Dumb ivy league kids
I've been working on projects too many times with some very very dumb classmates. Unfortunately, most came from certain demographics (not so much sex or race, but more like nationality or cultural background perhaps). It's not only lack of brains, but lack of work ethic. They just can't think, or don't bother to think. I am trying very hard not to judge, but my experience for the last four years convinced me that some people got into ivies because of favorable demographics. It's driving me crazy because I actually have to correct their work or do the stuff for them, and I already have enough on my own plate. I wonder whether I'll meet the same kind of people in banking!
Welcome to life. There were people like that where I worked last summer. I imagine there all people like that everywhere.
I can empathize with those who tried but faces inherent limitations. Dumb and Lazy? they don't have an excuse. They are not blonde. Lol.
Yes, you will encounter dumb and lazy people everywhere -- even in banking. They were probably once motivated, maybe in college (or else they were just extremely well-connected), but banking isn't particularly complicated and you don't have to be extremely smart to do well. I haven't seen much laziness on the 1st year analyst level though. I probably haven't worked with any yet.
In a good market, a lot of people get by just "meeting expectations". But, when layoffs happen (as they are now) and they have to resort to cutting people based on performance, they'll be at the top of the list.
Hahahaha. Has it dawned on you, Delirium2, that some of your classmates may view you in the same unfavorable light?
Also, not everyone is particularly interested in the coursework, maximizing their career prospects, or their jobs. While these people you mention may be dumb and lazy, they just may refuse to put forth necessary effort. Why? Because they don't care. Having ability and showing it are two different things.
I agree and disagree at the same time with you computerblue. SOme people are just dumb, and you can see it, they can't hold a conversation and usually have their mouth open in class with drool coming out of it. Others, as you say, just don't care, and in group situations might not apply themselves as much.
Remember, you will always be a salesman, no matter how fancy your title is. - My ex girlfriend
Erm no. those people I am referring to are dumb. period. It's not even about attitude. You just need 5 minutes of relevant conversation with a person to know whether he's dumb.
I come from a non-target big 10 school, and I've actually noticed that when I go into interviews, kids from target schools (ranging from Michigan to Harvard) aren't nearly as prepared. Not only that - but they also ask incredibly stupid questions - questions that HR should be answering, not MD's. I've always had the sense that they think they are entitled to a BB job, just because of the school they go to or the network they have.
I've noticed that kids from non-targets know that they aren't entitled to anything, which makes them work that much harder to get the interview/offer.
gellar- thats quite the generalization there...every met kids from wharton? those kids are fucking prepared and know their shit cold.
It's just some good old classic cope. I've found the complete opposite to be true, but I can't shit on non-target kids because it's pretentious or whatever.
Most of the kids from my high school who went to non-targets... room temperature IQ.
wharton's the exception though, those guys are built and trained for banking specifically.
the worst i'm encountered are all HYP kids who think they're the shit and in actual fact are either complete ignoramas or have their heads so far up their asses..
Well, I have met some HYP kids who are pretty impressive. But you are right, there a few handful that have inflated egos. But these kids are not even smart. They probably got in because of legacy or something like that.
Seriously, you puppets need to get real. There are going to be stupid, lazy people everywhere you go in life. It doesn't matter if it's Goldman or Federal Express. It's shitty, but you've gotta deal. Plus, if you work hard and are competent, you'll look that much better.
These generalizations about Ivy kids are ridiculous. Yeah, sometimes they are shitty, but the same can be said for kids from any other school. Sweeping generalizations are never a good thing.
Most of the kids going to IVY leagues are very smart. Whether they are lazy or not is a tottaly different issue. Also, I have noticed that schools that do not have an undergrad business program (harvard, chicago, duke, etc), thier students have a tough time with some accounting stuff, but thats just my 2cents
oh please. the amount of ivy-bashing that goes on on these boards borders on the ridiculous.
matter of fact, most of the kids from my school (top 10, non ivy, up there with the top feeders) who went into finance/consulting were actually folks from blue-collar or immigrant backgrounds. NOT people who got in through legacy or sports.
look at the top partners are the big pe firms and banks, a LOT are from HYP and other ivies. i guess they must've been the retards you meet on a regular basis. fact is, average quality of students at top schools is better than that at other schools. they select you based on objective measures of intelligence. these kids may not know jack shit about finance when they get in, but they learn fast and that's what matters.
plus, if they were so crappy at the job, banks wouldn't keep going back to these schools to recruit them. if a non-target business school keeps producing superstars, recruiters will notice. the world isn't as silly and aristocratic as you think. people are out to make money and find good talent anywhere. there will be retards and geniuses at every school. as odd as it may sound to you, most of the smartest kids in my grade didn't give a shit about banking or consulting. they could've easily gotten into wharton or the like and known their "shit cold". quite honestly, finance and consulting attract average students (and a smattering of above-average/top tier) at the top schools. the real superstars are going off and doing their own thing.
but whatever. there is great talent everywhere. i don't care where you came from, it's the depth of your thinking and the quality of your character that matters.
this is 100% true.
also - judging someone's capability by the college/university they went to is extremely subjective. alternatively, i believe it's pretty easy to gauge the intelligence of a person by simply speaking to them for a few minutes.
This is true. Unfortunately, most people on this forum are in denial about this statement. If you are the smartest at HYPWS you should be starting companies, not trying to maximize optionality as a risk-averse lemming.
Great comment CMonkey, I completely agree
Thats interesting... the HYP vs W comparison.
Do you think the environment at these schools breeds/cultivates this type of attitude? Or you the Wharton-type is more inclined to go to Wharton and the arrogant HYP-type is more inclined to go to HYP?
I've always perceived Wharton kids to be finance-cyborgs.... and HYP kids as blue blood prepsters.
these are old stereotypes.
hyp are filled with blue-collar strivers, international students, sons and daughters of immigrants and the like. it's an incredibly diverse group. sure, wasps are still the plurality, but their size and influence is steadily decreasing over time.
in my 4 years here, i've seen an ever more diverse class and increasing meritocracy.
it's nice how you label them the "arrogant HYP-type" without consideration. that's ok in everyone's book. but if someone says "retard non-target type" that's horrible of them. stereotypes and generalizations run both ways. there are some arrogant kids around, but most are very down to earth and many of the very-rich are even ashamed of their background. you could never tell how much the parents of some of these kids are worth: they don't want you to know.
i personally take a lot of umbrage at these comments because my friends and i are as far as humanly possible from "blue-bloods" or "arrogant privileged rich kids" whatever. most of us are sons and daughters of immigrants who worked hard and are trying to move up.
the kids who knew about "finance" and "investment banking" in high school liked wharton. as for me, i was a science geek. i wanted the liberal arts experience.
like i said before, it's all about talent and human capital and you can find that anywhere.
Relax. I knew someone was going to get all bent out of shape, should have included a disclaimer.
Stereotypes come from somewhere. Obviously they're not true on an individual basis, but they have formed because it is a trend. Bottom line is... there are more blue-bloods at H or Y or P than University of Ill, or U of Del, or Forham, or Pace, or BYU, or FSU, or WM, or any other school you can compare it with... thus... stereotype. If I meet someone from HYP, will I immediately assume they are arrogant blue-bloods.... no; but you need to wake up to reality if you think those schools dont already have that stigma associated with them.
FYI- just because ppl dont want you to know how much money their family has, doesn't mean they're ashamed of it.
Chill.
every stage in my life where i've been going into a scenario where i thought i would finally be surrounded by smart, motivated people has disappointed me so far. i'm sure banking will be the same environment. that's life.
I was like you, now I understand understand the meaning of the old adage "be careful what you wish for". The people in banking are a lot smarter than average, much more so than your typical class at university. They are also, on average, quite similar in many of their character traits as is required by the job. As a result you have a lot of people who as individuals are very smart and interesting people but as a collective actually end up being a bit boring and monotone. For that reason I try and make an effort, pretty unsuccessfully at the moment to be honest, to try and mix with other types of people when outside work.
i guess the bottom line is that there's a distribution of great people and complete f'tards anywhere. it's just more easy to be disappointed and sigh in disbelief when the f'tard's an elite schooler because the stereotype is that they should embody things that's right and good with the system (which they natural don't, but yea)
The "discussions" on this board are getting more pathetic by the day. No wonder I find myself coming here less and less...
agree monkey, at every school they are smart kids and dumb lazy kids, ratio of smart/dumb increases as prestige increases, thats it.
HYPS have tons of kids who aren’t incredibly bright because they admit on more than just brains alone (diversity, athletics, diversity, etc.). That stupid guy in your project group might be the captain of the hockey team. Or his grandpa donated a building.
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