Do you have to be aggressive and extroverted to suceed in banking?
The reason I ask is that most people I know who scored a summer internship in ib are the energetic, outgoing types who always manage to get super enthusastic on every little thing i.e. the ones who talk the most when in a group.
Many are also extremely aggressive and tactical in pursuing their career goals, having no moral dilemmas about bs'ing unverifiable extracirriculars on their resume and in interviews. In previous years, they even misrepresented themselves as penultimate year students (equivalent to junior years) to secure internships in firms with incompetent HR's and no doubt this experience has helped them secure an internship this summer, when they're actually penultimates and eligible for an internship.
I do not wish to start a discussion of whether the above is right or wrong from a moral perspective but I would like hear from current bankers on whether someone who is technically competent and hard working but has a humble, reserved, caring and rule abiding personality is likely to suceed (or even survive) in banking (only at the analyst and associate levels, I am aware MD's and VP's are the kings of charisma and relationship building).
Finally, is it worth the while of a humble type to attempt a 2 year analyst stint at all? (i.e. do all the exit ops such as PE and HF require you to be aggressive anyway). Or should one simply not bother with a banking career at all and become an accountant or doctor or something?
Thanks
I suggest you try to get an internship and find out for yourself.
Even if you can shadow someone for a day- an alum or contact.
At the very least, go to presentations by firms.
The only way to find out if you fit is to try it.
I couldn't get an internship, even though I thought I answered all the questions very well. Perhaps halfway through the interview the interviewer got a fair idea of my personality and thought "This guy is too nice, he's not going to make it."
I went to a lot of presentations and it's always a propaganda session. I've also spoken to bankers and none are, understandably, are willing to diss their own firm.
in my opinion, you will do yourself a favor if you would place yourself in the employers shoes. why should they hire you?
it is your job to put yourself in the best light possible...getting upset because you don't feel you marketed yourself well enough is fair, but if your credentials are good, you can still be a "nice guy" and get the job.
you just have to show a backbone and show that you are confident as well. too many "nice guys" lack self-confidence and then blame immorality for their lack of success. if you are confident but not arrogant and can market yourself well, that is what they want to see.
how are you going to pitch a mediocre business to a potential buyer if you aren't able to even sell yourself? think about the skills necessary to be successful in banking. 1) willingness to work like a dog 2) competent with #s, 3) detail oriented, 4) personable, etc.
now use examples / stories from your past to illustrate all of these traits and go into the interviews this fall and guide the interview toward those stories to show why you are the right guy for the job. remember show, don't tell.
This is it exactly. I'm thinking in particular of a very mild-mannered, soft-spoken, personable B-school professor of mine. Definitely not an "alpha-type" personality. But incredibly intelligent and a diligent worker. And likeable. And not afraid of being himself.
He was an M&A MD at two different BB's, went in-house corporate for awhile, then a boutique partner. Not too shabby.
Think about this -- if I were a client, I would take a presentation from him any day, rather than a pitch from some aggressive asshole from another bank on the street.
(The assholes get business too, though. It's not a perfect world.)
Thanks for the tips but the main inquiry of my post is not actually about how to get in, but whether one needs certain characteristics to suceed at banking, especially beyond the junior levels, and if not, whether those characteristics are nonetheless required for exit ops such as pe/hf.
Because there is certainly no point in doing a 2 year analyst stint if it does not prepare me for an attractive career path where someone of my character can excel in.
I'd say the biggest black marks are: unfriendly, odd, teetotaler. You don't have to be the exact opposite of those. You can be reserved, so long as you can carry on a conversation. You can be eccentric, provided it won't make you unbearable as a person. You can do everything in moderation, but you can't soapbox about the personal weaknesses of others.
Smart and hard-working, though, are the key features - no matter what, you need to have several of the elements of the type A overachiever, if not all. If you don't have them, you won't be able to deal with the people who do, and you'll get railroaded.
VPs and MDs are "kings of charisma and relationship building"? Are you on coke right now?
The average investment banker has below average social skill, and moving up the chain, the level of social ability declines while the frequency of nervous tics increases exponentially.
Do you remember in college when the double all-nighters made you socially retarded for a few days afterward? That was temporary, thankfully. However, two years of n-tuple all-nighters will have the same effect, but it will be permanent. The level of sleep deprivation one experiences as an analyst is enough to do permanent brain damage. I wish I were exaggerating here, but I'm not.
Corporate finance is hard-core client service and so you need to be steadfastly adherent to unrealistic deadlines and willing to work horrible hours to get the job done, perfectly and with no complaints. At the lower levels, this also means that you need to be adherent to authority, since you'll have no say on how you work or what you work on. At the upper levels, it means that you need to have a sociopathic lack of regard for the welfare of those under your command, since you'll be making them pull these all-nighters.
Just curious, exactly how many MDs and VPs do you socialize with on a daily basis?
I've met many and they're all different. Many have outstanding social skills. Your generalizations do not hold up.
Look, this is just a business, with human beings in it. You have to deal from time to time with deadlines, pressure, politics, and difficult people. Boo hoo. Work at McDonald's and you find the same thing. It's called life.
Do not listen to anything this guy says. He has never worked in IBD and never wants to, and for some reason has decided to infect this board with his anti-IB rants, in the same way that he has incessantly trolled at xoxohth.com/autoadmit.com for YEARS.
So how do MD's build and maintain client relationships if they're pricks?
What's wrong with being an A-type personality? There seems to be a general trend towards hiring them over the less outgoing types. They seem to fit in to the general banker mould more readily.
If you think you are more deserving of a position, and it sounds like you do, you need to make a case for it. How is your type of personality going to help the bank/group/MD/interviewer? If you have a difference, and it's obvious, you need to be able to put a spin on it and sell yourself.
Again I'm reasonably confident that with proper interview preparation I can land a position, but I'm just wondering whether someone of my mould should even bother at all with a career in banking, even if its just for a 2 year analyst stint? Is it possible for someone of my personality to be successful in the more senior levels of banking/pe/hf or will I likely become depressed and overwhelmed by the amount of politics and ruthlessness?
saturday night 2AM... enough said
you know if you can do it or not, simple as that.
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