I am screwed right? I feel terrible right now. What should I do now. Failed Quantitative trader in the making

Chill dude.

What year are you in? What does your current work xp, course selection, and gpa look like? What are you really interested in?

Hey man you don't need an MFE to work in quant finance actually getting an MFE might not lead to your desired career. Your undergrad degree is just as viable, try to take a couple of programming courses in Python and algorithms & data structures. Also Coursera has some quantitative finance & python for finance courses, you will like it.

Arguably the best quant (Jim Simons) there is comes from Stony Brook and you are bitching about how this uni is not good for you? **uk outta here.

Yeah man, you're really not in a bad spot at all. Going to a non-target isn't that big a deal if you're in a STEM program and are close proximity to NY to network.

Get the best possible grades you can (seriously, study for each course 3+ hours a week, don't skip class), as close to 4.0 as possible.

Start in September searching through linkedin for alumni. Try to reach out to 2-3 people per week. Keep track of all the details in a spreadsheet (there are other threads in the IB forum that talk about networking well).

Try to find any office job you can for this summer (even unpaid). Find any finance/stats/data job you can after your sophomore year, and by the time you're seriously recruiting for internships you'll be a competitive candidate.

If you're interested in becoming a quant, start by picking up a few widely used programming languages on your own (C/C++ and Python/Java/R for example) and start a portfolio and put it up on GITHUB. Start by coding something simple like a simple/compound interest calculator, and work your way up. Having a line on your resume to the effect of "Coded and published 33 programs (10,000+ lines of code) in C++ and Python related to quantitative finance" will definitely prompt a question from your interviewer. This will straight up put you ahead of 75% of other candidates in terms of quant skills by the time your junior year roles around.

Also some of the networking advice isn't necessarily as helpful for tech and QR.

You want to get involved in projects with other students and hackathons. Join ACM or whatever the computer programming club at Stonybrook is. If it's anything like UIUC, there are probably 5-10 clubs just for CS out of the ~5,000 on campus.

Hackathons are your networking opportunity. And the best part is that you get to show up with the product of your work. The cool part about computer science and engineering is that you actually get to build and offer something with hard value at the end of the day-- it's not just "hire me because I know you and we're buddies"-- it's "hire me because I do awesome work and you know and like me"-- much more of the hiring decision is tilted in favor of your skill, creativity, and intellect, and less is tilted in favor of your networking. Frankly, in a perfect world, that is how hiring decisions should be made, and we are a bit closer to that in technology as well as in quantitative research.

Finally, keep in mind that $200,000 is a lot of debt to be avoiding. If you compound that to retirement at 6% post-inflation returns, that's $2.4 million (with a purchasing power of 2016 dollars).

If you want to retire a millionaire, you are making the right move.

Thanks guys.

DON'T "NETWORK". QUANTS GENERALLY DO NOT ENJOY "NETWORKING". I can't generalize to everyone but many of us are socially awkward and many others don't enjoy being sold to.

Meet people incidentally; make friends naturally.

Work on projects, go to hackathons, meet VCs and tech firms. Heck even the banks send people to go judge and mentor these things.

Go to quant finance conferences- I believe Princeton runs one jointly with CMU. Tickets are cheap for students. Do trading competitions-- go to lots of events, especially ones that get you off campus. Bring a friend or two if it's easier.

Add every adult professional you meet in person on LinkedIn.

Deliberately get yourself into situations where meeting new people interested in quantitative finance and trading is natural. I will concede this advice is absolutely horrible if your goal is sales or trading or investment banking, but for QR, for tech, go for the soft sell. It's more effective to be there, bring something of value, and simply be a nice person, rather than run around doing cold calls. You do not have to hit people over the head to get a job in this business- in fact it's generally helpful not to.

Some people might read this and think I'm saying you should stay home or only focus on school and never meet people in QR or tech-- but I am not saying that at all. I am just saying that there is a way to do it where you come from a position of strength and a position where you can clearly demonstrate your value-add, and where you can go for the soft sell on a product that sells itself. It's like coming into a sales call begging people "hey old buddy old pal please please buy my product" vs. coming in with a killer demo that knocks the other products out of the water and letting the product do the talking. For whatever reason, the second approach seems to work better with STEM people, where we sometimes like to think of ourselves as meritocratic.

This is going to be a controversial post to WSO's experienced users, especially those in traditional S&T (and I fully concede this advice would be idiotic if you're going for equities sales)-- just don't hate on me for it unless you are contradicting it from experience as a QR or as a developer.

This tip is going to be more impactful than any finance advice I can give. In life, do what makes you happy and not what others want. Never put yourself in a position where you find yourself blaming someone else. You now need to start making decisions without letting anything hold you back or else all you are doing is limiting your options towards success.

It tends to be easier to move from tech to finance than it is to move from finance to tech.

If you wanted to be a banker or do traditional S&T, I'd tell you to get an internship in PWM or something.

If the goal is to be a quant trader, or better yet a stat arb researcher in 10 years, and you are starting at a state school, the path of least resistance is to start with tech to give yourself some credibility for finance interviews. As a SUNY (or UIUC undergrad), you don't have Harvard on your resume, but if you have Google or Palantir, that's more elite in a sense-- that is a job many Harvardians want, but they have to compete against you in a technical interview, which really levels the playing field. And it may even be tilted in your favor-- you honestly get a better education and get better projects at a school with 300 other CS undergrads than you do at Harvard (but that is another story). So don't be intimidated when you hear schools like Yale and Harvard in that interview-- be excited. Those kids are easier for a smart state school kid to beat.

In some sense, students at large engineering schools (flagship state schools + Stanford + MIT + CMU + Caltech) have a hugely unfair advantage over students at elite private schools like Harvard or Yale or NYU and perhaps even Princeton in getting an excellent CS education. It's easier to find other programmers with the same interests and form projects. There are more students pursuing CS, so there are more professors, and the classes tend to be deeper. There are also fewer liberal arts distractions-- you get to focus on becoming the best programmer, best engineer you can be without getting sidelined by exams on 15th century Moorish architecture.

I would play to your school's strengths. Consider a double major in Stats + CS or Math + CS, and go for the tech sector, but also stay open to programs like MS Strats/ GS Strats, Citadel FTAP, Jump Trading, etc, which may also give you entree into finance and set you up to be a quant researcher after a job switch or two.

But this fall/this spring, your job is to:

1.) Make friends with the smartest and best programmers on campus 2.) Work on projects with them and make a meaningful technical contribution to them 3.) Participate in coding competitions, open houses, hackathons, etc. 4.) Say hi to MS Strats, Citadel, Jump Trading, Goldman Sachs, Palantir, Google, etc when their judges visit your booth.

This summer, you should have fun, maybe find a summer job, but if you have a few hours a week, take a peek at SUNY's programming clubs and see what languages they're using, and get a bit of practice on them.

Next summer a tech internship would be helpful but it isn't a necessity yet. Sophomore-Junior summer becomes more important and Junior-Senior summer becomes critical. Right now the focus should be cool projects that are relevant to a job in tech and perhaps also involve some cutting edge stuff in math or statistics.

If you can intern at a high-quality tech firm before your junior summer, that positions you to have a shot at something like a Citadel FTAP, GS Strats, or Jump Trading, which will get you well on the way to being a QR one day. It may take an MFE, but you'll get there. And a school like Columbia or Princeton would kill to admit a successful GS Strat or Citadel technologist or Google employee to a PhD program, let alone their MSFE program. But for a brilliant guy with a math and stats background in addition to CS, the transition may not even need a master's degree.

Classic

Listen to IlliniProgrammer; he knows what he's talking about.

Come to Fordham U, do the 3-2 engineering program. 3 years of a math major at Fordham, direct automatic and garunteed transfer to Columbia engineering w a 3.3 gpa, and do Fiancial Engineering. They are a good feeder for quants.

So you want to get into S&T or Quantitative trading ? There is a difference.

What is irking me the most is that your goal is to get into MFE and you say "I am stuck with mathematics and statistics". You do know lack of rigor in math and stat is the reason why 80% applications are dumped by top MFE schools.

Getting into S&T does not in any way mean you will be looked at favorably by MFE schools. So what will be ?

> Data scientist > HFT trader / systems developer > Electrical engineer > Anything in machine learning, operations research, industrial engineering, quantitative risk management, bio statistician or any statistician.

In fact all the above jobs prove your mathematical prowess better than S&T which will be the factor that gets you into MFE in turn into a Quantitative trading position.

Now that we have cleared the air. Lets talk about going forward.

> I know it is not the main problem but get out of your house. How do you know whether your parents will let you do an MFE later in life. Be less dependent on them. Take control, it will be the best thing that will happen to you.

>Do Any internship that needs math. I did a research project in my very first year. Second year I did an internship at Deloitte in Analytics. Third year I did software engineering internship at adobe. Last year my own research paper.

> Nail your math degree. Being good at Math is an asset, so master it like the back of your hand. Either applied or operations research, don't study pure.

> Do some research. I wrote a paper with professor at my university about how stochastic analysis can be used to predict winning horses based on their past performance. Quants will love something like this.

> Learn and be good at programming languages / packages like MATLAB, python and C++. Know and use mathematically intense libraries like tensor flow, numPy and sort.

> Do a bit of finance and economics on the side. This can be non-mathematical in fact it should be. Something like corporate finance and investments. Bit of macro, micro. If you have credits left throw in a econometric subject so you can get hands on experience using MATLAB for GARCH models.

> Get stellar grades. Do well in your GRE or GMAT. Throw in an additional GRE subject test when you apply.

Do not be so negative. MFE adcom have much less prestige bias compared to the MBA's in the same schools. I got into Berkeley one year after graduation, I did not go. Took a job with Deloitte consulting full time. I was good at math but did not like it much. So unless you love maths do not pursue MFE.

You will be alright if you work hard.

I did not study in US. My University ranks in top 40 world over. I pulled it of so can you.

1) illini is a smart guy and well versed in this area. Listen to him. 2) I can tell you that life outcomes seem MUCH more deterministic at your age than they will in about 4-5 years. Despite what you think, the US is still, by and large, a meritocracy. 3) Just go do it. Be good at what you do and the rest will follow.

You know Julian Marchese by any chance?

If you do well at something quantitative in college, there is absolutely no reason why you can't do a top MFE program eventually. Hell go to UC Berkeley's MFE page during the day and do a live chat with one of their reps. http://mfe.berkeley.edu/admissions/contact.html

Some of the most helpful people I've talked to, they can tell you everything you would need to accomplish and know to make a good fit for UC Berkeley's MFE program. Just look at the backgrounds of the students there and you will realize prestige really isn't a major factor -- but being competent in a quanty subject is. Also Stony Brook is plenty good enough for you to get a superb education in a quanty subject that companies will respect.

If you have this much passion this early on, and if you use that passion to drive your performance in undergrad, I have a strong feeling you will make it eventually. Don't despair bud, still a lot of ways for you to get where you want to go.

Berkeley is one of the best MFE programs in the country, and Linda Kreitzman is infamous for twisting the arms of recruiters and MAKING people hire students... she is an impressive corporate relations/ program director.

But... dumb money doesn't necessarily know better about Berkeley. If your undergrad was Oxford, Cambridge, IIT, or LSE, I'd say Berkeley would be an awesome choice. If your undergrad was SUNY, and the Equity Sales dude sorting the resume pile was a lacrosse bro from Brown and took a stick to the helmet a few too many times, it can sometimes be helpful to have MIT, Columbia, Cornell, Chicago, etc on your resume.

For tech and QR, there really isn't a huge gap between SUNY and NYU and two years of work experience. But I've found that within the front office, people either judge you based on your intellect or they judge you on your prestige. You will almost certainly run into FO people who aren't smart enough to judge you on your intellect-- so branding isn't that important for quants, but it still matters a bit.