Ignoring coffee chat requests from target schools - unfair?
I’m an mba associate who, basic bitch that I am, was non target undergrad and did an M7 mba to get into banking. I work at an EB.
I try my best to do coffee chats for those who ask (which is a lot, especially this time of year) but when i get pings from places like Wharton, Duke, Cornell, etc, I pretty much deprioritize those people vs. the kids hustling from non targets. My logic is that my bank already goes to those schools specifically and hosts events where target applicants have the ability to meet people. Not to mention those kids have so many resources to recruit vs. some kid from a state or patriot league school who is doing this basically by their self.
still, I was chatting about this with a few analysts I’m close with who said that I might not know the whole picture and this is unfair.
thoughts?
me see anti-nepo, me support
.
Tbf anyone reaching out to OP is doing so because they don't have anyone their parent can introduce them to...
Lol
Any chance you're still taking coffee chats?
based
Tbf, why aren't those kids reaching out to alumni?
he said he went to an M7 mba... he is an alum
Oh lol ok
It's a favor to do coffee chats. While it's nice to take them because others did for you, you don't have to take every single one - and if you get a bunch of emails, you simply don't have time in the day to talk to everyone
I think your logic is fine, those students have plenty of alums to reach out to
Deleted - replied to wrong comment
agree
It’s your time and you can choose to spend it with whoever you like. I don’t ignore target kids but def go the extra mile for hungry, high potential non targets.
nice
Love this energy. Good on you mate 🤝
yeah
Are you Australian
don't know if Aussies understand what "midwestnontarget" means
They have more than enough options from their Alma mater.
Talk who you want to talk to, you owe no one anything.
I only do coffee chats with kids from my school or hometown. That’s life.
As someone at a non-target I respect that, I think I’d probably do the same thing if I was in your shoes. On the flip side I’ve reached out to ppl who did go to target schools and were kind enough to chat with me and ended up having great conversations.
Comments full of NON-targets LMAO
People like you are insufferable.
Ok NON-target
Is this the alternate universe version of Smoke Frog?
OP, you are doing the right thing - mad respect. Screw the little entitled target school brats/hardos
Why is a kid who is at a target entitled?
was them getting 1600 on their SAT entitlement (many of them are middle class too, so its not a rich parent thing)?
Was skipping out on parties in high school to ace all tests/study for the SAT entitlement?
Having basically zero screen time as a youth because they were too busy with extra circulars/volunteering?
So now they are entitled?
Statistically, the target student who reaches out to you is far more likely to be rich than middle class lol.
thats funny because im the opposite. I never take coffee chats from NON TARGET students
do you know how hard I worked as a teenager to get into a top school? all the studying, the SAT prep, the sports practices day after day (waking up at 5am to practice before school), the volunteering, always paying attention in class, spending years and years reading and reading, never getting into trouble, and forgoing many social activities to ensure I was on top of my academics.
And a kid from Rutgers (60% acceptance rate) or University of Arizona (86% acceptance rate) wants to chat and just jump ahead of the line here for a spot?
Sorry but you can just submit your resume into the portal with the masses and hope its so stellar that you get pushed to the top. The decisions we make as youth have consequences (getting into an average college). Not giving you a shortcut.
THIS!
We shouldn't be diluting the IB scene with cretins.
Bird-brain, NON-target OP is too dumb to realize this.
That's why she had to get a whole-ass MBA just to break in!!
How does the silver spoon feel? Does it hurt so far up there?
Do you realize that some kids took scholarships to go to non-targets?
why though? you only do undergrad once in your life. and it stays on top of your resume forever. why would you go to a non-target just to save $100k if you're able to get into target school and make $1M+ more over your lifetime than if you went to non-target.
I understand this perception but many people can have a strong work ethic, work hard but still not end up at a target school. Some people don't realize the importance of target schools and some just don't know what finance is early on. You can't know for sure what's someone background, work ethic or how smart they are based on what school they go to. But I understand in the real world we all have limited time and it becomes a process of eliminating people who don't fit the criteria the best.
the truly brilliant do get noticed though. they get 4.0s at ohio state, blow away their professors/alumni, etc. truly brilliant smart people can't help but do productive things - they get too bored otherwise and end up creating things of value. Im not worried about these kids at all (they eventually find their way in and dominate....like Ray Dalio who went to a SUNY school).
Well, if you want to take that tack, I think you could make the argument to ask why couldn’t they get in via their own Duke or Wharton (where I did not attend MBA) recruiting process? Why do they need to go outside the normal channels other than the implication that they were not selected by my bank’s Wharton team?
Totally legitimate take. That being said, college apps are incredibly competitive and it's possible the kid only realized they want to do IB after getting into some school. Case by case you'll find driven kids from both camps.
lol. This is why I'll help any non-target to break in. Makes all the insecure ivy misfits rage.
I wasn't a fan of my alum personally either, and if it gets people this boiled up I'm happy to help the non-target kids when I have some recruiting sway lmao
This is a very fair argument but what you are basically saying is that, if someone wasn’t good enough as a kid, he/she should basically be considered worthless while they attempt to be a better professional?
Hes not wrong. OP's message is "I only take chats from "kids hustling" from non targets". Others agree and mention they only help "hungry no targets" etc.
Do you know who are the REAL hustlers, the kids who are REALLY hungry?
Those that get into targets. They've been hustling and hungry since an early age. Just because you suddenly get deseperate junior year of your average college and "hustle" doesn't mean you are more hungry than some kid that did everything right from age 7 to get into MIT.
And sure, some kids do everything right (perfect SATs, 4.0) and dont get into Yale, but at the very minimum they get into decent semi target schools.
Wow, didn't realize that WSO was attracting overbearing Korean parents that only associate love and affection with external indicators of achievement to the comments section these days...
Ok bro you do you, and OP will do what OP is doing. At the end of the day, the benefits to going to a target are obvious. However, these days, ivy admissions are so slanted towards meaningless criteria that idk if it holds the same separation that you seem to think it does. Furthermore, I (like many people I know) went to non-targets for full-ride scholarships.
Let the comments rage
What about kids who get in at a target but go to a non-target with a scholarship to avoid debt?
I was admitted to UChicago undergrad but my alcoholic parents wouldn’t sign my loan. I couldn’t sign for it myself since I graduated from my public high school at age 17. So I went to a shit tier liberal arts college with their highest scholarship and graduated debt free. While I should in retrospect have deferred my UChicago admission by a year and signed the loan myself, I frankly think forgoing UChicago on my parents’ insistence has ruined my life to this day. That’s especially true due to a-holes like this commenter who adhere to the fallacy that everyone who gets in at a top US college actually goes to one. To this day, a large percentage of people whom I meet in Manhattan think I’m lying about this if I tell them. Far too many people on WSO are oblivious to their privilege and the naive assumptions that may come with having the best parents.
Don't think about it like that. The creme always rises to the top. If you were smart enough to get in, you're smart enough to do as well as any student who went there.
lol you did all that shit, was probably a fuckin dork just for you and a non target to be sitting on the same job LMAOOOO
Nerd. Getting ass and smoking xans > Studying
Ah yes, punishing kids because of the decisions they took when they were 14-17
I see what you are saying but you don't always know what others are going through (for ex couldn't afford target)
I recently saw a non-target resume from a guy who was valedictorian with a 35 ACT. It's not his fault that the IVY's discriminate against Asians.
As someone who is going to be mentoring and working with these future Analysts, why not try and get the best talent regardless of school? Fair or not is irrelevant, this is immature.
.
You may have misinterpreted my post to assume that "best talent" = "target schools". Whereas, my post was meant to infer that "best talent" = "best talent".
Analyst 2 in IB-M&A, Are you joking or are you actually serious?
Honestly? Because if they are reaching out to me from a target school where we have a banking team it means they most likely didn’t get selected by our banking team, else they would already be in the process. So then the question is, with say one hypothetical Time I can give for a chat, do I try and find a kid who was passed over at penn or do I try and find a kid from Ohio who never got a shot in first place?
The level of talent and competition at Penn is much higher than talent at a state school. With the limited number of spots granted to a specific school at a bank, you could definitely find a Penn kid that was “passed over” that still has more talent and the drive necessary to succeed in investment banking.
hilarious how half the people in the comments are from non-targets acting like kids at targets are uber-entitled and advantaged and the other half are kids from targets saying otherwise
Makes me want to leave banking just reading these comments
Take away is target/non-target is not completely indicative if the kids talented or not...
I guess it's legit to deprioritize rather than outwardly just ignore them. Non-target, semi-target, target... you're going to find plenty of kids at each type of school who are very driven or kids who are nepo babies/not driven. There are kids whose parents may work in finance and there are kids who have very little opportunities available to them. There may be some association between seeing these attributes at certain schools, but by no means is it at the very least a strong correlation. Only way to really tell is by getting on the phone with them.
Went to a target, will always take calls from my alma mater.
Tend to not respond to other target outreach, given I doubt they’ve exhausted their outreach to their 1000+ alums and have their own recruiting team. My referral won’t get them into a process if they’ve already been dinged by their school team.
I’ll always respond to anyone with enough in common with me though, disregarding target/non-target
What are examples of things people had in common with you that led to a coffee chat?
As someone who broke in to IB from a non-target that was so non-target companies don't even list it as an option when you apply, I almost never take up requests for coffee chats from anyone that doesn't have anything that they share in common with me, those being:
- College
- High school or the county I grew up
- Played a sport in college, since I'm a former college athlete myself
- Same frat
When I get an email from someone from from a target school like Princeton, I honestly view it as a red flag because they should have hundreds of alumni they can reach out to before they start emailing a random associate at my bank like me
,
As someone who went to a non-target no name school who is now working in IB, I can confidently say that the majority of students from my school were probably equally as smart and hardworking at students from a top school.
The school you went to should not define your ability, intelligence, work ethic or overall personality. Everyone has their own talents and adversity they had to overcome both growing up and while in college.
This is wrong.
Look at your schools average SAT and the average SAT of a target school.
SAT is a very good indicator of intelligence. Period. Sure there are some exceptions (good test takers, people who are brilliant but cant perform under pressure etc)., but its a strong indicator to use.
Its simply wrong to think the kids at Penn State are as smart as the kids at MIT, Harvard, or even Duke. The metrics do not back this up at all.
And as someone who went to a top target, the environment was light years different than a state school. the level of intellectual curiosity of the student body, the seriousness everyone displayed in their classes....zero comparison (I have visited some friends at other schools and it was shocking how unserious the student body was in terms of academics).
I concur. A test that you can retake for an unlimited number of times at age 16 is the ultimate benchmark of intelligence and potential. You're unemployable without a target school.
I think the main point that one can argue is that the average student at target school is smarter than average student profile nationally. However, that shouldn't lead to the conclusion that every student not in target is not smarter than the average student.
SAT is not an indicator of intelligence.
You're telling me I can take an SAT class for 3 months and my score goes from 1200 to 1500 so I'm now 25% smarter?
All you need to get a good score on the SAT is to study for it, not to mention many schools superscore which is retarded.
It's a measure of hard work not intelligence.
Regardless of what the SAT accurately measures, you're ignoring the way averages work. Penn State has 73,000 undergrads across all their campuses. Do you really think that you won't be able to find 200 kids who are smart as someone at an Ivy from a population that size?
.
Didn’t expect patriot league schools to be catching strays on here lmao. Signed, a Lehigh alumnus.
I never take any cold emails from NON-target (or stupid) schools because:
1. NON-targets dilute the IB talent pool
2. Usually, NON-targets are too stupid to make it into IB
3. Other retards, like BIRD-BRAIN OP, do the Make-A-Wish charity work (I.e., have coffee chats with these morons) already
Unfair?
IB is not an intellectually difficult field. I can teach my dog how to do a DCF
.
Average NON-targets:
The Target Man’s Burden
My VP every time I send in slides for review lol
I went to a joke of a nontarget school and broke in, did ~150 networking calls and there was a shocking number of Ivy League kids (even HYPS) who were generous and helpful on networking calls. But - no stern kid ever responded to any of my emails, even when it was for group placement. I want to pay it forward and am willing to talk to basically anybody who’s above a basic standard of grades/resume if I have capacity, regardless of whether they went to Yale or the University of Mississippi. But, when I see a stern kid, email gets automatically deleted. It’s not being mean, it’s pattern recognition.
honestly as someone who goes to a target I agree— nontarget kids already have to hustle 100x harder, it’s nice to have people rooting for them
Thank you for doing your bit to dumb down IB.
Essentially non target affirmative action
I like to just accept coffee chats from people with an affiliation to my school and not any target schools. Every school has their own network of alumni they can coffee chat so I just prefer to help out people from my Alma Mater!
I attended to a top 3 engineering program undergrad and top 2 mba according to people on this site. Personally, the mba didn’t matter, engineering dwarfs all of it imo. Anyhow, the dumbest person on my team by far, went to two targets for undergrad and mba (Columbia) or whatever this m7 business is some dweeb came up with. This person cannot even formulate a proper slide and their writing is at the level of a non-honors student in highschool. If you cannot write properly (or build a slide), I don’t give AF where you graduated, you should keep it moving. There are good targets and good non targets. The lines are getting blurred as of late. Often, if I have a feeling someone is speaking like a gifted amateur in an interview or has some weakness it usually plays out in the first few months.
Not bashing but wtf is the patriot league and is Trump U part of it?
be mindful of students from cornell, georgetown, michigan, and usc - these schools take many transfers from community colleges, most of whom are from low income backgrounds and did not have the best upbringing or resources.
these kids know an opportunity when it’s presented to them, and they will be rockstars at whatever firm accepts them, so i would just give an extra look at them and try to find the diamonds in the rough.
Let’s just play devil’s advocate for a second: A kid with every advantage available to them wastes high school goofing off, partying, and spending their parents money. They end up with a subpar GPA and SAT/ACT score, and are forced to go to a no-name non-target state school as a result. Meanwhile, a first-generation child of immigrants does everything right, works hard academically from the day they are born, while holding down a job to support their family, leading to stellar grades, scores, and an admission to Harvard. Who deserves a shot more? Moral of the story: not every non-target is a deserving underdog, not every target is an entitled asshole; not every non-target is necessarily the best person. Behavioral questions exist for a reason. Get to know people. Go on a case by case basis. Don’t judge a book by its cover.
Some high performers in high school have to go to non-target schools for in state tuition, because maybe they can't afford the targets out of state tuition. Some don't want to go into massive debt if they don't have family money to fall back on.
I mean. I transferred from a non-target, no-name state school to a top university (not trying to brag, lol). The difference in opportunities was massive, and that fact, combined with the experience I had, made it worth every cent of the six figure loans I took out. My parents helped as much as they could, but ultimately it was my responsibility and I paid off most of my debt. It ultimately depends on what your priorities are (i.e. maximizing upward mobility and career opportunities), or just minimizing debt and getting whatever job you can, and living on that. Having seen both sides of the coin, I genuinely feel for kids who may not he in the best situation in this regard, and I’m not averse to helping out when (and if) I can. Nevertheless, if you come from a non-target, it is that much harder to justify a hire, and the odds are that much more stacked against you. Just how the world works.
Hilarious bait post, but no, you are not morally obligated to get coffee with anyone you don't want to.
Went to a target myself and I approve of you not prioritizing when target kids reach out.
I think if you only have so much time, it's perfectly fine to filter requests based on who you would like to talk to. I filter too e.g., more likely to respond if from my school, more likely to respond if their background seems more relevant for the role etc. I think that's pretty normal unless you have enough time and desire to chat with everyone.
If ivies want to look down on state school kids, then don't ask me for help. I have helped kids from ivies but I'm generally focused on helping people who A) need it and B) help themselves.
I don't discriminate, I ignore coffee chat requests from everyone.
Joking aside - I have yet to receive a request that sounds like it was written by an actual human and not chatgpt.
Exercitationem qui perferendis numquam nobis consequuntur ducimus et. Asperiores incidunt est quidem excepturi.
Architecto eligendi numquam consequatur rerum. Ullam consequuntur asperiores quam error. Nam nobis ipsa suscipit sed. Praesentium quis in vel consectetur. Ratione qui atque quis qui iure quasi.
Mollitia qui ratione sit libero accusamus atque sed. Nesciunt quaerat porro aspernatur et doloremque. Excepturi esse eos molestiae. Qui tempore necessitatibus sapiente.
See All Comments - 100% Free
WSO depends on everyone being able to pitch in when they know something. Unlock with your email and get bonus: 6 financial modeling lessons free ($199 value)
or Unlock with your social account...
Aut ut tenetur tempore ex aut necessitatibus exercitationem omnis. Molestiae magnam at non consequatur impedit. Esse deleniti quidem enim atque et qui dolor. Alias voluptatem rerum voluptas molestias. Sit rerum quo blanditiis et in non odit tempora.
Et et voluptate magni ullam tempora soluta. Aliquid ex aut architecto aliquam aut aut et. Eos minus aspernatur soluta ipsum animi amet dolor. Dolorem qui harum esse rerum eaque animi animi.
Aut facilis sequi voluptas harum expedita odio. Voluptas aperiam deleniti nihil optio qui nisi minima.
Reiciendis illum qui dolores cum doloremque et ratione. Suscipit dolorem saepe adipisci ab et quaerat non. Libero officia quo sunt aut. Voluptatibus molestiae animi aut id.
Voluptatem temporibus est impedit est earum veniam occaecati. Quasi ipsam blanditiis voluptas voluptatem et voluptatem. Delectus ut mollitia velit ex. Veniam eum aut qui necessitatibus est sapiente reprehenderit. Magnam aspernatur ad voluptatibus similique maiores.
Omnis placeat eaque eos rerum molestiae modi neque. Veritatis possimus et voluptas pariatur sed omnis. Numquam fuga debitis mollitia architecto odio corrupti.
Iste illo doloremque autem hic nesciunt ipsum. Suscipit laudantium deleniti autem beatae illum quae.
Velit harum perspiciatis autem exercitationem fuga modi. Error voluptatibus consequatur cum eos mollitia. Sunt vero ipsa rerum dolor enim. Quibusdam dolor illo voluptas dolor sed.
Ut excepturi est eligendi omnis. Officia quos impedit consequatur ad. Aperiam cumque ipsam et perferendis.
Omnis nostrum omnis possimus id sunt. Earum impedit velit facilis quae illo culpa. Omnis illo deserunt dolore praesentium voluptatem neque odio.
Placeat excepturi nisi ratione ipsam. Repellat aut aliquam natus dignissimos ad. Aut mollitia qui labore omnis quis libero voluptas.
Omnis ex quas nihil omnis. Ut corrupti ut molestias voluptates voluptas unde dicta. Dolorem reiciendis ea ut molestias eum hic sunt. Quae corporis natus fugit qui vel.
Incidunt adipisci sint eaque. Nobis provident sunt consequatur nihil sed. Modi nostrum commodi quos mollitia et nam autem. Ducimus repellat quia quod neque quaerat.
Sed id vel doloremque explicabo velit. Possimus fuga porro ut voluptatibus nesciunt.