Noting the confluence of topics about the baby boomer generation and financial woes of our youth today, I had this nifty chart sent to me today. Many of you may have seen it but it is interesting nonetheless. Basically, this is a chart comparing the CDS’s of European countries against the percentage of males living at home.
Many online blogs and advice sites seem to have a common message which says to not move back home no matter what. There is something to be gained by putting it out there and having to scrape by on your own for a few years while you find solid footing. I’ve even seen articles which point to employers preferring candidates who don’t live at home because they are out on the edge and don’t have the safety net that living at home provides.
Obviously, correlation doesn’t equal causation but I think it raises a decent question. Does living at home create more complacent men who are less ready to strike out into the world? I’ve always struggled to find an opinion on this as I think that moving home can certainly be beneficial until you get a decent job (or during an unpaid internship) but there is a lot to be said for having to strike out on your own and support yourself. What do you guys think? Obviously living at home for a 26 year old man isn’t desirable but is it really as terrible as it is made out to be? Is it contributing to the current financial malaise?
Great post. Although I think it depends on the culture. In certain cultures, kids live with their parents until they get married. In those countries, the % of men living with parents is probably a lot higher, but doesn't mean their economy is down the toilet.
Not only does correlation not equal causation, it may even be misleading. I have a hard time seeing housing arrangements across vastly different cultures having a similar negative effect on output. Now, as for this chart, what do you suppose is the correlation for anyone, male or female, between living at home and being unemployed? And then look at unemployment in the countries listed in the chart. I think that wraps up this question, and then we are back to the same old question of how to boost economic activity.
Interesting chart. This could be a chicken-or-the-egg scenario though. It could simply be that young men are getting crushed in the job market and moving back home.
Does moving back in with your parents sap your motiviation? Fuck yes. I've got friends that stayed at home after graduating high school and it's always the same story. They fucked around for a semester in community college before dropping out, work a dead end job and spend all day playing video games. It's hard to break out of this.
I actually stayed at home and went to CC as well, but stuck with it until I got my Associate Degree and transferred, but I'd say that I was in the minority compared to my peers.
Withstanding what Rambo said, I think men and WOMEN (where is the chart for them) living at home is the result of the current lack of jobs --or a skills mismatch to get current jobs, lack of marriage and affordability of housing. Basically the kids are living with their parent to reduce expenses and proper mate selection is so hard. Kids living at home can contribute to the current economic condition by slowing down household formation which negatively impacts the residential real estate markets.
40-60% still living with their parents in Portugal, Italy, Spain and Greece? I mean.... seriously?
Like someone said above, in this countries people live their parents until they get married or move in with a girl. And that's not 90% because there are many men who work/study in other cities/countries. It's a very different culture than that of the U.S. and I guess it's hard to understand for you guys, but we think the same about you lol.
This is pretty bad. However, I agree with above, this is a chicken/egg thing. They just are trying to sensationalize it. 5 yr CDS vs. male unemployment doesn't make it to the headlines.
I'm 42 and live at home, but I have no idea what a CDS is.
waiting for ANT to come on and rage against lazy eurosocialist limpdicks.
just waiting.
I agree with "the man," correlation is not causation.
I would also add housing problems to the list of possible confounding variables for this chart.
Still, it's interesting
You live with your parents when you can't afford to move out, fewer people can afford to move out when the economy blows, when the economy blows governments have decreased revenues/increased spending both in proportional to GDP and absolute terms, when that happens CDS spreads blow out. I bet you could create one that shows the amount of unemployment above structural unemployment and it would show you the same thing.
I don't disagree with the whole chicken/egg issue and that a lot of this is likely caused by poor economic opportunities in those countries, but I also believe that living with your parents during the time you're supposed to be entering adulthood and beginning to care for yourself will have negative repercussions going forward.
Personally, I lived away from home since the time I entered college. Did a lot of stupid drunk shit and poor choices occur? Definitely. But it also forced me to manage expenses, function independently, and deal with truly bad situations that just aren't likely to occur while living under a solid middle-class roof. By the time I graduated and joined the real world, I was easily able to care for myself.
Human cultures have always had times and traditions to mark the transition into manhood, and that seems to be something that's getting more confused in modern society. I have to imagine that it will be a difficult transition for one of these guys to move from lying on mom's couch to holding down a job, obtaining & maintaining for a home, and caring for a family when it's time for that. That's a change that should be done over time, so you can make up for mistakes as you learn... if people are starting that process at 30, I just see a lot of long term developmental issues for the culture at issue (10 years from now, even if you wiped Greece's debt clean, what percentage of the working age population will actually have experience working full time? Hard to have any kind of productive, stable economy with that)...
Correlation does not equal causation as you acknowledged in your OP.
I live in China where a large number of college graduates continue to live at home despite gainful employment. My understanding is that here it is a combination of culture (young married couples will often have a parent or parents move in to their new homes as well) and practical cost cutting due to prohibitive wage:rent ratios. I don't know an absolute percentage, but in my dating follies I've come across a lot of girls who live with their parents and hold jobs concurrently.
Back in 2004, in economically rosier times, I spent a week with a French family in Antibes and their son (mid 20s) lived at home while working.The dad was predictably a postal worker with few responsibilities outside of smoking cigarettes in his underwear.
Forgive the anecdotal evidence...
I am delighted to see that you put this in your article. I just want to add that a graph like this can be completely spurious. One can draw a relationship between two independent series that have no correlation to each other based on chance. Here, both variables show similar patterns and the correlation is implying a completely unrelated cause-and-effect relationship…sharp analysis.
Its pretty normal over here for people to live with their parents til late 20s
Also this: http://static.flickr.com/54/139092366_ce5b410228_o.jpg
But seriously, surely it's a good idea to live with your parents if you can't afford to get your own place? Even if you can afford to rent, it might be worth living at home a few more years to save up for the downpayment on your own place.
I live at my parents home and I am 35. I just prefer living with my parents and brothers, all together. Living alone = success = the path, is just a stupid mental model. I dont believe in models. If im fine living with my parents all my life, I do it. If i werent, i would live alone. Besides, it makes sense in terms of economies of scale, of having people around and making life more enjoyable. Why isolate myself in a single appartment when i can live surroudned by 6 wonderful people? Who fucking cares if im 45 and still live with my parents? I like it this way. Plus believe me, i have the money to live alone but dont even want to create a family, that's another mental model and i dont want to engage with a lady nor put my wealth at risk. I cant control what that lady will choose to do in the future. She could steal my money. So fuck her, i stay alone forever, enjoy life with my parents and brothers, and when i need ladies, get club bitches. I think that most of you guys have too much shit in your heads about how your life should be, what you're expected to do. Fuck what you're told by others to do, just do what you like the most.
Either you're trolling, or in the wrong place.
It's no longer 1930. Today many women are independently wealthy (ie. have financial independence), make less risky investments than men, and typically bring their own asset base into a marriage. Plus there's such a thing as a prenup, and spousal maintenance works both ways.
But it's just as well dumb girls go for rich guys, because someone with a shred of intelligence would not put up with this guys attitude.
Sources: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-461352/Marry-money-No-thanks-sa… "By 2020, there will be more female millionaires than males. Currently women make up 46% of the 370,000 millionaires in Britain. Barkleys Wealth Management survey of women found only 2.2 per cent named divorce as the source of their money and property. Less than a quarter said marriage was the source, with 83.9 per cent pointed to earnings and business ownership as the main reasons for their affluence.
http://articles.nydailynews.com/2010-06-21/entertainment/27067758_1_ric…
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