Netherlands, Belgium, Luxemburg and the Nordic countries. I would rule out France, Italy, Germany, Portugal, Czech Republic and CEE. Depending on the level of your Spanish, Spain could be a possibility as recruiters know that one can learn a language extremely quickly when forced to but you would be at a serious disadvantage during recruiting. That said, I was hired in one of the countries listed above as a "no-go" with only basic knowledge of the language, worked there for 2 years and did well. I was always staffed on travelling cases. It's possible but it's extremely rare.

  3. Networking in Europe is not as important as in the US - of course it works but is pretty much limited to family and friends. I'm from Europe and the idea of contacting/being contacted by random people you've never met still seems bizarre to me. On-line applications don't go to a black hole, you still have a chance. I've met a lot of people who simply applied online and were succesful.

  4. In continental Europe it's very common to do a Masters degreed immediately after undergraduate. Keep in mind that the distinction between Bachelor and Master is relatively new in Europe. We used to have 4-year Master degrees which were then splited into 3-year bachelor and 2-year master. Bachelor is not considered proper higher education by many people. However, it shouldn't affect you too much since everyone knows it's different in the US and your degree will be perceived differently. I also met people who only have European bachelor and work at MBB.

I hope that helps. A few more points: - It seems to me that you're underestimating how challenging it is to work in an environment where everyone speaks a language you don't understand. You might do all your work in English (as in writing presentations, talking to clients etc) but you will be excluded from most of the social interactions. You won't be able to form very good relationships with your colleagues and clients. It will most likely affect your career. Sure, (most) people will be nice and friendly but you will be the outsider. If you want to be successful in the country of your choice you need to learn the language and get the feel for the culture really quickly. While the first one is hard but achievable the second one can be next to impossible, depending on the country and your personality. It's what made me eventually transfer to London even though initially I wasn't interested in it. I'm much happier now.

  • Why are you so set on continental Europe? When you're travelling as a consultant you don't get to go sightseeing. All you see is the hotel, client's office and fancy restaurants. You know nothing about the country you work in. Sure, you can stay for the weekend but you could as well work from the local office and take weekend trips, Flights in Europe are very cheap. You can live anywhere on the continent and still get the same (or more varied!) travelling experience, no matter if you're staffed on travelling cases or not.
 
Enid:
1. London is your best bet. There are many Americans working here, the MBB I work at recruits MBAs in the US through OCR specifically for the London office. Work permits don't seem to be a problem. It's much harder in continental Europe
  1. Generally you need to speak the language of the country you work in. It's less important in the Netherlands, Belgium, Luxemburg and the Nordic countries. I would rule out France, Italy, Germany, Portugal, Czech Republic and CEE. Depending on the level of your Spanish, Spain could be a possibility as recruiters know that one can learn a language extremely quickly when forced to but you would be at a serious disadvantage during recruiting. That said, I was hired in one of the countries listed above as a "no-go" with only basic knowledge of the language, worked there for 2 years and did well. I was always staffed on travelling cases. It's possible but it's extremely rare.

  2. Networking in Europe is not as important as in the US - of course it works but is pretty much limited to family and friends. I'm from Europe and the idea of contacting/being contacted by random people you've never met still seems bizarre to me. On-line applications don't go to a black hole, you still have a chance. I've met a lot of people who simply applied online and were succesful.

  3. In continental Europe it's very common to do a Masters degreed immediately after undergraduate. Keep in mind that the distinction between Bachelor and Master is relatively new in Europe. We used to have 4-year Master degrees which were then splited into 3-year bachelor and 2-year master. Bachelor is not considered proper higher education by many people. However, it shouldn't affect you too much since everyone knows it's different in the US and your degree will be perceived differently. I also met people who only have European bachelor and work at MBB.

I hope that helps. A few more points: - It seems to me that you're underestimating how challenging it is to work in an environment where everyone speaks a language you don't understand. You might do all your work in English (as in writing presentations, talking to clients etc) but you will be excluded from most of the social interactions. You won't be able to form very good relationships with your colleagues and clients. It will most likely affect your career. Sure, (most) people will be nice and friendly but you will be the outsider. If you want to be successful in the country of your choice you need to learn the language and get the feel for the culture really quickly. While the first one is hard but achievable the second one can be next to impossible, depending on the country and your personality. It's what made me eventually transfer to London even though initially I wasn't interested in it. I'm much happier now.

  • Why are you so set on continental Europe? When you're travelling as a consultant you don't get to go sightseeing. All you see is the hotel, client's office and fancy restaurants. You know nothing about the country you work in. Sure, you can stay for the weekend but you could as well work from the local office and take weekend trips, Flights in Europe are very cheap. You can live anywhere on the continent and still get the same (or more varied!) travelling experience, no matter if you're staffed on travelling cases or not.

Excellent post. I can only reiterate the points made here.

 

Thanks for all the info everyone. A few things:

I've heard of Americans working (not in consulting) in Germany etc. who say that English is all you need to get by in most of these places..so is it mainly just consulting that has these language requirements?

Also, good point on the social language aspects, but in some of these places (Amsterdam, Switzerland, etc), isn't english pretty commonly spoken outside of work? Also, I would figure that after a few months of complete immersion, one could pick up the local language well enough to get by, especially if really trying to get better.

As for why continental Europe, I guess a lot of it was just because England doesn't interest me as much as those countries. Mainly because I've been there several times, but also because I feel it is the most similar to the US in many ways, and living in London seems similar to living in NYC (which I'm not interested in either). Also, I figured that being based in London would mean that you don't travel much to continental Europe since those countries all have their own offices with local/language expertise. In the end, I guess you're probably right about consulting travel being all work and leaving no time to see the sights, so maybe some kind of corporate or AM job in Europe would better fit my travel goals..

 

I don't know if it's only consulting that requires the language requirements, but you will you always feel more comfortable when you know the language used in that country.

What you say about Amsterdam isn't completely true. Yes a lot of english gets spoken, but mainly by tourists. The general language is dutch. In businesses you'll get by speaking english, because most of the work is international if in a big company.

I know people who have been here several years (10+) who still don't speak the language, but also people who have been here far shorter that do speak the language, or al least make an effort. Your right on the point that you'll learn a language when you're in the country, especially when your really trying to get better. That said, when your working all day, it's not like you'll want to grab your study books in the evening.

I disagree with London and New York being the same. I was on vacation to NYC a couple of weeks ago and it was absolutely amazing, not just the city, but also the way people are. It was like a culture shock, compared to Holland at least. When going to London I don't have the same thing. The absolute city of London is nice though, and Mayfair;)

 

I know guys at McK from the US who work at non-english native countries. You just got to have the right motivation to ensure you are at same grounds as 'local' applicants.

 

Your best bet is to start at MBB in the States, become a rockstar, and then ask for an office transfer or go for the third year program. This wouldn't kill your career really, because it's all still pre-MBA, you'll be able to get back to the States when you want (it's much harder to start abroad and come here).

The better question is one about the realities- you'll mainly be seeing office buildings and hotels, and traveling/doing studies abroad while working in the US isn't that hard. I've got friends who got enough skymiles and who are on a three month trip around the world.

The other fact which you may not realize: at least at my company, European offices are known for having brutal hours (100hr week) and less of a friendly atmosphere than US offices. Combine this with a lack of fluency and it may make the experience less than you'd hope.

As to the language- you should be conversationally fluent and ideally completely fluent to go to a foreign office- it's slightly easier if you're transferring for a year rather than applying there. To the degree point: not a big issue, they normally recognize the US bachelor.

 
expenseaccounts:
The other fact which you may not realize: at least at my company, European offices are known for having brutal hours (100hr week) and less of a friendly atmosphere than US offices. Combine this with a lack of fluency and it may make the experience less than you'd hope.

Excellent point. I would say more like 80-85hr/week but still, there is a HUGE difference between 65 and 85.

 

If you really want to have a good chance at working in a European country, I would look at doing the following:

Upon completion of undergrad, go teach english abroad in the country of your choice. You can do this by applying via the local embassies in your area. This is not always easy, but if you demonstrate an interest, you may have a shot.

In the meantime, network with people from MBB and other international strategy houses. Also, keep in touch with them every now and then over the course of the year via email and phone. Hopefully, during the course of your year aborad you are able to pick up on the culture and the language.

When it comes time to apply, be sure to apply and see if your contacts can pull some strings to have you interview at the European country where your located. They will only do this if you are a strong candidate.

I know of one American guy in our French office that did this. However he had already studied French for a couple of years before coming.

Another American I know pursued a masters in an international english-only program here in western europe where he also studied the local language and later applied to the local offices. Again, he had already studied the language for many years before coming. It is very difficult to pick up a language in a year unless you work VERY hard at it. The other way would be, as expenseaccounts puts it, be a "rockstar" where you work and request a transfer.

Best of luck.

 
consultingwiz07:
If you really want to have a good chance at working in a European country, I would look at doing the following:

Upon completion of undergrad, go teach english abroad in the country of your choice. You can do this by applying via the local embassies in your area. This is not always easy, but if you demonstrate an interest, you may have a shot.

In the meantime, network with people from MBB and other international strategy houses. Also, keep in touch with them every now and then over the course of the year via email and phone. Hopefully, during the course of your year aborad you are able to pick up on the culture and the language.

When it comes time to apply, be sure to apply and see if your contacts can pull some strings to have you interview at the European country where your located. They will only do this if you are a strong candidate.

I know of one American guy in our French office that did this. However he had already studied French for a couple of years before coming.

Another American I know pursued a masters in an international english-only program here in western europe where he also studied the local language and later applied to the local offices. Again, he had already studied the language for many years before coming. It is very difficult to pick up a language in a year unless you work VERY hard at it. The other way would be, as expenseaccounts puts it, be a "rockstar" where you work and request a transfer.

Best of luck.

May I follow up with a question that is slightly out of topic? Everybody's talking about networking...but I'm still wondering how can u regularly write emails or phone a person you have seen once in your life, or just emailed with, talkin' about...what?U may write once to ask information about the firm, about career suggestions..that's ok. But then after four months, you need to keep in touch...where do you start? General economy? recent big deals/changes in the business scenario? Maybe culturarly is very different from US, but in Europe - this is my perception - it would be perceived AT LEAST weird....! What are your thoughts on this?EU vs US?
 

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