From Technology intern to trading
I am at a target school studying computer science and finance hopefully graduating in the upcoming year. I'm going to apply to join FT into a BB in S&T and was wondering if my background would be sufficient. I'm working as a summer intern as a tech analyst in a BB which is my concern. Initially I took this internship because I was told by a certain someone that programming was extremely useful in his career as a trader (the person worked as a programmer for a short time, got his MBA and now owns a hedge fund in Asia - personal mentor).
Thinking my junior summer was my last chance to expand on that, I took this internship, but it seems that everyone is in consensus that having a back office background does not look good for a front office application. I'm sure this will count against me less since it's only a summer internship but I would still like to gauge my chances... and get some advice on how I should sell myself.
the specs:
major: computer science + finance minor: psychology cum gpa: 3.7 (comp sci gpa: 3.85) internships: currently in a BB tech division supporting a hedging system (Business analyst/Software developer). Previous summers were spent on various industries (mostly in the finance/consulting space)
How is it looking for a FT applicant for a top BB S&T division (NY or HK)? Also, I'm not so great at networking... any advice on how to make approaches/when to make them? (i.e. should I start during information session season?)
Back office to FO trading: it happens as frequently as people win lottery. You could be the lucky one. Just don't count on it because someone else was able to.
OP- target school can mean a lot of different things. The Comp. Sci. "target schools", for instance, are mostly flagship state schools with good engineering programs. If you're studying CS at UPenn, Columbia, or Yale, for instance, it's gonna be kinda tough. Cornell or Princeton- and obviously MIT and Stanford fall higher on the rankings table.
It doesn't hurt to spend a few years as a programmer- it gives you a built-in put option for the next twenty years if there's another financial collapse. I would aim for an analytics or quant development group if possible and make the jump to trading after a few years after doing your CFAs and/or maybe a financial engineering master's.
While you're a quant developer or working in analytics, you need to focus largely on doing your job and being the most helpful guy on the team. After about six months to a year, the front-office guys come to you for something and you are the IT guy who asks the uncannily apt questions about whether the guy wants this data or that data- because that data might be better for a fundamental pricing model for these reasons. Keep doing that for another year or two, apply for an internal transfer, and you've got a whole bunch of guys in the front office pulling for you and/or wanting you to join their group.
A lot of smart programmers realize they should have been finance majors their Junior year, come into IT at a bank- usually into a product specific group- and join the front office after a few years. And if we've got a double-dip, there's a good chance that in three years, you'll wind up with a job that should have gone to someone graduating your year, but he got laid off.
well it was just an internship...
To be honest I'd rather be in finance and I honestly chose to do programming this summer because I decided it would be my last chance to learn a skillset that's worthwhile to have when it comes to being in trading/finance.
And you're completely right. My school's CS isn't good at all and I treat finance as my main. CS is just more mentally stimulating in a school setting compared to finance so I've stuck with it. You mentioned spending a few years in programming, but I don't know if I would enjoy doing it at all. There seems to be an overall dearth of energy... well there isn't any in this group at least.
I feel as though I've been doing things to build myself to become a better trader, not knowing that it'll result in a blacklash and prevent me from becoming one in the first place.
In any case... My first choice would still be to become a trader. I was wondering if I could get some advice on how to go about the recruiting process and what to expect.
i.e. Do full time recruiters strongly favor graduating students that had a S&T summer internship? If so, what would grab their interest as a student without one?
Have you considered some of the smaller shops or even prop shops? From what I've seen, they tend to be a little more lenient on your experiences.
Network with alumni and hope for the best. Worked for me as far as getting S&T final round interviews (failed) with BB IT in past summer coming out of non-target in a tougher than usual recruiting year. If you are still in that bank and have a week or two to go, try to hunt down some alumni working in the bank or in NYC.
A friend of mine did it, but he went from technology to Prop trading :).
tech to algorithmic trading (Originally Posted: 05/29/2011)
Hey all,
I was wondering if anyone had any insight on how difficult it is to transition from being a tech analyst at a bulge-bracket to joining one of their algorithmic trading desks.
Thanks in advance
Do you want to join the IT side or Trading side of the algorithmic trading?
In case of the latter, a transition to S&T is needed first. However, the transition really depends on your current function in IT. It would be a completely different story if you are already a developer for algorithmic trading. (Which I doubt you are, because I have never heard of any of these algo trading developers want to go into S&T.)
If it's the former, meaning you want to be a algo trading developer, then it depends entirely on the pecking order within the IT of that BB.
It is infeasible to advise further with the level of detail you provided.
Technology to Trading (Originally Posted: 05/29/2010)
This has probably been discussed a lot, however I'm new to finance and would appreciate some advice. I have an engineering background and obtained a summer internship at a 'bulge bracket' for a technology position. It's relating to fund derivatives. Would this back office experience count against me if I applied for a S&T position after I graduate?
Also in the same boat and would like to know.
*bump
Your best chance is to nail your internship and apply for an internal transfer to S&T at the end of the summer. You want to cross over as quickly as possible. Though it is possible to transfer over later, the longer you stay in the back office the harder it will be. I know of at least 2 people who were able to successfully transfer from tech to S&T into my BB's analyst class
thanks a ton mate
How to break into trading from Technology in Banks (Originally Posted: 11/18/2010)
Hey, everybody, I am a newbee to this forum. I just got an offer from a bulge bracket bank, which is a technology program for global markets. I suppose I need to work on designing and implementing trading platform for the trader. The thing is that I really want to move to the trading desk instead of just supporting roles. Does anyone know the chance of moving into trading desk from a position like mine? Any advice/discussion is highly appreciated.
Go to a target for your MS and work that network. From some schools they only offer technology for others front office roles and its hard to convince them to place you otherwise.
Thanks for the advice! But I am already a Physics PhD, so I don't want to waste my time on any master degree. Only if there is really no chance, I may choose to go to a top 10 MBA program. The role they put me is so called quantitative associate, but I really want to be a trader. I know hedge funds have quantitative traders but I think so far I still want to place myself within banks to gain more experience. If anyone can share some successful stories, I would like to hear them!
they do tend to classify the more advanced quant degrees into the Quant pool automatically no matter what you say. I have wondered why, is it they assume people with a more technical background have no interpersonal skills and wont be able to speak to clients? Have you tried networking from within? if your in the bank you have a great resource.. just head on over to the trading floor and make friends with the traders, go drinking or whatever, i think more than anything they just want to like who works on the desk since they send so much time right next to you.
kiwiserv, thanks for the advice, I think you are right.
It is a very hard transition to make i believe, but hey you got a much better chance of doing it if you're already in the bank and able to meet & network with the other traders than if you're not.
You need to spend at least two years in the Tech role, then try to transition.
Don't try to do it any sooner. It can be done, but you need to be patient.
Squawkbox，could you please tell me why to wait at least two years? Thanks!
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